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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2012-07-11, 2:55pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 25, 2008
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 10
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which greens encase?
I am working my green boro stix on the surface, and still my work is cracking.
advice?
Ive seen marbles with green in them, so i know it can be one.
I dont encase my sparkle green, but i thought boro stix would be ok.
suggestions?
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2012-07-11, 3:35pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Bennington, VT
Posts: 1,776
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idk the answer to your question, but it's good to know not to encase greens! i'm starting more boro (got the boromax chem guide with big asst of color), but most of it hasn't arrived yet.
thanks!
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2012-07-11, 3:37pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grama Tortoise
I am working my green boro stix on the surface, and still my work is cracking.
advice?
Ive seen marbles with green in them, so i know it can be one.
I dont encase my sparkle green, but i thought boro stix would be ok.
suggestions?
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How is the torch adjusted when you are working the green? Oxidizing? Reducing? How are you supplying oxygen to the torch? Flame chemistry is often critical with Boro.
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2012-07-11, 4:06pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: Scappoose, OR
Posts: 1,445
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I've encased Northstar Evergreen without any problems. Neutral flame. Here's what their website says about it:
"A neutral flame is the best when working this color but can be worked in practically any flame without fear of discoloration. It works well for encased applications. It is great for stringer applications and thin blown work."
Good luck!
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Angela Kane To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. -One of a kind boro frit blends!
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2012-07-11, 4:25pm
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Hobby Junkie
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Join Date: Dec 08, 2009
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 1,967
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NS experimental green #5. It's a gorgeous Kelly Green especially if you layer it over some white. Look up John Kobuki's marbles. It's the green he uses (and how I found out about it).
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Cori C-R
PS - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
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2012-07-11, 6:47pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Suffolk County,Long Island, NY
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Haven't seen much on here regarding surface working greens, but there's been a fair amount about encasing it, especially in marbles. What I've learned is that Glasstronix green (ABR) is the almost unanimously agreed choice for that, and NS experimental is also great. I made some flower and fish details (surface work,un-encased) with the experimental green though and got a lot more blue with it.
Still can't get over the soft glass koi you showed me at Wheaton Village 2 yrs ago - wow!
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2012-07-11, 7:21pm
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
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How long did you garage it? Some greens will shift if held at temp for too long.
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-Tom
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2012-07-12, 5:42pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 25, 2008
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 10
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Thanks, everybody! I so appreciate the input.
Thanks, George! Thanks for the compliments.
I have been looking at the manufacturers specs, and they say the greens are made to anneal at a hundred degrees below the other colors - but it shouldn't matter if they are annealed ... for ... Eleven hours. Per inch of glass.
Does that make sense? Tom you said the reverse. Am I looking at info thats ten years old?
Northstar reccomends four hours at 1050, two hours at 950, two hours at 800, etc on and on.
!!?? does anybody actually do that?
I know Wes Fleming does that, but he is trying to prevent disaster from striking his tee tiny hair sized details on his superfine bugs. But even for my fish, I've never had to anneal my soft glass any more than two to six hours, including the ramp down.
Is this just a Boro fact of life, I never knew about?
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2012-07-12, 5:45pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: The Rocky Coast State!
Posts: 6,620
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India green encases well.
The experimental green is a hoot to play with. Encase a white and pull it into a stringer. You may get green and you may get blue. Then hit the flame again and it could change colors... it's fun to play with and does encase well.
Sue
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Sue Walsh
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and the present is a gift.
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2012-07-13, 6:17am
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Sith Lord
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2010
Posts: 19
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I have good results with jade and forest from NS, they did well clearing up issues from the past w/ encasing their greens, I still always have trouble with transparent greens though so watch out for them (esp the ones with copper, that will reduce to red)
Getting cased green to survive requires a good kiln cycle, cross that strain point nice n slow
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2012-07-13, 9:27am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 25, 2008
Location: Suffolk County,Long Island, NY
Posts: 168
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I would dare say most, if not almost all boro workers don't get all wrapped around the axle with that much annealing science - I know I don't. But then again Cleo, I know someone who actually joined a koi club just to find out what colors to use on her fish - lol!
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2012-07-13, 6:55pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 25, 2008
Location: Ijamsville, MD
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Oh George!
Of course Koi coloration is absolutely vital, and everyone should know that a Kohaku should never have markings past its nostrils, and a showa must have markings past its nostrils.
Perhaps I should judge that there is obviously an opening in the boro world for Crazy Annealing Chick. There aren't many boro roles left, everything is taken, mostly. Planet Guy is taken, Super Imploding Dude, and IncredaImplosion Girl. So I may just go out and get a superhero costume, for Crazy Annealing Chick, before someone else beats me to it.
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2012-07-13, 8:55pm
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grama Tortoise
I have been looking at the manufacturers specs, and they say the greens are made to anneal at a hundred degrees below the other colors - but it shouldn't matter if they are annealed ... for ... Eleven hours. Per inch of glass.
Does that make sense? Tom you said the reverse. Am I looking at info thats ten years old?
Northstar reccomends four hours at 1050, two hours at 950, two hours at 800, etc on and on.
!!?? does anybody actually do that?
I know Wes Fleming does that, but he is trying to prevent disaster from striking his tee tiny hair sized details on his superfine bugs. But even for my fish, I've never had to anneal my soft glass any more than two to six hours, including the ramp down.
Is this just a Boro fact of life, I never knew about?
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Annealing isn't an exact science, but it's usually 15 minutes per 1/4" at the strain point, and you really want a similar amount of time on the other side of it.
The problem with greens, is that if they sit too long and too hot the metals start to separate from the color causing a COE shift, leading to incompatibility and that horrid crackle. That's why they recommend annealing them at a lower temperature, but encourage you to add a little extra time to compensate. 1050 just happens to be "too hot" for greens and sparkle colors to sit at for a long period of time.
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-Tom
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2012-07-16, 6:30am
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Marbles, dude, Marbles
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2007
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
Posts: 653
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I've been using NS forest green exclusively for the past 8 years or so for the leaves in my flower marbles. NEVER a crack! I use the forest green straight or with lines of other colors layed down on it to add some 'autumn' to the leaves. NEVER a crack!
When I first started I used NS Jade Green, and it cracked every time, so I switched to forest green. I use Jade Green on the outside of the marble in dot patterns-never a problem.
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2012-07-16, 1:16pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 952
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borobar greens are pretty infamous for cracking. they are really tough, inside or outside.
the glasstronics green/green bars/india green........definitely the unanimous option. it works great everywhere.
evergreen and forest green are MUCH better than they were 10 years ago. both seem to work just fine. you just have to slowly, but completely, melt the color in. it really doesn't like uneven thickness with it's counterparts, nor over heating.
ns jade was reformulated a few years ago, and has brought much better results since. deep encasement seems to still be an issue though.
GA has the new greens, Shamrock and Tree Hugger. they seem to be about the same as Forest Green as far as workability.
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2012-07-16, 6:36pm
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Member
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Join Date: May 03, 2008
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 90
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Cleo,
I don't use boro sticks, well I used them for some wig wags and beads once or twice, the colors don't stretch well, that's why I don't like them.
I have encased lockness, green pearl, and clover chameleon, paparatzi (sp?) and experimental green w/o cracks in beads and pendants. I didn't think to have you ask ABR Dave, he knows his glass!
Julie D.
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2012-07-20, 1:43pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 23, 2007
Location: Portland OR
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Lots of people have success with TAG Mighty Moss... FWIW
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~Jenny
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"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice there is." ~ Chuck Reid
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2012-07-21, 5:24pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 25, 2008
Location: Ijamsville, MD
Posts: 10
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Tom:
Oh! I get it, the incompatibility is a change that happens during annealing.
Thanks so much, I so need this info! Knowledge just makes all the difference.
Dave @ ABR :
thanks for the thorough run down! I have my shopping list!
Julie:
Now it makes sense why your annealing scheduel works so well, briefer is better at the higher temp.
Thus armed, I go again into the studio!
Cleo
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