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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

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  #1  
Old 2014-05-02, 6:25pm
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clh clh is offline
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Question Ventilation Problem

I recently moved to a newly constructed house and I am finally getting my lampwork studio set back up. I had power and gas hooked up yesterday but the ventilation has turned into a challenge.

I think we may have too many 90 degrees in the ductwork so the air does not seem to be making it out of the house. I'm in the basement so the air has to be lifted to get out of the house. In my old house I used flexible ducting but have had rigid ducting installed here.

Before we take it all out and modify it, is there a rule of thumb regarding CFM boosting required for each 90 degree bend in the ducting?

My DH seems to think that the fact the house is tightly wrapped could be contributing to the problem as well. Could that be possible?

Any thoughts?

Thanks for the help.
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Old 2014-05-03, 1:44am
Alaska Alaska is offline
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If you have not as yet, read the various threads on this site about ventilation systems.

There are tables that will assist in determining losses due to bends, ID, run length, etc.

However, make sure that you have a window open in your torch area to supply makeup air. If the house is 'tight' and without a source for make up air your system will not perform well.

As you will notice from other threads, smooth ductwork in the range of 10 inches depending on the number of bends and length could work. However, a professional installer is aware of these limitations and will size the system for your needs.

In order for folks to give advise they will need to know run length, number of bends (i.e. 45 vs 90) fan CFM, type of fan, CFM vs static pressure, etc.

As an example, a 750 CFM fan at 0" static pressure will supply 750 CFMs. At .5" static pressure 600 CFM and at 1" static pressure 400 CFM.

Last edited by Alaska; 2014-05-03 at 2:00am.
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Old 2014-05-03, 3:58am
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I actually had everything professionally installed but I guess he didn't quite understand what I really needed.

I believe at this point, there are 4 90 degree-ish bends, the last at the vent out of the house. As to CFMs, we damaged my old fan when we moved and I need to replace it. Just trying to figure out what to do.

There is one window in the basement (a a rather large egress window) and according to my husband there is actually in air intake at the side of the furnace that is bringing air in?
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Old 2014-05-03, 7:22am
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Here is a XL spread sheet that I developed to help with calculate ventilation...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...p?p=2625#p2625

Its crude, but functional.... It may help you or may confuse you more...

Its all part of this forum section....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=22

Dale
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Old 2014-05-03, 7:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clh View Post
I had power and gas hooked up yesterday but the ventilation has turned into a challenge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clh View Post
There is one window in the basement (a a rather large egress window) and according to my husband there is actually in air intake at the side of the furnace that is bringing air in?

From this I am going to guess that you have a gas furnace in the basement this poses a whole other set of problems.

At this point I would say to STOP everything you are doing!

You cannot use the intake air for the furnace! Where is your water heater? They will need to be in an enclosed room with it's own intake air to prevent your studio vent from backdrafting the flues

How big is your vent piping? 8", 10" it may be undersized to begin with.

There are several threads on the specific problems of a basement I would suggest you use the search feature and read them!
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Old 2014-05-03, 9:25am
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Just to elaborate on this ^^^^^

Any time you are exhausting large volumes of air, as with a lampworking exhaust setup, you need to provide an adequate fresh air supply. So for a 600-800 CFM fan this usually translates into having a good size window or door fully open - all the time.

What ever air intake you have for the furnace is ONLY for the furnace - it's not going to supply enough air to makeup for what you're exhausting.

The danger is a condition called flue reversal where, because there isn't adequate supply air, the exhaust fan creates essentially a suction that pulls makeup air down through the furnace's exhaust flue. When this happens the combustion byproducts from the furnace are pulled back into the basement. This is how people die from Carbon Monoxide poisoning and you need to VERY concerned about this!

You need to heed Dave's warning and do your research. As he says the furnace (and any other gas or oil burning appliances) should be completely isolated from the lampworking space. The fact that a profession installed your system means nothing if they don't understand what needs to be accomplished.

Sorry you're having this trouble, but it's a good thing you came here and asked.
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Old 2014-05-03, 11:48am
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Just for clarification, I am not planning to hook into the air intake from the furnace or water heater. I am going to use the window for air and vent out a newly installed vent in the side of my house.

This will set me up in the same way I was in my old house (which was also in the basement and closer to the furnace and water heaters than I will be here).

Incoming air should be fine once I figure out how strong the exhaust needs to be to get that vent to open up.

Dale, I will try to figure out this spreadsheet but it looks like I will need to leave that to my DH who is more technical than me. Hopefully he can figure it out and finish the set up. He has already removed 2 of the 90 degree turns in the venting so I think we're moving in the right direction.

Thanks!
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Old 2014-07-06, 7:14pm
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We had a woodstove set up in our new studio and had a 1x2 ft window opened when our exhaust fan was on AND the screen door window was opened. It still pulled air from the woodstove and filled the workshop with smoke. We had to move our woodstove to an outside shed and vent it through the walls with forced air.

Please be sure to use a CO2 detector in your lampwork studio to be sure you are not pulling in dangerous fumes from your furnace and gas hot water heater vents. Although you may feel you have adequate intake air, you may be surprised that you really don't.

If your house is tightly wrapped, your fan will pull air from where ever it can, and that can still be from your furnace vent, even if it's in a separate room. Fumes/air know no bounds and can travel through small cracks and holes.

You should do the smoke test by lighting paper on fire (carefully in something fire proof, of course ) and place that where your furnace is when your exhaust fan is on. It's a good test as you'll be able to smell the smoke, but you can't smell CO2.

Good luck, I hope you figure out your venting. I know it's daunting. We had a heck of a time, it took us almost a year to get it all worked out. And a TON of work.
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Old 2014-07-09, 5:30am
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large straight vent duct (~8 inches OD), LARGER MAKE UP AIR DUCT (~10 inches OD), back and side baffles around your work zone with all leaks sealed (you want all incoming air to enter your work zone through the front area where you work)....enough air flow to get to around 100 f/min to 125 f/min throat velocity.....no use of powders or enamel unless you have a dedicated powder booth....fire extinguisher, gas shut off near door, an exitable window....there is a lot you need other than a lit match!!!!
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