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  #1  
Old 2013-05-24, 12:58pm
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Default How to make a holding tank for my oxygen concentrator?

My oxygen concentrator just arrived at my door and I was planning on doing a holding tank set up with it but, I cant figure out how I am going to accomplish this. I was going to use Trey Cornettes tutorial on this but the link is broken which makes me wonder if he took it off because this is dangerous. Heaven forbid I don't want to blow myself up lol. Any thoughts on how and if I should do this? I just layed 500.00 strawberries down for this oxygen concentrator and I would hate to ship it back...
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  #2  
Old 2013-05-24, 1:14pm
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I didn't like having a holding tank. While it could give me bursts of extra oxygen, it caused my flame to fluctuate as pressure was built or depleted in the tank, so that every time I adjusted my flame, I had to adjust it again 30 seconds later, and sometimes the flame had gone to reducing and messed up what I was working on by then.

If you can find Trey's tutorial, it's as safe as any are going to be, and safer than any that use a compressor - not anything I'd worry about.

Last edited by dusty; 2018-08-05 at 8:29am.
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  #3  
Old 2013-05-25, 4:19am
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^^^ that can be prevented by learning how big a flame you can have with your oxycon....and never going bigger then that. don't use more then you have in reserve.
holding tanks are just about a must have with some oxycons.
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Old 2013-05-25, 4:37am
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I have used holding tanks with an forced air and propane set up. My solution was... go to home depot etc and get one of those tanks that you can fill with a compressor and carry around, to fill tires, blow off a side walk etc etc. Those have all the fitting etc already in place, now you just need to find the reducers and hose barbs or B fittings to get to your hose size. easy peasy....

when I used a holding tank in the past it was to calm the flutter caused by the mechanical blower, and I needed a blower relief valve, so I could blow off extra air, keep pressure constant, and not have back pressure on my blower. This was for a neon shop.

But the ease of using the tank as described above doesnt change
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  #5  
Old 2013-05-25, 9:24am
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I made my own out of 4" sch. 40 PVC pipe and 2 caps. Drill and tap for 1/4" pipe each cap, and glue them on. The pressure rating of the pipe is 133 psi, way more than any torch will use. The nice part is that you can cut the pipe any length you want and mount it up under your bench out of the way. I have 5 of these with 5 ogsi 20 lpm oxy-cons. System runs great with no fluctuations because I tied them all together.
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  #6  
Old 2013-05-25, 9:32am
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Thanks Carl, I was thinking of your set-up when reading this thread. If possible, a pic or diagram would be super helpful. I know....you have got to be kidding???
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  #7  
Old 2013-05-25, 11:25am
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A holding tank is not dangerous because it doesn't fill up like a regular oxygen tank. It is just there to regulate the flow. I have an industrial oxygen generator and it's a must to have the small holding tank, or the flame will "breathe". Found this out when I made the mistake of ordering my machine and not ordering the tank for it. Got the tank 2 weeks later and hooked it up, then I never had a problem again.

Are you sure you need a holding tank for your concentrator?? What kind is it? Because holding tanks are usually needed for oxygen generators and the higher pressure concentrators. In other words, you would not need one for the standard 5lpm concentrator. If it is 10lpm or higher, then it is an option, but it's not really necessary unless you have a flame that constantly fluctuates.
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  #8  
Old 2013-05-25, 11:29am
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I used Trey's tutorial and have been using my tank for a couple of years without incident. It's just a matter of changing out a little hardware so that you can hook your hose to the tank. I don't remember exactly what parts it required, but I can post a few pics, if you think that'll help you figure it out.










My recollection is that I had to replace the part that's teflon taped (and tape it).
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Last edited by artsyuno; 2013-05-25 at 11:46am.
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  #9  
Old 2013-05-25, 11:50am
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Thanks guys! I think I figured it out. Just one catch though...How do you prevent your oxygen levels from fluctuating?
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Old 2013-05-25, 11:50am
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Oh, forgot something - if you have just received this concentrator, I think it would be best to try it out before you worry about needing a tank. You may find that you don't need it and you can use the money for more glass. Plus you could save yourself from the aggravation of trying to figure out how to hook one up.

Other than my generator which is an Airsep AS-12A, I have also tried the standard 5lpm concentrator as well. It wasn't enough "juice" for my Bobcat because I was so spoiled by the generator, so I gave it away to a newbie friend to get him started. But I do remember that it had a nice steady flame. I have also used a friend's torch set-up which was a GTT Cricket and an M-15, which is an 8lpm machine. It worked wonderfully by itself with no need for a holding tank.

What torch do you have and what concentrator did you buy?
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Last edited by Lisi; 2013-05-25 at 11:59am.
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  #11  
Old 2013-05-25, 11:54am
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Oxycons breathe. That causes the fluctuation. The tank should help with that. Keep in mind that the tank will only do that when you're not using your oxy full out. It's the excess collected in the tank that'll fill in the gaps for you.
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Old 2013-05-25, 11:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephtheterrible View Post
Thanks guys! I think I figured it out. Just one catch though...How do you prevent your oxygen levels from fluctuating?
Sometimes it's not the oxygen that is causing the flame to fluctuate, but rather, it's the propane. Often this happens temporarily after you have hooked up a newly filled propane tank. I'm not sure exactly why it does that, but it's a pain in the butt and I just have to remind myself to be patient and the flame will even out after an hour or two of work out of that tank.

Sometimes in cold weather it happens, and what I do is shut everything down, including the regulator on the propane tank, bleed my line, and start over. It usually make it right.
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Old 2013-05-25, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7 View Post
^^^ that can be prevented by learning how big a flame you can have with your oxycon....and never going bigger then that. don't use more then you have in reserve.
holding tanks are just about a must have with some oxycons.
That wasn't my experience. I had trouble going from a flame much smaller than my concentrators could handle, to one even smaller than that, as after 15 or 30 seconds, the pressure would increase in the tank and turn the oxygen up, or vice versa if I was increasing flame size. Happened also, of course, when exceeding the concentrators' limits.

I work with a lot of small flames, though, so a slight change makes a big difference - for others it might not be as noticeable.
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Old 2013-05-25, 12:28pm
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I've had my flame bounce a bit but I've never noticed a big pressure change with a smaller flame. I'm using a pair of Regalia's wyed together though, and they're supposed to have a more even flame. I think my flame bounce is more of a make-up air issue than an oxygen one. If I crack my studio door open in addition to my other make up air, I get less of it. I run both Regalias anytime I'm going to use my outer flame at all. The bulk of the time, I'm using just the inner, so I have way more oxy flow than needed most of the time and I use varying flame sizes.
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  #15  
Old 2013-05-25, 12:38pm
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I noticed flame bounce (without the tank) on a single concentrator, but never when running a pair in tandem. I'm using two 5lpm 10psi DeVilbiss machines.
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Old 2013-05-25, 12:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
I noticed flame bounce (without the tank) on a single concentrator, but never when running a pair in tandem. I'm using two 5lpm 10psi DeVilbiss machines.
That would provide a regular flow simply because both machines are not cycling at the same exact time. Makes sense.
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  #17  
Old 2013-05-25, 12:52pm
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Yea I'm using a carlisle cc burner but, I will only use my center flame with this generator. I have already set up my holding tank. Think I just need to tinker around with it to see what she can handle...
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Old 2013-05-25, 12:55pm
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Old 2013-05-25, 1:01pm
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And I am definitely noticing breathing with this generator and tank in tandom.
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Old 2013-05-25, 1:05pm
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Oh! The torch you have with the EX-15 would definitely benefit from use of the holding tank. Now I understand.

My holding tank is one of those portable upright ones. It doesn't hold much of course, but it was totally necessary to regulate the flame. If the power shuts off on me, the flame last only about 30 seconds. lol

I would show you a picture of mine but I'm on a Kindle and I can't edit them to upload onto web pages.
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Old 2013-05-25, 2:00pm
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I posted these in your other thread, but I figured I would do it here too.

This is the holding tank for my Airsep AS-12A generator. I didn't put the hardware together, they did it for me. I wouldn't have had a clue! Hopefully this will help.

(sorry about the dust and cobwebs!)



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Old 2018-08-02, 3:18pm
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Default Can there be rust in a storage tank?

Hey guys,

I have been building my oxygen system for sometime now and I have have run into a problem with storage tanks. I purchased a used tank that is good for storing Oxygen the only thing is it has a bit of rust inside. I cleaned it out the best I could and have done several things to get As much out as possible. Though through out all my efforts I find that there are still some small pieces in there and stuck to the wall. Is this something I should be very concerned about when building my system or is it not that big of a deal since I will have a particle filter on the end before my torch. Itís been tough for me to find brand new tanks that do not have a compressor attached to it all the rust out. Though threw out all my efforts I find that there are still some small pieces in there and stuck to the wall. Is this something I should be very concerned about when building my system or is it not that big of a deal since I will have a particle filter on the end before my torch. Itís been tough for me to find brand new tanks that do not have a compressor attached to it any. Any info on how clean my tank Should be will be greatly appreciated. I am just about to set my tank and system up and have all of the parts and Iím only wondering about this one issue. Thanks again Ahead of time and I hope you guys are having a great day.
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Old 2018-08-02, 6:35pm
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I have not set up such a tank system myself.

But I will share some thoughts on the issue with you.

First is the idea of residual oil contaminating the inside of the tank.

Oil and very pure oxygen goes boom very badly, even worse under pressure.

Think World War II aircraft bomb about the same size as the tank.
They don't just crack open, they turn into instant shrapnel at near the speed of light for all intents and purposes.

Next thought; Rust.
Rust is made up of ferrous metal and OXYGEN.

If there is rusty metal inside the tank filling the tank with purified oxygen is going to 'encourage' more rust and adding pressurized oxygen will most likely speed up the rusting process.

If you are lucky it MAY only produce a pin hole to allow the pressure to escape.

As for getting the rust out I have seen videos of machine shops loading the tank with sharp edged gravel and them rotating the tank for several days and nights, rinsing and reloading the rock once a day until the rinse water runs totally clear but they were only salvaging the tank to use for compressed air.

If you plan on running a tanked system at anything like the 2300 PSI that Homefil units put out you will be better off buying used oxygen tanks from retiring welders and such and then having the tanks re certified by a retail welding gas distributor where they open the tank by taking off the valve stem and visually inspect the interior then overhauling the valve stem and pressure testing it to DOT standards and certifying in writing that it meets code requirements.

Or you could just buy certified tanks from a welding gas supplier ( the cheaper /safest route) and tie them together with high pressure hose.

Particles of rust getting through to your torch in a high pressure oxygen tank system are really the least of your worries.
All of the above is assuming you are putting together a high pressure system.

If, however, you are just putting together a low pressure 15 PSI system so you can dump a high volume of low pressure oxygen into your torch for a two minute run to heat soak a large marble or something then you can 'get away with' a thoroughly cleaned, rust free, clean metal tank that has had the interior well coated in a rust preventive paint.


As I said I am not thoroughly knowledgeable on building tanking systems but I have been trained in the Navy on safety disasters and their 'after action analysis' for 17 years back in the 1980s and 90s.

Your mileage may vary.
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Last edited by Speedslug; 2018-08-02 at 6:40pm.
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  #24  
Old 2018-08-03, 6:47am
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Very well said Speed.
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Old 2018-08-05, 8:27am
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Default Not a high pressure tank.

Speedslug,

First off thanks for the great info and time you took to answer my question. I will take the time to make sure I get a nice tank as to be more safe than sorry. Even thought the tank is just a low pressure storage system for my m-15 oxy generators that will only be pressured to 40psi I still feel that the tanks needs to be in 100% best condition. I hope you enjoy the day and appreciate your time and energy.

Surfman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedslug View Post
I have not set up such a tank system myself.

But I will share some thoughts on the issue with you.

First is the idea of residual oil contaminating the inside of the tank.

Oil and very pure oxygen goes boom very badly, even worse under pressure.

Think World War II aircraft bomb about the same size as the tank.
They don't just crack open, they turn into instant shrapnel at near the speed of light for all intents and purposes.

Next thought; Rust.
Rust is made up of ferrous metal and OXYGEN.

If there is rusty metal inside the tank filling the tank with purified oxygen is going to 'encourage' more rust and adding pressurized oxygen will most likely speed up the rusting process.

If you are lucky it MAY only produce a pin hole to allow the pressure to escape.

As for getting the rust out I have seen videos of machine shops loading the tank with sharp edged gravel and them rotating the tank for several days and nights, rinsing and reloading the rock once a day until the rinse water runs totally clear but they were only salvaging the tank to use for compressed air.

If you plan on running a tanked system at anything like the 2300 PSI that Homefil units put out you will be better off buying used oxygen tanks from retiring welders and such and then having the tanks re certified by a retail welding gas distributor where they open the tank by taking off the valve stem and visually inspect the interior then overhauling the valve stem and pressure testing it to DOT standards and certifying in writing that it meets code requirements.

Or you could just buy certified tanks from a welding gas supplier ( the cheaper /safest route) and tie them together with high pressure hose.

Particles of rust getting through to your torch in a high pressure oxygen tank system are really the least of your worries.
All of the above is assuming you are putting together a high pressure system.

If, however, you are just putting together a low pressure 15 PSI system so you can dump a high volume of low pressure oxygen into your torch for a two minute run to heat soak a large marble or something then you can 'get away with' a thoroughly cleaned, rust free, clean metal tank that has had the interior well coated in a rust preventive paint.


As I said I am not thoroughly knowledgeable on building tanking systems but I have been trained in the Navy on safety disasters and their 'after action analysis' for 17 years back in the 1980s and 90s.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 2018-08-05, 2:01pm
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One other thought that probably wont apply since you are going with a low pressure system is that the valves on pressurized oxygen tanks will leak oxygen out around the valve stem unless the valve is all the way open or all the way closed.

If you only open it enough to get a good reading on the gauges the oxygen gas will leak out and you can have an empty tank in a few hours even if you shut off your torch.

I only mention it here because of the topic and that detail rarely gets talked about elsewhere.
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