|
Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2011-06-24, 8:57am
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
Coe compatibility
hello , I am so sorry for all of my questions that have probably been asked at some time before. But as I am out hear reading everything I come up with new questions daily. Todays question is about glass I know a HH can't burn Boro , but can burn 104 , what other glass can I use that the HH can melt and is compatible with 104 ? Thanks in advance for all the help it has been confusing but fun to start getting some basic supplies together : )
|
2011-06-24, 9:17am
|
|
Tweedle Dumb
|
|
Join Date: Jan 16, 2009
Location: Dolphins are just gay sharks.
Posts: 1,934
|
|
There are 4 major coe's. 33, 90, 96 and 104. Then there is Satake... That one is less common and I think is in the 120's.
You will be able to melt 90, 96 and 104. But it is wise to only work with one coe in one bead. The exception being sparse amounts of 96 on top of 104. If you add too much, you will get cracks. I think you can also use a tiny bit of 90 on top of 96, but I have no personal experience with that combo.
33/boro, you CAN melt on a hothead, but it is like watching grass grow. You will have a hard time achieving the vibrant colors that boro is known for on a HH. It needs lots of oxygen to work properly.
__________________
Jamie Lynne (aka Bitty) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. <Click For My Latest Murrini!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. <Click! For Pandora Style Beads!
|
2011-06-24, 9:46am
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
|
|
I would not mix different COE glasses at all if you intend to sell your glass. Furthermore, COE is not the only factor contributing to whether two or more glass are compatible. "Getting Away With" this time is not the same as "OK to do". If you mix there will be residual stress in the glass that cannot be removed. Some of the 96 compatible colors formulated for furnace working are actually in the 85-87 range and I have had pieces that used these with 96 COE clear check badly after years. Generally clients get upset if that piece you sold them self destructs.
|
2011-06-24, 9:50am
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
Thanks I probably won't mix glass I was thinking maybe frit ?and mostly I am interested in other glass I can melt with the HH torch so I can start buying some supplies : )
|
2011-06-24, 10:24am
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 2,023
|
|
???
Frit = Glass
|
2011-06-24, 10:31am
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
I am totally New Larry ,lol I guess I won't use other glass I will keep ALL the glass I use the same coe : )including frit???? : )
|
2011-06-24, 1:52pm
|
|
FireBeads
|
|
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Running Springs, CA
Posts: 787
|
|
A lot of the frit you will find out there these days is 96 coe. It's widely used on 104 coe beads as surface decoration and it generally works OK. What makes it OK despite the coe difference is the viscosity. Buy a little and give it a try. I wouldn't recommend encasing it. I was reluctant to use it for years but have since relented and have used it extensively with no cracking. Maybe I get a different result from Larry because of the size of my beads.
|
2011-06-24, 1:57pm
|
|
Nikki Haverstock
|
|
Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
|
|
You might benefit from getting a book that would cover all the basics. They can give you a good understanding of the basics that you can then fill in with questions.
|
2011-06-24, 2:53pm
|
|
Lampworkaholic!
|
|
Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
|
|
96 Coe in general is the most viscous glass to melt generally speaking. Although counter-intuitive, it is "softer" than 104 Coe glass, again speaking generally. That is the reason there is some "forgiveness" that allows it to work with both 104 and Bullseye in small amounts, up to 20% on the surface and very small amounts encased. There are some exceptions, colors like orange are less "stretchy." Experiment, test, have fun.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
|
2011-06-24, 3:03pm
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
Thanks I woould only be using a small amount of the frit with the 104 on a small bead . And thanks Polgarra I do have books I just thought I could also ask questions out here sorry .
|
2011-06-24, 3:30pm
|
|
Nikki Haverstock
|
|
Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
|
|
I am not saying you can't ask questions here. I just meant that a good book will cover all the basics so rather than having to ask every question you can just fill in the blanks. I have only been at the torch for a very short time myself and I found that personally the book was a better approach for the fundamentals of the craft, for example what annealing does, Coe, how a torch works. I find the forum is better for more subjective topics like color combinations, current trends, and very specific problems like encasing certain colors, which black for which application, etc.
That is just me. My post was not a criticism but an honest attempt at useful advice.
|
2011-06-24, 3:48pm
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
Ok I'm just not sure I feel like I ask too many questions . What book did you find to be the most helpful with those questions ?
|
2011-06-24, 3:52pm
|
|
Nikki Haverstock
|
|
Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
|
|
I have James Kervin's more than you ever wanted to know about glass bead making.
|
2011-06-24, 4:56pm
|
|
I'm a lilac!
|
|
Join Date: Jun 09, 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,793
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra
I have James Kervin's more than you ever wanted to know about glass bead making.
|
This is an EXCELLENT book and I highly recommend it!
__________________
-Kalera
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. * To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-24, 5:03pm
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
well then I guess that will have to be my next book even though its kinda pricey
|
2011-06-24, 5:39pm
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 23, 2005
Location: Up and down I-95
Posts: 4,390
|
|
This is my understanding of why the furnace frits (94-96coe) work on COE's from 90-104 in small amounts (with exception of 96coe rods, that's pretty much unlimited). It may be flawed logic and only based on what I've read or heard. But it's free and you're getting what you paid for.
So it used to be, and I have no idea if this is still true, that the furnace frits contain more lead and so make them more 'stretchy' and forgiving when used in small amounts. There was a 'rule' that I haven't heard in awhile about 5% or maybe it was 10% of the bead could be these furnace frits. And there was a theory, not mine but I thought it made sense, of the roundness of form. We've all heard of pressed beads having more cracks and incompatibility problems than round beads. Like I said, it's a theory. *shrug*
By furnace frits I mean all the neato multicolored ones by several frit makers, Val Cox, Glass Diversions, The Rabbit Hutch, etc. I can't name them all so sorry if I left anybody out.
On the flip side, there are frits made by Bullseye that are compatible only with other Bullseye compatible glass. Also System 96 and Uroboros make frits that are compatible with the System 96 rods. You can never use these frits with another COE. It's B.A.D. And of course there are 104 frits. Effetre has some, Double Helix makes some of their silverglass frit and they can be used with other 104 rods but never on Bullseye or System 96.
K?
__________________
Rebecca
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-25, 7:35am
|
|
Corgi Cult Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 3,723
|
|
If you do decide to play with lots of frit, I highly recommend Val Cox's book! Excellent information and amazing photos, worth every penny.
__________________
Kathy
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-25, 1:04pm
|
|
Ad astra per aspera
|
|
Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 7,324
|
|
One other thing that you can do to use 96 COE frit with 104 glass is to make what I call a "blended" stringer. Start a gather with a 104 rod. Dip it in the 96 frit then melt it in to your gather. You can repeat this again for better coverage. Then pull out your stringer and apply to a 104 bead. Once you gain skill with this you can also do the dip/melt, then let the gather cool til firm and encase it with more 104 (clear or a transparent), then pull an encased stringer. You can get some really gorgeous effects this way.
If you use a multicolored frit, get a larger size, if you can, do ONE dip only, melt it in and pull for a cool streaky stringer.
__________________
Karen Sherwood
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-28, 4:09pm
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Feb 13, 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 626
|
|
Book to buy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra
I have James Kervin's more than you ever wanted to know about glass bead making.
|
I second that opinion! Look for it on Amazon, then check under the used books. I found mine very reasonably priced from a Goodwill Store with 2.99 shipping.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
All my children have paws To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Proud Member of "YOU PEOPLE" 9.13.11 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-28, 4:26pm
|
|
Know-it-all Megalomaniac
|
|
Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 6,282
|
|
Here's my nickels worth.
Pick ONE coe, and stick with it for a while.
I would suggest 104, since that gives you the widest range, and
that's the one most tutorials are based around.
This will serve you twofold - one, you won't have to worry about
compatibility, and two, you'll have more money to invest in colors
in that COE.
Also, this is my one hard and fast rule that you should ALWAYS follow.
Repeat after me:
"No rod shall enter this studio (spare bedroom/outdoor shed/kitchen
table) that is unlabeled."
When you get glass, before you do ANYTHING, get a sticker (I use the
tiny address label sizes) a sharpie, and WRITE DOWN WHAT THE GLASS
IS! Stock number, description, even the vendor (I have a code for
each vendor, so it makes it easy). The VERY worst things that can
happen for a beadmaker is to get rods mixed up, or to know in the
back of your head you bought a pound of 100$ per lb glass, and you
can't tell which glass it is. Very sad.
Welcome to a new chapter in your life.
(chapter 11)
__________________
Copyright holder on round beads
Get your copy of the new Lampwork Etc. Tutorials and Tips Book
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2011-06-28, 4:33pm
|
|
Confused as usual
|
|
Join Date: Jun 17, 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 328
|
|
Thanks Karen that is great advice I will write it in my Notebook so I remember always : )
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:20pm.
|