Kiln Bead Stacking??

AVTrout · #1 2010-05-03, 6:12am

I have a Paragon Bluebird which is long but not deep. I've always put the mandrels in parallel to the kiln but I can only get maybe 10 or so beads/mandrels in there at a time. If I stick the mandrels in perpendicular, the ends stick out of the kiln and I can't close the doors the whole way. I saw a pic somewhere of someone who stacked their beads in a Bluebird. I always make sure mine don't touch each other or any other mandrels. Question is, can I stack and let them touch? Will they fuse together in the heat of the kiln?

Cosmo · #2 2010-05-03, 6:27am

Annealing temperature is a good bit below the softening point of the glass, so they shouldn't stick.

Back when I was teaching classes that used mandrels, we'd get up to a hundred beads/mandrels in a kiln. What we would do is when we put one in, make sure it's not touching anything, just in case it's a little hot. When you are done with the next one, the previous one will be cool enough to move and stack it on top of other ones.

jaci · #3 2010-05-03, 6:44am

any way you can put a small metal mesh grid in the back to help with the stack, or a shelf?

MelanieG · #4 2010-05-03, 6:48am

I only have an SC2 (which is only about 1/3 of the width of your Bluebird), so I have to stack my beads... or be happy to make only four or five a day. What I do is make sure they don't go into the kiln too hot (glow almost gone) and then every five beads or so, I rearrange everything in there so that everything that already went in moves to the edge, stacked on top of the other stuff that was already in there so that I have space to put 4-5 more beads in there without them touching, then repeat that as needed until my torching session is done.

I have a kiln rack so that they don't touch the kiln bottom. It works really well.

R4GlassStudio · #5 2010-05-03, 7:58am

I have shown this one before. I don't remember the qty, but it was something like 63 pieces. These were blown beads from a Tink class. John put them all in the kiln... and we had 100% come out (both classes).
Everything in the picture on the right was from ONE KILN LOAD. You can email TINK for her secrets.... they did a good job.
Rocio and Ron

AVTrout · #6 2010-05-03, 8:11am

Oh cool, I have new hope! I'm stuck to only making about 10 or so a day.

KarenBeth · #7 2010-05-03, 4:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Annealing temperature is a good bit below the softening point of the glass, so they shouldn't stick.

Back when I was teaching classes that used mandrels, we'd get up to a hundred beads/mandrels in a kiln. What we would do is when we put one in, make sure it's not touching anything, just in case it's a little hot. When you are done with the next one, the previous one will be cool enough to move and stack it on top of other ones.

Interesting... my kiln is set at 960 ever since I bought it. My first batch was a batch anneal and several stuck together. I thought it was something to do with being "batched". Every so often, when I put a bead in and it accidentily touches another, they stick together and I get all pissy because it was a great bead and now all messed up. Whats up with this? Is something wrong with my temperature gauge? How would I test it to see what the temp actually is inside the kiln?

debkauz · #8 2010-05-03, 4:56pm

Let the last bead you put in sit for about 5 minutes at least before you stack them up. Don't stack any beads up if you've put enamels on them because those stay sticky and will stick. If you accidentally put a bead in and it sticks, just wait for a bit and then it should come apart. If it was too hot it may not but otherwise it should be OK although it may have a bit of a divit in it.

RyanTheNumberImp · #9 2010-05-03, 5:19pm

If beads are sticking at 960 during a batch anneal your kiln is running way hotter than it says it is. There should be no sagging, sticking or any marking on the beads after they go into the kiln (provided that they don't go in super hot).

Back when I first started lampworking I had a few nice beads in my kiln and I went to put in another bead. It was too hot and stuck to a second bead, so I panicked and grabbed both of them by their (now super hot) mandrels and stuck a third bead to the mess in the process. In the end all I got was burnt hands and three ruined beads. Now I am careful when I put stuff into the kiln...

KarenBeth · #10 2010-05-04, 9:12am

How do I determine what the temperature actually is in the kiln? Is there a special thermometer I can put in there?

RyanTheNumberImp · #11 2010-05-04, 3:30pm

Technically you would use a thermocouple (which is the thermometer your kiln itself uses), but they tend to be expensive.

An alternative would be to try a cone. They are made so that they bend only once a specific temperature /time combination is reached and the ceramics people use them to judge when glazes and such are done firing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrometric_cone).

The easiest way to check your kiln would just be to prop up a rod of glass in the kiln and see if it sags. I'm pretty sure you are supposed to lower the temperature until a rod of glass doesn't bend whatsoever after two or so hours in the kiln. Next time you make beads you can always throw a rod of glass onto the bead rack just to see what happens.

KarenBeth · #12 2010-05-04, 4:56pm

I can already tell you, it sags. Lower it by how many degrees? I wonder why my kiln is off with the temperature. Think I'm gonna call the kiln company and see what they have to say. Thanks for the info.

RyanTheNumberImp · #13 2010-05-04, 7:32pm

Try dropping ten to 950 and if you still have problems perhaps go down to 945. It isn't that unusual for kiln thermocouples to be off by a few degrees.

Dasi · #14 2010-05-04, 8:04pm

Check inside the kiln and see where the temperature guage is. (pyrometer?) It should be sticking out inside the kiln. Sometimes they get pushed in a little and this causes a temperature fluxuation. It should stick out a few inches or at least and inch for so.

Once you find it. Give it just a little tug and see if it pulls out further into the inside of the kiln. Sometimes they get knocked out of place.

As for sticking beads. I have a few batches of Rubino that are sticky at 950-930. I anneal them at 925 if the rubino is on the outside of the bead.

KarenBeth · #15 2010-05-05, 5:13pm

thank you very much for the suggestions. I had no idea just a few degrees could do that. I'll try it the next time im out there to see if there is a change

parisgal · #16 2010-05-05, 7:21pm

You can also get a pyrometer from Malcom at Artco.com. He has the best price I've seen... I'm about ready to break down and buy one since my kiln seems to be off by quite a bit.