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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2012-09-13, 2:16pm
Troyd Troyd is offline
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Default Tanks VS Concentrators

So I am have a problem keeping up on my tanks, mainly cause I got screwed in a job opportunity, not the point. But I was wondering what I could expect if I was to pick up a concentrator? I learned on a tanked GTT Phantom and then used a tanked old Carlisle CC. I have since purchased my own GTT Scorpion and use tanks but it is describe as being designed for optimum efficacy with concentrators. Could this be an equal kinda deal or am I gonna notice a difference?
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Carlisle on Tanks/Scorpion on Oxy-con
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  #2  
Old 2012-09-13, 2:25pm
dusty dusty is offline
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The Scorpion will run very well on a pair of M-15's. GTT says the maximum neutral flame uses 11lpm oxygen, so 2 M-15's will even leave you room for an oxidizing flame, and the pressure is also more than adequate. A holding tank between the concentrators and the torch will help provide more flame consistency. Pretty sure you won't notice a difference other than not dealing w/ oxygen tanks.
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  #3  
Old 2012-09-13, 2:28pm
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I think it all depends what type of concentrator you get, i use to buy bottles all the time and it got really expensive, now that i have a concentrator it has already paid itself off and is definitly the way to go.

I have a minor and use only around 5lpm, no difference than a bottle. So i assume your Scorpion might require more power so buy a concentrator that will give you what you need.
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  #4  
Old 2012-09-13, 4:18pm
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Running a Scorpion with three 5 LPM machines at 9.5 PSI (static) on NG at 5 PSI with excellent results. If NG is at .3 PSI (7 WC) then only two concentrators are needed as there is less fuel to burn.
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Old 2012-09-14, 9:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
The Scorpion will run very well on a pair of M-15's. GTT says the maximum neutral flame uses 11lpm oxygen, so 2 M-15's will even leave you room for an oxidizing flame, and the pressure is also more than adequate. A holding tank between the concentrators and the torch will help provide more flame consistency. Pretty sure you won't notice a difference other than not dealing w/ oxygen tanks.
Thank you folks!

Dusty that's awesome! So when I upgrade to a phantom I could continue using oxycon, just have to up the holding tank size too?

Alaska could you brake that down for me? Static? On NG ~Natural Gas? 7 WC?
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Carlisle on Tanks/Scorpion on Oxy-con

Last edited by Troyd; 2012-09-14 at 9:28am. Reason: Forgot to ask Alaska
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  #6  
Old 2012-09-14, 11:14am
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By static, she means against a stopped flow, I believe - that, or against any flow, stopped or wide open. Most concentrator manufacturers list the PSI of their machines against a stopped flow, so when you're running your torch the pressure actually drops well under 15psi or whatever.

On that note, the Phantom doesn't run that well off of concentrators without a compressor to increase the pressure. I'd recommend upgrading to a Sidewinder or something else, instead, if you want to use concentrators - you'll get more heat out of it.

NG is natural gas, yes.
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  #7  
Old 2012-09-15, 10:34am
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Awesome. Thank you for the info!
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Carlisle on Tanks/Scorpion on Oxy-con
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  #8  
Old 2012-09-15, 4:39pm
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So my mom works for DeVilbiss and has a 5lpm oxycon that they gave her and she apparently doesn't need anymore... so I just found a huge score. Can I hook up my T-tanks and the oxycon together? The idea is that I wont use up the tank as fast. Is this a good, bad, doesn't matter idea? If this is possible, does anyone know where I can find info on how to do this safely?
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Carlisle on Tanks/Scorpion on Oxy-con
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  #9  
Old 2012-09-15, 9:11pm
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Glad to help.

If you've got a 4-stud Scorpion, you can use the concentrator on the inner fire and the tanks on the outer. Get a foot pedal for the outer fire and a tank will go a really long way. The inner fire will run better if you can score another 5lpm, but more than that would be overkill.

*edit*
To do it, you just hook the inner flame's oxygen post to the concentrator, and the outer flame's to the tank.

Last edited by dusty; 2012-09-15 at 9:18pm.
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  #10  
Old 2012-09-15, 10:04pm
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The Cricket, which is the inner fire of the Scorpion, will run fine on a pair of 5 LPM machines. One will work, but is not recommended. Thus as suggested above, run the inner fire on a pair of concentrators with the outer on tanked.

On this end run the Scorpion with oxygen always on also for the outer fire. It helps keep the torch cooler plus better defines the inner flame. And when the outer is needed it is just a matter of turning on the fuel for the extra needed BTU's.
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  #11  
Old 2012-09-16, 11:54am
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There is a lot of misconceptions re holding tanks and their use. And re hooking tanks and oxycon systems together.
I do not recommend hooking an oxycon to a tanked system. The tanked part of the system will overpower the oxycon and could reverse flow the oxycon and damage it. A gas flows from the point of highest pressure into all points of lower pressure until the pressures are equal. You can make the oxycon part of a system such as mine where I can switch from oxycons to tanked on my inner flame ring using valves but basically the two should be seperate.

The holding tank would not have to be enlarged. It simply provides a reservoir of oxy at the oxycon pressure but with a large volumn. Pressure and volumn are related such that with a set torch opening the pressure in the system, holding tank and hoses, will drop more slowly (over minutes rather than seconds without it) to provide a bonus period of use. Hope this makes sence.

PJH
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  #12  
Old 2012-09-20, 9:45am
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I use a Scorpion and have 2 - 5 lpm concentrators Y-ed together. It works fantastic and I am very happy with the flame, I just got it in the past couple of months. For some reason the gauge only goes up about 3/5 of full output for one of the concentrators when the torch has the oxygen on both the inner and outer flame turned up completely. If I close the other concentrator a little it goes up so it's like its not using all of the available oxygen. Has anyone experienced this?
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  #13  
Old 2012-09-22, 12:14pm
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I have a 10 yr old Airsep AS-12A oxygen generator, which they don't make anymore, but it has a small holding tank to regulate flow from the torch so it doesn't "breathe" with each cycle. These machines are pretty expensive though. I paid $2400 for mine.

But if you have the funds for it, they are a worthwhile investment. I have ran mine on a full time basis for the last 10 years in one of the most humid parts of the US (south FL), and have no problems with it. No maintenance on it either. Just to wash and dry the small 4"x4" removable foam dust filter.

You can see what Airsep offers here: http://www.airsep.com/

Look for the products under "Commercial" and "self-contained generators". My machine is similar to what they call the "Topaz +".
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  #14  
Old 2012-09-22, 1:32pm
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i run the inner ring of Phantom on 2 M-15s y'd together and the outer ring on tanked, loving it!
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  #15  
Old 2012-09-24, 7:51am
Troyd Troyd is offline
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Fantastic stuff! Thank you again folks.
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Carlisle on Tanks/Scorpion on Oxy-con
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