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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #151  
Old 2009-11-19, 10:38pm
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I don't think that Pam's questions were specific to Devardi. They were meant to guide people towards an understanding of problems that can occur in ALL glass. And there are issues with pretty much all manufacturers of glass....no one disputes that.

At no time did she insinuate that the country of origin had anything to do with any problems.
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  #152  
Old 2009-11-19, 11:03pm
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I respectfully disagree, Sherry, but should know better than to be cheeky in a controversial thread like this. My apologies for that. Hopefully this will just die off and everyone can go about using the brand(s) of glass that they prefer / want to try, without the kind of unpleasantness that's gone on here.

It would be nice if overall, threads around here could stay more 'on topic' with the OP's intended subject instead of digressing into something else.
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  #153  
Old 2009-11-20, 12:25am
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Ok, I didn't read everything what was posted. I just wanted to see if there are more problems with certain color combos. I'm sorry in what direction this thread went. I thought this forum is there for a exchange of experiences.

I never did mean to hurt anybody or try to hurt a business.
I like the colors of devardi glass, no question and the service was always more than excellent. I like Natasha and do not want to hurt her and I will still order from her.

Natasha, please take my apologize.

So, this thread is closed!! Please!
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  #154  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:18am
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If Natasha is reading this:

I'm only one person, but I'm sure there are dozens more like me that love the glass and are really excited about it. I plan to order much more in the future, and I sure was doing some browsing on your website last night for the frits. I'm such a frit ho!
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  #155  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:27am
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Great answers, Luna!!! You were thinking only of the physical as opposed to the chemical.

1. What makes glass rods shocky? Air in the rods.Take it a step farther, why is the air get in the rods

2. What causes glass to need to be worked at lower temperatures or in the back of the flame? same thing? Having to work glass cooler can be a remedy for shocky rods, but think of chemicals that if added or taken away could cause this.

3. What makes a glass stiffer even though it has the same coe as another glass? I believe Tink & John said "viscosity", & that's from the chemical makeup of the glass. Good, so dig deeper.

4. What causes a glass not to flow so that it cannot be shaped in the flame? Lack of heat, or lack of viscosity And what causes this to happen?

5. What is "burning" glass really and why does it happen? Too much propane in your flame.Very good, almost there. Now why does an excess of propane do this on some glass and not others?

6. How can the chemical composition of glass be changed by adding heat? I'd have to ask a chemist, but I'm sure they'd have an answer. Or you could do the research yourself and find out the reason.
7. What causes glass to foam? Think along the lines of the batching process.
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  #156  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:38am
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I look forward to seeing you post this information in all the moretti/effetre/vetrofond issues threads, Pam.

You can start with the Achy Brakey Artichokey thread

I'm not going to post in there since I've never used the color. That doesn't seem to be an issue for you, so I'm sure they'll all look forward to your input-and perhaps everyone will just switch to BE, then there will be no need for these threads.

(somewhat tongue in cheek, somewhat cranky-my 8 year old AND my husband are both home today, plus we're having a repairman for our freezer and another guy repairing something else so it's just too many damn people in my house on a Friday in the day time.)
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  #157  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:40am
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Why would she be posting in another thread? Here are the questions do you know the answers or is it that it is of no interest to you likes to make glass stuff?
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  #158  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:52am
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Quote:
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Why would she be posting in another thread? Here are the questions do you know the answers or is it that it is of no interest to you likes to make glass stuff?

I've already stated answers for several of her questions in previous posts in this thread. I'm not digging it back up. Kalera and I went through some of them pretty extensively.

I feel that the questions are intended to be devardi specific, and as Pam has not used Devardi, nor seen it as far as she's posted either in rods or beads.

I do not feel like playing what I believe is a game with her. Since she edited Luna's responses the way she did, it really feels like a game to go back to her initial posts along the "devardi is worthless" song and dance.

ETA-why she would be posting in another thread-perhaps she has actually touched glass made by those manufacturers? Has seen or used it? Might have some actual working advice to *help* someone with a problem?
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  #159  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:59am
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Exactly. Why haven't we heard any explanations on some of the other glasses that are having problems? There are posts reporting the same stuff as here. Please let us know the answers to those questions also. Thanks you.

Jack
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  #160  
Old 2009-11-20, 7:59am
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If anyone wants to take a detour from this thread for a little while and see something positive about Devardi glass, then mosey on over to the thread I started in the Gallery.

I don't know if anything is posted yet, but I'm going to mosey on over and see....
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  #161  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff View Post
I've already stated answers for several of her questions in previous posts in this thread. I'm not digging it back up. Kalera and I went through some of them pretty extensively.

I feel that the questions are intended to be devardi specific, and as Pam has not used Devardi, nor seen it as far as she's posted either in rods or beads.

I do not feel like playing what I believe is a game with her. Since she edited Luna's responses the way she did, it really feels like a game to go back to her initial posts along the "devardi is worthless" song and dance.

ETA-why she would be posting in another thread-perhaps she has actually touched glass made by those manufacturers? Has seen or used it? Might have some actual working advice to *help* someone with a problem?
Very observant of you. The questions are devardi specific, but pertains to any glass that you find these faults in. If you feel this is a game, then I am sorry for you. Glass is a very demanding material to work with and when I started it was necessary to learn more about it than, obviously, glassworkers feel they need to know today.

And perhaps you don't read other threads that much, but whenever there is a technical question that I think I can add information to or be helpful, I do. When is it going to be more about glass and less about personalities? I don't believe I have slammed anyone in this thread. I try to keep posts to the point of the discussion and not about individuals. I find when people start denigrating individuals all information that could be gleaned from the thread is lost.

As to the opinion that I should use this glass before I make comments, that is just ludicrous. Everything I need to know about this glass is listed on the Devardi site and I am assuming that what is written there is truthful. If you know anything about glass then that site tells you very important things about the material they are selling. If a company tells me that their lipstick is great, but you need to keep it at no higher temperature than 78 degrees or it will melt, and don't put much pressure on the tube because it will crumble, also there have been reported allergic reactions to the lipstick itself, I am probably not going to try it. I can determine from that information that it is not a good lipstick. And just to let you know, I have tried literally dozens of different glasses many years ago and I did learn lots from what was wrong and what was right about them.

When you are learning to read you start by using a book with simple words that easily form complete sentences. "See Jack run." You don't start off with something that says, "Under their respective headings we have endeavored..." When you start out with glass beadmaking you learn how to make a round bead by using the flame to make it round. Hopefully you use a glass that is simple to use and makes it easier to learn the basic techniques involved in making beads without having to make a lot of "adjustments". Most of us learned on Effetre, or Moretti as it was called when I started. It's a very stable glass whose base colors work very reliably. You learn about heat control and gravity. As your education in glass continues, you may branch out into glass that is more demanding, but you learn the basics and build upon that. You also learn to be concerned about the quality of the art that you are creating. You learn things like cracks due to annealing or incompatibility and you learn to tell the difference, and you learn more and more technical information that can have an affect on your artwork.

A head glassmaker once asked in conversation, don't all glass beadmaking artists make sure they are using quality glass before creating their art? Unfortunately I had to answer no, and it has bothered me a lot ever since. We as glass beadmakers need to know more than the techniques used to create our art. We need to know the materials and why they react the way they do.

So, now, go ahead and scream at me in all caps and call me names and insinuate that I have ulterior motives for posting in this thread. I've been on glass forums far to long to be easily insulted. My motive is and has been to encourage glass beadmakers to think for themselves, to learn about their materials and their art.
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  #162  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:39am
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Originally Posted by J&M View Post
Why haven't we heard any explanations on some of the other glasses that are having problems? There are posts reporting the same stuff as here. Please let us know the answers to those questions also. Thanks you.

Jack
There are posts right now concerning other glasses that people are having problems with. It would be nice if you could help them out too.

Thanks - Jack
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  #163  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry View Post
I don't think that Pam's questions were specific to Devardi.
Apparently they were according to her.

Jack
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  #164  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:45am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J&M View Post
There are posts right now concerning other glasses that people are having problems with. It would be nice if you could help them out too.

Thanks - Jack
Pam has helped people extensively with glass questions over the years, including many, many posts on Bullseye, on torch chemistry, and a wide variety of other subjects. It's a simple matter to go to her profile and look at her earlier posts if you want access to that information.

Or use the search tool.

You being new does not put anyone under obligation to post what you want to know.
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  #165  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:51am
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Thank you Lisi!!!! I'm working on getting pictures taken to post on the thread you started in the gallery. And I too am getting another order ready for more Devardi glass.
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  #166  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Very observant of you. The questions are devardi specific, but pertains to any glass that you find these faults in. If you feel this is a game, then I am sorry for you. Glass is a very demanding material to work with and when I started it was necessary to learn more about it than, obviously, glassworkers feel they need to know today.

And perhaps you don't read other threads that much, but whenever there is a technical question that I think I can add information to or be helpful, I do. When is it going to be more about glass and less about personalities? I don't believe I have slammed anyone in this thread. I try to keep posts to the point of the discussion and not about individuals. I find when people start denigrating individuals all information that could be gleaned from the thread is lost.

As to the opinion that I should use this glass before I make comments, that is just ludicrous. Everything I need to know about this glass is listed on the Devardi site and I am assuming that what is written there is truthful. If you know anything about glass then that site tells you very important things about the material they are selling. If a company tells me that their lipstick is great, but you need to keep it at no higher temperature than 78 degrees or it will melt, and don't put much pressure on the tube because it will crumble, also there have been reported allergic reactions to the lipstick itself, I am probably not going to try it. I can determine from that information that it is not a good lipstick. And just to let you know, I have tried literally dozens of different glasses many years ago and I did learn lots from what was wrong and what was right about them.

When you are learning to read you start by using a book with simple words that easily form complete sentences. "See Jack run." You don't start off with something that says, "Under their respective headings we have endeavored..." When you start out with glass beadmaking you learn how to make a round bead by using the flame to make it round. Hopefully you use a glass that is simple to use and makes it easier to learn the basic techniques involved in making beads without having to make a lot of "adjustments". Most of us learned on Effetre, or Moretti as it was called when I started. It's a very stable glass whose base colors work very reliably. You learn about heat control and gravity. As your education in glass continues, you may branch out into glass that is more demanding, but you learn the basics and build upon that. You also learn to be concerned about the quality of the art that you are creating. You learn things like cracks due to annealing or incompatibility and you learn to tell the difference, and you learn more and more technical information that can have an affect on your artwork.

A head glassmaker once asked in conversation, don't all glass beadmaking artists make sure they are using quality glass before creating their art? Unfortunately I had to answer no, and it has bothered me a lot ever since. We as glass beadmakers need to know more than the techniques used to create our art. We need to know the materials and why they react the way they do.

So, now, go ahead and scream at me in all caps and call me names and insinuate that I have ulterior motives for posting in this thread. I've been on glass forums far to long to be easily insulted. My motive is and has been to encourage glass beadmakers to think for themselves, to learn about their materials and their art.

Please compare your second paragraph to your last paragraph, and also show me where I have done anything you said in the last one.

You quoted me and it sure looks like you are replying to me. If not, could you please specify that?

Check out the diamond clear and the artichokey threads, please. They could use your input as well, I'm sure. I hope you are just as thorough as you are in this one.
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  #167  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:57am
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Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
Pam has helped people extensively with glass questions over the years, including many, many posts on Bullseye, on torch chemistry, and a wide variety of other subjects. It's a simple matter to go to her profile and look at her earlier posts if you want access to that information.

Or use the search tool.

You being new does not put anyone under obligation to post what you want to know.
I'm not "new", and it's not me that wants answers Kalera. All I wanted her to do was to take a moment to help others right now that have posts asking questions about glass. She's been so kind as to answer some questions here on this thread... why doesn't she do the same for the other current questions? That's all.

Jack
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  #168  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:58am
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I'm not "new", and it's not me that wants answers Kalera. All I wanted her to do was to take a moment to help others right now that have posts asking questions about glass. She's been so kind as to answer some questions here on this thread... why doesn't she do the same for the other current questions? That's all.

Jack
Can you say "jinx" when it's the same sentiment, but worded differently?

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  #169  
Old 2009-11-20, 9:59am
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Thanks Kalera, but Jack has his own agenda and obviously it has nothing to do with learning about glass.

Jack, I post on threads I see that I think I can add to. If answers are already being given that I believe fulfills the needs of the opening poster, then there is no reason to post. Plus, believe it or not, people are allowed to post on the threads they want to post on. For the past while I haven't had much of an opportunity to post as my father has been in and out of the hospital twice this month and yesterday I had to take him to an emergency office visit to a specialist who determined that what was happening had nothing to do with his specialty and I am sitting here waiting for a return call from another doctor. It's very annoying, but I try hard not to bring my irritation into threads.
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  #170  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:02am
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I'd also like to point out, for people who are newer to the scene, that many of the questions about this glass arose when the sellers first started marketing it, claiming that it was "more saturated" and "higher quality" than the other glass on the market. They also claimed that it was older... I'd love to have screenshots of their old auctions, because they claimed that it was centuries-old, making the current claim that it's new to the market and never previously available contradictory to their own original claims. Furthermore, I SAW the Bill of Lading, I KNOW what company it comes from, and yes, they DO sell glass rods and have been since before Dan and Natasha started selling it as Devardi.

It's little things like this that originally made me question this glass and the sellers, and their own behavior when asked about it only served to validate my cautiousness. They are sweet if you're buying from them, sure, but the way they treated me and others for asking questions, and the extremely sketchy way in which they "answered" those questions, means that I will never trust them. Even if they started selling US-made glass. The worst thing is that they went back and deleted their abusive posts from the original thread, so you can't even go back and see what I'm talking about. Their shills now deny that ever happened, but I and many other people were there, and saw it. They accused many of us asking questions of working for other glass vendors and having ulterior motives.

The sheer quantity of accounts who come to these threads and never post anywhere else on the forum also sketch me out. There is no other glass on the market that has a dedicated bunch of groupies who only post in threads related to that glass, for the purpose of defending or promoting a specific seller... or, I should say, there hasn't been lately. Not since Ornela.

Maybe that answers some of the questions about why there are so many suspicions around this glass. There's history to it. That is why people react so vehemently to posts about problems with it.

Use it if you want, that's your business. But I don't think it's reasonable to make claims that it's of equal quality to Effetre or Vetrofond and expect glassworkers with 20+ years of experience using and MAKING glass not to refute those claims.
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  #171  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:03am
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  #172  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:04am
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It seems that you're the one who has an agenda here Pam. Why on earth would I? I just kindly asked for you to help out some fellow lampworkers that have questions on other current threads. You've had plenty of opportunity to post here on this particular thread.

Jack
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  #173  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:04am
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I have recently gotten caught up on the Devardi discussions here and elsewhere.

I have no agenda and I have no opinion about this glass since I haven't even seen it, much less used it. But I will admit the extreme defensiveness I've seen from Devardi supporters has put me off a little bit. I am not really all that anxious to try it at this point. I'll keep reading, though, as the discussion hopefully evolves.


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  #174  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:04am
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I'm not "new", and it's not me that wants answers Kalera. All I wanted her to do was to take a moment to help others right now that have posts asking questions about glass. She's been so kind as to answer some questions here on this thread... why doesn't she do the same for the other current questions? That's all.

Jack
Oh, then you already know how to use the search feature and look up Pam's many posts here. So... why are you demanding that she go post in other threads right now?
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  #175  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:06am
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  #176  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:07am
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Demanding?????? wtf??? Where did I demand anything? Good grief Kalera.

Jack
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Old 2009-11-20, 10:12am
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Demanding?????? wtf??? Where did I demand anything? Good grief Kalera.

Jack

You have asked in a number of posts now for Pam to go to some other threads and posts answers there. I'm not sure why you're so insistent that she post in those other threads rather than the ones she is currently active and engaged in, but I think that if you are eager to see evidence of her helpfulness across a wide array of subject matter you should use the search function and look up her post history.
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  #178  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreajane View Post
I have recently gotten caught up on the Devardi discussions here and elsewhere.

I have no agenda and I have no opinion about this glass since I haven't even seen it, much less used it. But I will admit the extreme defensiveness I've seen from Devardi supporters has put me off a little bit. I am not really all that anxious to try it at this point. I'll keep reading, though, as the discussion hopefully evolves.


Andrea
Serious questions for you:

If you find a product that is 1/4 the cost of others, and works at least half as well, would you use it?

If you wanted to continue using that product, and it seemed like a lot of people who had never used that product were very negative about it, calling it worthless and saying to throw it away and never use it again, might you respond saying you liked it?

I've had a few very unpleasant responses made to me in this thread. I have not posted in kind. I don't post on any other forums. I only read here and WC.

Devardi is like a toddler. It can be really, really amazing stuff. It's highly imperfect in form. If you are willing to spend some time playing and working with it, you can have some great results. If you expect it to do what you want, every time, you need to forget using any other glass than bullseye-which is like the full grown lady of glass
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  #179  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:14am
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pam pam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff View Post
Please compare your second paragraph to your last paragraph, and also show me where I have done anything you said in the last one. I didn't say you had done any of those things. Please reread the sentence.

You quoted me and it sure looks like you are replying to me. If not, could you please specify that? I was replying to you. The first paragraph is in answer to "I feel that the questions are intended to be devardi specific, and as Pam has not used Devardi, nor seen it as far as she's posted either in rods or beads. The second paragraph was in response to your ETA. The third, fourth and fifth paragraphs are in response to your statement that you believe I need to use a glass before passing judgement on it.


Check out the diamond clear and the artichokey threads, please. They could use your input as well, I'm sure. I hope you are just as thorough as you are in this one.
I'm sorry if you feel my responses are relevant to what you stated.
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  #180  
Old 2009-11-20, 10:16am
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Now your just being silly and argumentative. I will not go there Kalera.

Jack
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