Glass COE's teaching page, updating

FiredDesires · #1 2006-08-23, 7:58pm

This morning in chat we were talking about various c.o.e's, in bringing up my learning sheet for them in my student booklet, I realized that after 8yrs, it was terribly out of date! Didn't have half the glass listed that is now on the market. Do you have more to add?

Sooo, the below listing is what I have so far. I'd appreciate input as to what I'm missing, or if you feel the c.o.e.'s are incorrect. I gathered them from various websites and two books, Bandu's & Kervins and are considered to be standard accepted, and I think...measured figures, not linear. Thanks for your help.
Catharine

SOFT GLASS
Ask (Arrow Springs Kugler), rod, 104
Bullseye, rod/sheet, 90
Caliente, rod, 96
CIM (color is messy), rod, 96
CIM (color is messy), rod, 104
Czeck, rod, 104-110
Czeck (expanded), rod, 95-115
Double Helix, rod, 104
Effetre (Moretti), rod, 104
Easy Flow, rod, 132
Float (Window) averaged, sheet, 84-87
GG Glass, rod, 96
GNA clear antique, sheet, 90
Kinari, rod, 125-130
Kugler rod 104
Lausha, rod , 98-104
R-4, rod, 104
Reichenbach, rod, 96
Satake lead, rod, 120
Satake soda, rod, 113
Schott, rod & pucks, 90
Schott, pucks, 108
Spectrum, sheet, 96
Striking Color (brads) rod 104
System 96, rod & strips, 96
Urobos, sheet, 90
Vetrofond, rod, 104
Vintage, rod, 96
Wasser, sheet, 90

BLOWING/GAFFER GLASS
Kugler color bar 89-93
Q-Color color bar 91-94
Reichenbach color bar 91-94
Spruce Pine*83 grain chip 91-92
Spruce Pine *87 grain chip 96
Zimmerman color bar 89-93

Hard Glass (Boroscilicate)
Alchemy, Momk'as, Precision, Northstar (colors) 30-33
Pyrex, Duran, Simax, Kimax, Kimball (clears) 33

doesdoes · #2 2006-08-24, 2:09am

Czech is between 104-110, but I haven't had any problems mixing them up with Effetre/Vetrofond.
Thanks for the update

Jenny

FiredDesires · #3 2006-08-24, 8:33am

Jenny....thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me that coe...I came across two different annealing temps for the Czech (lead/soda) but couldn't find the c.o.e. numbers.

Folks must think these figures are pretty accurate, because after 52 views, only one person has responded. Was hoping Mike, Dale would pop in and verify. Even though I've been at this a long time, I really respect their opinions on tech/safety matters.

I did get one question though....about using glass of different coes..stay within 2-3 points of coes..this is an accepted rule of thumb. Just because a glass is from the same company doesn't mean their whole line is compatible with each other. Don't mix the Lead & soda type glass together i.e. czech, Sataki glass lines.....look at that point spread!

Unfortunately, I've never been able to locate the coe's for Moretti's Alabastars and Opalinos, with all the trouble I've heard of people having/using them with other Moretti AND with each other...you can best believe the point spread isn't all 104.

Kara · #4 2006-08-25, 9:21am

Kugler is 104 I believe.

FiredDesires · #5 2006-08-25, 9:48am

Hi Kara...yes Kugler is producing rod form now(however, very limited colors) that is/will be coe 104 or compatible, and I will eventually put them in the soft glass category. The Kugler listing I have is for Gaffer/Blowing glasses and those coes are what they have listed at CRLoo.
I'm glad your thinking though...its' a reminder of just how many kinds & types of glass there are..hugs,
Catharine

Edited: by the way..avatar is cool.....handsome couple!

shawnette · #6 2006-08-25, 10:14am

Hey Catharine, awesome info!

You can get the COE of czech at www.checkglass.com. The range is 95-115, depending on which type you get (shampoo/ornela, lead or soda lime).

Kara, the Kugler line to which you are referring is called ASK (Arrow Springs Kugler). It will only be available at Arrow Springs, unlike the Kugler furnace glass which is carried by multiple vendors.

Thanks for posting this!

Bunyip · #7 2006-08-25, 12:13pm

What about the COE 96 Reduction frits & Rods? Who makes that?

FiredDesires · #8 2006-08-25, 2:12pm

Shawnette..thanks for the heads up/link for the czech...another dang glass that has coes' all over the place, lol. I truly appreciate your cudo's & help.

Buny the r. frits are made by Reichenbach, Zimmerman or Kugler (under the glass blowing/gaffer heading) the coe's are way off from our familar Moretti/BE glass, but are used sparingly and usually on the surface...they're higher in lead content, which allows us to get away with that "mixing of the coe's" type of thing. When I say mixing..I don't mean to actually mix & blend the two glasses together...stringer & frit roll is what I'm talking about when saying the mix word..

Glad more peeps are contributing to this thread and please remember I'm not an authority on all this, just my observations and appreciate others opinions.
Catharine

P.S. Anyone care to tackle the Kinari info?? I've done enough research this last couple days, lol

shawnette · #9 2006-08-25, 7:18pm

Kinari is 125-130.

FiredDesires · #10 2006-08-25, 8:04pm

Whoohooooooo, yeah Shawnette, the elusive Kinari figures...thanks friend. lol, and yet ANOTHER glass with a wild swing in coes! lol
Anybody else got glass or info to add to this info sheet? I think its' working up nicely and thanks everyone for their interest in my project.

kk5336 · #11 2006-08-26, 6:59am

Great info...when I started doing glass, I had a few different brands and it was easy to keep track. As I've progressed, so has my glass...and I was just thinking the other day about all the COE's and I couldn't find them on some of the glass...so thank you, thank you for doing this. Hmmmm, there's actually some glass that I don't have.

Kathie
Good Omen Designs

LadyCrow · #12 2006-08-26, 8:18am

I'm going for the stupid newbie of the year award this time, but, how do I find out the COE of stained glass? How can I tell if I can use it with my moretti glass?
Margie

FiredDesires · #13 2006-08-26, 6:23pm

Kathie...thanks so much for the thank you. Although I did most of the leg work, you can see I've got people popping in and helping also, but then again..thats' what this place is about.

Margie, the only stupid question I say..is the one that never gets asked! As a newbie once upon a time, long ago in a far away land...ah, wait that is another story.. lol....I have the Wasser, Spectrum, Uroburos & GNA antiques listed above. Somewhere I have Kokomo, Armstrong & Wissmach figures but that will really take some searching. Basically if the glass company has "tested compatible" fusing glass, that is what you want to use...for the longest time folks were stripping Bullseye glass right off the sheets and torching with them. And Kate Drew-Wilkerson made 2 great videos about making beads with sg scrap (Spectrum) and a whole new world of glass choice opened up. Now many of the companies that primarily had only sheet glass are now making rods.. Sorry, I seem to be rambling...what stained glass scrap did you have in mind? You won't be able to mix/blend the stuff with other companys i.e. bullseye fusing/sheet won't work with the Spectrum.
As far as using it with your Moretti you should do the stringer pull test with the scrap that you have & the Moretti. I believe the how-to for that is listed in the tutorial section. Anyone got the link handy for that test or the page?

Gail Joseph · #14 2006-08-26, 6:37pm

GG Glass/Cane is COE 96

FiredDesires · #15 2006-08-27, 9:51pm

Gail, what does the GG stands for in your logo? Went to your website, very pretty glass.....do you ever offer the sample packs that have one of each color? I'm still thinking about where I'll put this glass, probably included behind the caliente...as to me, over the years gaffer is associated with blowing glass.

FiredDesires · #16 2006-08-28, 12:35pm

Wow..thank you whoever rated my thread...how very nice of you..

Purity · #17 2006-12-17, 9:00pm

BUMP

Just wanted this thread to be back on the new post list, so anything else can be added for us noobs.

lunamoonshadow · #18 2006-12-17, 9:46pm

CIM~Creation is Messy~104

BeadMaven · #19 2006-12-17, 9:50pm

Great info here, thanks Catharine

Bump again

Anne Londez · #20 2006-12-18, 12:47am

The only thing that caught my eye is that I've always been told that float glass was 90 but I might well be mistaken. Great list !

FiredDesires · #21 2006-12-18, 9:32am

Anne, I could double check those figures...but I think they came from two different sources, and perhaps I averaged them. I could change the end figure to a 90 which would catch all the ranges, many glasses have a range that are points apart. (a "float glass" search on the internet yields conflicting numbers)

As with many of the glasses, there are two measured coes...standard accepted (which is what most of the lampworkers are familiar with) and a linear measurement. Far more technical than I can speak to. I would never say that this chart is "accurate to a t"?, it is meant as a general guide and by no means a end all, be all type of thing. Thanks everyone for your help & appreciation for my research, even if, it is a bare bones complilation, it's a place to start!

FiredDesires · #22 2006-12-19, 9:42pm

Anyone have any more glass that needs to be included here? I'll go into the original post and edit if you do.....

Hector · #23 2007-02-01, 12:24am

Hi Catharine,
Thanks for putting this list together. Do you have the coe of Schott? I was given a bundle of clear Schott but no coe listed. Thanks!

Hector

Phoenix · #24 2007-02-01, 8:44am

CIM has Messy 96 now as well- which is a 96 coe (it is tested to 96, so it doesn't fall in the Reich variable area)

madnesssr · #25 2007-02-01, 10:00am

Caliente Cane is 96. Her website is

http://calienteglass.com/index.php

madnesssr · #26 2007-02-01, 10:13am

Jessica, I don't see your awesome glass on the list. The vinatages you have ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phoenix · #27 2007-02-01, 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by madnesssr

Jessica, I don't see your awesome glass on the list. The vinatages you have ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Stephanie! I was going to add those- but since they are variable "compatable" glasses I didn't- but what the heck

The vintage glasses are 96ish officially

Lisi · #28 2007-02-02, 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyCrow

I'm going for the stupid newbie of the year award this time, but, how do I find out the COE of stained glass? How can I tell if I can use it with my moretti glass?
Margie

I used to make a lot of beads with Spectrum and Spectrum 96 fusible glass. I never mixed the glass, but you can use any of the COE 92-96 Reichenbach, Gaffer, and Zimmerman frits on them. In small amounts on the surface, and don't encase.

What really looks cool is the semi-transparent wispy swirls as a base and a bright frit color or frit blend over that.

parisgal · #29 2007-02-25, 3:32pm

Hey Hector, you might have gotten your question answered, but Schott makes clear glass in several COEs, definitely 90 and boro COE, and also a 108 I think.

FiredDesires · #30 2008-03-02, 2:05pm

I know it's been forever since I've updated this thread, but in preparation of updating my teaching booklet for next months Glasscraft Expo, I've re-worked the figures, added new glass types...so everyone...remember this is not the "definitive" answer to your coe questions, but it gives you a starting area to consider. Once again all info has been compiled by many years reasearching the web/books, two excellent books on lampworking, glass company websites and all of my fellow lampwork artists who have been so willing to share and inform. Please look the list over (first post of this thread) and see if I've posted wrong figures or have omitted anything.
Catharine