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  #1  
Old 2012-11-10, 7:45am
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Default Inspriation from tutorials/other work

I have what is possibly a loaded question. I hope it doesn't start a huge argument...

I often see other lampworkers' work, or tutorials, and I am inspired by it. Now, I don't sell my beads any more - it is only a hobby for me; therefore I simply cannot afford to buy tutorials now. Money is just too tight to justify it.

However, even when I could buy the occasional tutorial or two, I really love a challenge and often try to figure out the method on my own. I often do this with work I see posted in the gallery, etc. It is always with my own twist, or style, to make it my own. But I always hesitate posting things like that here, or on FB. I fear I will be accused of copying, or stealing someone's idea, particularly with a very unique idea.

Am I justified in my feelings?
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  #2  
Old 2012-11-10, 11:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnehlers View Post
It is always with my own twist, or style, to make it my own.
Personally, I say "post away". It might be preferable to say, "inspired by so and so's work" if it is recognizable as derived from there.

Darrell
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  #3  
Old 2012-11-10, 11:40am
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Yes, I would say that it's always appropriate to mention whose work inspired you, and if you were able to figure out how to create an effect through trial and error without following a tutorial, there's nothing at all wrong with that!
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  #4  
Old 2012-11-10, 12:25pm
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Thank you! I would always credit the inspirational person - I think that is a must. I have just seen so many people criticized and accused of different things that it has made me hesitant to show my work. I appreciate the feedback.
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Old 2012-11-10, 3:00pm
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I've asked permission to 'have a go' at certain techniques, if there's no tutorial to my knowledge.
I don't, however, ask them how, unless that info's offered.
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  #6  
Old 2012-11-11, 8:13pm
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Yup, I have beads that are definitely inspired by other people. I always say, inspired by "so and so" and no one has ever accused me of copying or whatever.
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Old 2013-03-15, 1:01pm
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I agree with everyone! Especially with your own twist on it~ That means you're learning and adding something. Good for you!

I absolutely hate it when people copy a persons tutorial beads and then sell the beads at bead shows. I know several people who do this- not good for all of us who work so hard at original glasswork.
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  #8  
Old 2013-03-19, 8:17am
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It seems there's lots and lots of shared inspiration sharing in the LE gallery. I agree that it's appropriate to give credit where credit is do even though I rarely see a mention of whose work is being attempted. I differ on the tutorial opinion though; I think they're like buying a recipe. If you pay for it, why can't you use it? The person selling the tutorial is doing it to make money, the person paying for it is too.
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  #9  
Old 2013-03-19, 9:32am
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I don't think there is a glass worker out there whose designs I didn't outright copy for personal learning and skills. I've made two laughable Kim Affleck seahorses. I've made Ayako Hatori style frogs on jellyfish. I've made miniature sloppy versions of Charles Lowrie's sea turtles. The list is literally endless. I didn't sell them. I didn't even post pictures of them, but I made them. And I'm not sorry I made any of them. I learned so much from those efforts. It made me a better beadmaker.

Amazingly enough, with as much as I actually do try to copy everything I see, the only time I've ever been accused of copying was totally unintentional. AND, I was just working on a new free tutorial for Soda Lime Times and the latest issue came out with pictures of some beads that were like 90% similar to the tutorial I am writing.

I try to copy on purpose and it turns out bad. But boy am I ever great at copying stuff on accident. LOL

Anyway, just a long way of saying that copying or emulating to learn isn't a bad thing. Copying on purpose to undercut someone or to profit from someone else's hard work is a bad thing. I would expect anyone who purchases a tutorial from me to make lots of beads that look just like the one in the tutorial. But then it would start to evolve into something of their own. That's the whole idea. Learn the skill...then make it your own. Some people do it, some people don't, but I don't spend any time worrying about whether they do or not. I sold the tutorial. They are either going to expand on it or keep it at face value. I doubt my opinion of it matters, they are going to do what they are going to do.

~~Mary
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  #10  
Old 2013-03-19, 9:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoki View Post
It seems there's lots and lots of shared inspiration sharing in the LE gallery. I agree that it's appropriate to give credit where credit is do even though I rarely see a mention of whose work is being attempted. I differ on the tutorial opinion though; I think they're like buying a recipe. If you pay for it, why can't you use it? The person selling the tutorial is doing it to make money, the person paying for it is too.
The idea that those who purchase tutorials are somehow forbidden to use the techniques they learn is a myth; unfortunately it's a persistent myth. It crops up every so often, and when it does, those of us who write tutorials attempt to set it straight.

I don't know of ONE tutorial writer who has EVER told the purchaser that they are not "allowed" to use the techniques that they've learned. Still...the myth pops up again and again.

Please show me one, just one instance of a tutorial writer who has 'forbidden' the purchaser to make and/or sell the work resulting from the learned technique. I have yet to see that happen.

This is what I tell those who learn from me from tutorials...classes...whatever. Learn the techniques. Have fun. Sell what you make. I don't know of one tutorial author who doesn't share that basic philosophy, although some may phrase it more eloquently
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  #11  
Old 2013-03-19, 10:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry View Post
The idea that those who purchase tutorials are somehow forbidden to use the techniques they learn is a myth; unfortunately it's a persistent myth. It crops up every so often, and when it does, those of us who write tutorials attempt to set it straight.

I don't know of ONE tutorial writer who has EVER told the purchaser that they are not "allowed" to use the techniques that they've learned. Still...the myth pops up again and again.

Please show me one, just one instance of a tutorial writer who has 'forbidden' the purchaser to make and/or sell the work resulting from the learned technique. I have yet to see that happen.

This is what I tell those who learn from me from tutorials...classes...whatever. Learn the techniques. Have fun. Sell what you make. I don't know of one tutorial author who doesn't share that basic philosophy, although some may phrase it more eloquently
Well said Sherry. It's rather annoying to see the subject come up again and again. You buy the tutorials you make the beads if you like, sell the beads or throw them out, whatever turns your crank.LOL! I think the problem lies in those who do not properly read the copyright info at the beginning of the tutorial.
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  #12  
Old 2013-03-20, 4:59am
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I understand this and agree...however, my question was referring to instances in which you don't buy the tutorial, but rather attempt the technique on your own.
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  #13  
Old 2013-03-20, 8:01am
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Great thread.

I just always think about how the masters (i.e. Raphael, Michaelangelo, et al) became the masters by copying the masters. It's how it's always been done. And, that's where we all start - copying the round bead.
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  #14  
Old 2013-03-20, 11:39am
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Sorry to get away from the specific question in this thread, but I wanted to respond to the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry View Post
The idea that those who purchase tutorials are somehow forbidden to use the techniques they learn is a myth; unfortunately it's a persistent myth. It crops up every so often, and when it does, those of us who write tutorials attempt to set it straight.

I don't know of ONE tutorial writer who has EVER told the purchaser that they are not "allowed" to use the techniques that they've learned. Still...the myth pops up again and again.

Please show me one, just one instance of a tutorial writer who has 'forbidden' the purchaser to make and/or sell the work resulting from the learned technique. I have yet to see that happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sislonski View Post
Well said Sherry. It's rather annoying to see the subject come up again and again.
There are lots of reasons this pops up from time to time. And while I've never purchased a beadmaking tutorial that discouraged people from selling what they make, there are plenty of tutorials in other industries that do discourage it, so those merits of specific beadmaking tutorials are bound to get confused from time to time.

Plus, just because no tutorial author has stepped forward to say they discourage it, doesn't mean it hasn't existed at some point. I don't know anyone who would want to come on a thread and say "Yeah, I say that people can't sell beads made with my tutorial" and open up that can of worms. And buyers of tutorials wouldn't always feel it's appropriate to post quotes from tutorials they've purchased.

(For what it's worth, I have heard artists express something to that effect when teaching classes though.)

Plus, there are tons of statements around the boards similar to the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by karrina310 View Post
I absolutely hate it when people copy a persons tutorial beads and then sell the beads at bead shows. I know several people who do this- not good for all of us who work so hard at original glasswork.
So sometimes when people disagree, like Keoki, they're responding to those kinds of statements, not trying to accuse individual tutorial authors of saying they discourage selling.
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  #15  
Old 2013-03-20, 11:55am
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Question TUTORIALS

I am new to lampworking. Do any of you know where there is a tutorial on making a ribbon stringer? I've been trying to post a request for it in "New Posts" and can't even figure out how to do that. How lame is that?
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  #16  
Old 2013-03-20, 12:46pm
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There was one here, but now it's a broken link.

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showth...rainbow+ribbon
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  #17  
Old 2013-03-20, 8:03pm
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Shirlann, the way I was shown is to make a flat lollipop, then heat both side till it glows (but doesn't lose it's shape). Then grab an edge with your tweezers and pull, it will pull into a ribbon. The rainbow one above was a bit more complicated, I do know how it was done though so I can try and diagram it for you in a pm (you can also get stripes by lining stringer on the lollipop)
Sorry to go off topic, that's just a quick answer.
Let me know if you want more info
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  #18  
Old 2013-03-20, 9:23pm
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This thread has a link to a video tutorial of Heather Trimlett doing a ribbon cane.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=151464
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  #19  
Old 2013-03-20, 9:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damselfly View Post
Sorry to get away from the specific question in this thread, but I wanted to respond to the following:

There are lots of reasons this pops up from time to time. And while I've never purchased a beadmaking tutorial that discouraged people from selling what they make, there are plenty of tutorials in other industries that do discourage it, so those merits of specific beadmaking tutorials are bound to get confused from time to time.

Plus, just because no tutorial author has stepped forward to say they discourage it, doesn't mean it hasn't existed at some point. I don't know anyone who would want to come on a thread and say "Yeah, I say that people can't sell beads made with my tutorial" and open up that can of worms. And buyers of tutorials wouldn't always feel it's appropriate to post quotes from tutorials they've purchased.

(For what it's worth, I have heard artists express something to that effect when teaching classes though.)

Plus, there are tons of statements around the boards similar to the following:



So sometimes when people disagree, like Keoki, they're responding to those kinds of statements, not trying to accuse individual tutorial authors of saying they discourage selling.
You have been sharing your largely negative views on tutorials and tutorial writers and their motivations/practices on this forum since 2008. Oddly, you've remained anonymous, at least since 2008. (Anonymous to some, that is.) I will never 'out' anyone, so no worries; you can be assured of that...you have my word. Despite your evident disdain for those of us who author tutorials, I hope you will realize that as a group, we tend to be rather an ethical and generous bunch. No doubt you will have examples....even baseless speculation that will disprove that.

Having said that, I respectfully decline to debate you publicly when I am at such a disadvantage in terms of accountability for my words.
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  #20  
Old 2013-03-20, 10:10pm
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If you are trying to copy to better understand technique without plans to sell your copies that is totally acceptable. When I teach classes I want my students to pick up the technique and make it their own and if this means copying the design I've taught several times to better understand the technique then I'm totally cool with that. It's when they directly copy a design and put it into their production line and sell my designs that I actually take offense. Technique is for everyone, designs are an individuals intellectual property.
That being said. I believe when you purchase a tutorial it goes towards purchasing a design, kind of like purchasing a shirt pattern it is meant to be reproduced with variations(maybe the writers should disclaim wether it gives you rights to the design or just the technique) tutorials are no replacement for an actual workshop in terms of technical understanding of what the glass is doing whole executing a particular technique.
I am a firm believer in spreading the wealth of glass knowledge as far as it can reach, but I also believe that individualism and creativity in design is also essential.

In short it's ok to copy to learn, just don't profit from your replication. Take what you've learned and use it to round out your individual design pallet.
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  #21  
Old 2013-03-21, 5:06am
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Mary Lockwood (Moth) has an excellent tutorial on stringers, including ribbon.


Maybe I should be more specific in my question. This is what prompted it. I saw truegems' rose bud beads. I thought they were beautiful, but not my style. However I examined them and speculated on how she created the rose buds themselves. Then, I took this and made my own rose bead, much more my style (please excuse the bad picture):




So, not copying hers, but using what I believe to be her technique to make my own version. While I suspect roses and other flowers have been made this way in the past, and it is not a difficult technique to determine, my concern is in how I came about the technique. I hope that makes sense. And as I said, only an example.
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Old 2013-03-21, 8:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherry View Post
You have been sharing your largely negative views on tutorials and tutorial writers and their motivations/practices on this forum since 2008. Oddly, you've remained anonymous, at least since 2008. (Anonymous to some, that is.) I will never 'out' anyone, so no worries; you can be assured of that...you have my word. Despite your evident disdain for those of us who author tutorials, I hope you will realize that as a group, we tend to be rather an ethical and generous bunch. No doubt you will have examples....even baseless speculation that will disprove that.

Having said that, I respectfully decline to debate you publicly when I am at such a disadvantage in terms of accountability for my words.
Although I fail to see why this is relevant, I will say I remain anonymous for personal reasons unrelated to this forum.

I also do not believe my views are "largely negative"; my overall opinions about uses of tutorials are pretty consistent with yours. Neither do I have any disdain for tutorial writers. I have purchased several and have only had wonderful experiences with them.

My entire point was that while you (and other writers on this forum) have been very consistent and outspoken about your personal expectations, there are differing opinions on what's acceptable, both within the community and within the industry as a whole, so there will continue to be discussions about this. It's not aimed at any specific tutorial writer, nor any specific tutorial.
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Old 2013-03-21, 4:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnehlers View Post
Mary Lockwood (Moth) has an excellent tutorial on stringers, including ribbon.


Maybe I should be more specific in my question. This is what prompted it. I saw truegems' rose bud beads. I thought they were beautiful, but not my style. However I examined them and speculated on how she created the rose buds themselves. Then, I took this and made my own rose bead, much more my style (please excuse the bad picture):




So, not copying hers, but using what I believe to be her technique to make my own version. While I suspect roses and other flowers have been made this way in the past, and it is not a difficult technique to determine, my concern is in how I came about the technique. I hope that makes sense. And as I said, only an example.
I think I understand what you're asking; when you see a bead and you say "I wonder how..." and then you experiment on your own and come up with a way to achieve a similar effect, what is the most gracious way of navigating the question of whether to give credit, and how to give credit. Especially if there is a tutorial for sale on the technique/style.

In my opinion, if you experiment and solve a problem or come up with a way of achieving a certain look on your own, it is legitimately your own solution; however, the experimentation was inspired by another person's work (or even by a historical work) so it is gracious, although not necessary, to mention that the first time you post your new work. Your work is, like your roses, almost certainly going to take on its own look and sometimes not really resemble your inspiration source at all; for example, my dragonlarva beads were partially inspired by Kim Affleck's seahorses.
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  #24  
Old 2013-03-25, 7:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I think I understand what you're asking; when you see a bead and you say "I wonder how..." and then you experiment on your own and come up with a way to achieve a similar effect, what is the most gracious way of navigating the question of whether to give credit, and how to give credit. Especially if there is a tutorial for sale on the technique/style.

In my opinion, if you experiment and solve a problem or come up with a way of achieving a certain look on your own, it is legitimately your own solution; however, the experimentation was inspired by another person's work (or even by a historical work) so it is gracious, although not necessary, to mention that the first time you post your new work. Your work is, like your roses, almost certainly going to take on its own look and sometimes not really resemble your inspiration source at all; for example, my dragonlarva beads were partially inspired by Kim Affleck's seahorses.
Yes, that's exactly it. Thank you, Kalera.
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Old 2013-04-15, 12:02pm
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I have spent my life as a lampworker. Over 60 yrs now. The glass arts have been in my family for generations. I hand my skills down just as they were handed down to me. I am currently teaching my great nephew and some others in the family. I have made and will be making more, video tutorials for anyone to download and keep free of charge. Currently there are about 5 up on the site. You may download these. you may keep these. you may study these. I will be making more soon. The newer ones will include making marbles, making various off mandrel figurines, and blown glass mini vases etc.
Here is a link to the site.
https://vimeo.com/59742340
Let me know if they help you any.
Wayne
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Old 2013-04-28, 7:34am
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Thank you Wayne for posting your videos/instructions. Loved watching you make the striped fish and frit tutorial. Very generous of you!
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  #27  
Old 2013-04-30, 6:41am
Janie Janie is offline
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Thank you again, Wayne - enjoyed your fish tutorial also. Particularly liked that notched catch-all bowl beneath your torch. And what an impressive torch it is too! And all the birds chirping in the video was a nice touch.
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Old 2013-05-10, 10:10am
Reenie Reenie is offline
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Why do you all take classes? To learn a new technique for the day and then not make any beads? Or do you take classes to learn something that you love and then apply them to beads you make to sell? Isn't that the same thing as tutorials? Someone is selling you their knowledge of what they made. Your supposed to learn and use that technique...right?
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Old 2014-03-14, 10:30pm
Nighthawk Nighthawk is offline
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I give away most of what i make and smile when i see something i think i came up with out there. (Like two people could never explore and come up with the same item ) I do feel for those trying to make a living at making glass, but there dont seem to be that much of it going on where i am. and i dont think the art of it can go on without someone passing on what was given to them. ...... just a thought.
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