Anyone using an iridizing spray?

[opportunity-shop]

I have always liked the look of iridizing on paperweights and beads. I bought. I never see any in the gallery so I suppose it is difficult to use safely. Anyone using it? Any tips? Barb

[Gila]

I've read that excellent ventilation is a must; it's dangerous stuff.

[jillfeldstein]

Ive used it. You really really really need good ventilation, consider where the "overflow spray" is going to go. It flames up and smells pretty toxic, you might go with gloves too, you don't really want to spray your hands. They recommend an airbrush, I used a little refillable bottle sprayer.
It works fantastic. I used it in an open garage studio, now I'm in the house, and I just wouldn't even try it here. Good luck, and show is what happens if you try it.

[opportunity-shop]

I was sitting at my computer looking thru the beads I bought from other beadmakers. One was from John Winter, a stunning, large bicone. I remember him saying that is was scary stuff and he probly had some lung damage from using it. I'm not using it at this time, just looking for a change in my beads. Thanks for the input. Barb

[NMLinda]

If you're looking for the carnival glass type effect, I think the solution used is stannous chloride. Very toxic! I talked with an artist once who specialized in beads done with that finish. Not only did he have an almost fully enclosed fume hood like Starleen recommended with a big blower, he set his up outside - was pretty clear with me to never do anything that toxic even in an indoor studio. I forget now what other safety precautions he took, but the glove box idea, (why not actually make a full-on glove box?? Bet you could add the exceptional ventilation needed to an inexpensive sandblasting enclosure from Harbor Freight without much difficulty then seal the thing up REALLY well) coupled with an airbrush to apply and a top-end mask respirator might be good things to do.

I'd recommend researching this thoroughly first so that you understand the health hazards of the chemicals and some of the pitfalls experienced by other glassworkers. I looked into this once, myself, and after talking with this artist, decided I wasn't experienced enough to take on the hazards.

If you're not comfortable doing something so toxic, you might want to try something that a WC artist once posted. If I remember her post (wish I could remember the artist and give her credit!), she took her beads to Sandberg to have them apply a dichroic coating for her. She then etched the beads - they were stunning, and similar in look to carnival glass.

Linda

[beadbroad]

I bought some once, read the Material Safety Data Sheet, and sold it immediately. I can find other versions of pretty.

[prairieson]

Yep, stannous is some pretty nasty stuff. Another, somewhat less dangerous compound will produce a very similar effect, just not quite a brilliant.

Titanium tetrachloride in an alcohol solution is often used.

[PaulaD]

I know a glass blower that uses it but he uses it outside and then runs away after he sprays! Paula

[pam]

And what does that do to the animal life around. None of this is anything to play around with.

[opportunity-shop]

This sure explains why not many bead makers use it. Thanks for all the info. Barb

[RSimmons]

Iridizing a really good way to become a late bead maker, as in 'the late......'

Robert

[lunamoonshadow]

NMLinda--you might be thinking of Sharon Peters--I know she had some irridescent fishes at one point several years ago....(they're still viewable on her website....)

Um, chemicals that "require proper safety methods" should NOT be "just used outside" without regard to the environment...that's just completely irresponsible--not to mention potentially illegal . If you're SPRAYING anything (even your good old basic spraypaint) you should be following ALL the precautions recommended on the can--that stuff goes EVERYWHERE & IN SMALL PARTICLES--when my parents used a sprayer on their camp, they ended up with paint "dots" (tiny, but there!) on their cars & the neighbors cars parked 1/4 mile away. ANYTHING in ANY type of "sprayer" can travel--you can't "outrun" it!
(heck, even HAIRSPRAY is dangerous if you breathe it!)

[NMLinda]

Luna - thanks for reminding me it's Sharon Peters! What she did was a clever idea, and she deserves credit for it.

You make some excellent points. Folks using hazardous chemicals in many industrial settings are required to use air scrubbers to ensure they aren't releasing toxic pollutants into the air. As artists, we often aren't aware of the legal requirements, as well as ethical considerations, for using something this dangerous.

I think we've probably raised the alarm with Barb at this point!

Linda

[lunamoonshadow]

I'll always remember the spray-paint/car lesson....my folks had to have the cars compounded to get it off....*not* a cheap & easy lesson, for sure!!

[WinterGlas]

Hi folks, it's the old iridizer himself. Stannous Chloride, or as I like to refer to it "Polychromatic Death Spray", isn't so bad because of the lead, but because of the hydrochloric acid solvent. An artist friend of mine told me that ingestion of amounts as small as six molecules greatly increases cancer risk. The iridizing spray I use is actually Titanium in an alcohol base. Titanium is non-reactive in the body (think titanium joints), however, the alcohol is somewhat problematic.
Having said that, I would not recommend the amateur dabbling with the process. Proper ventilation and prophylactics are time consuming to set up and somewhat expensive.
As an aside, the use of silver and copper leaf and foil is probably more damaging to the chronic user of such things. For one thing, most artists mount their ventilator above their table, which removes combustion fumes, but these are HEAVY metals. I highly recommend masking and placing an exhaust fan/hose ventilator on the bench and work within its effective range.

[RSimmons]

Stannous chloride is Tin (SnCl2), not lead. Respiratory and gastrointestinal irritant, though in low concentrations is turns up as a food preservative.

Robert

[Oh Honey]

Hmmm might be fun to try the Titanium spray with an major ventilation upgrade. Where can you get the spray at?

[RSimmons]

Look at the snorkel system that Josh Simpson uses for iridizing. It's a separate high velocity duct with a cone at the business end and you work only within the cone. Accept nothing less if you're going to use this technique.

Robert

[oceanmuse]

I have a dumb question can you remelt glass after it has been iridized? I bought some of this glass
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=7121212
and now i am afraid to use it on my beads I know nothing about it other than what is listed thanks
Lorene

[RSimmons]

I would do it only under exceptional ventilation.

Robert

[Mitosis Glass]

Wow, just when you thought glass working couldn't possibly get more dangerous! I'm glad to have stumbled on this thread. I have a tendency to want to try EVERYTHING, but I'll steer clear of this stuff.

I remember seeing Sharon's faux-iridized fish in the book 1000 beads -- they were stunning (of course!).

[mdimatteo]

Lucky me, I bought a bunch of John Winter's beads at B&B last year.....Mark Ableman also makes lovely iridized glass, but after reading about the process I think I'll just appreciate the work of others.
Mary

[metalbone]

I've seen a glass artist fume their ware with stannous chloride by placing a small piece of hot glass in a bowl of stannous chloride, then spin their hot glass in the rising fumes. They of course did this in a hood, and this option would avoid an hydrogen chloride that may be present in a solution-based application.

One possible option for stannous chloride fuming could be to get a small section of boro rod, dip the tip in a smal amount of stannous chloride, then fume like silver....WITH GOOD VENTI of course. I have never tried it, but am thinking of trying it...just don't have any SnCl right now...

[glasshouse]

I don't even think good ventilation would be suitable for that. You would need a dedicated fume/spray box. I've talked to Stuart Abelman about how he iridizes his beads and he told me he uses one too, even though he torches in an unenclosed space.

Also stannous chloride is extremely caustic so be careful where you vent it. My dad used to use it in the 70s, he blew about 12 years worth of Art Nouveau inspired vases, lamps and perfume bottles that he fumed with stannous chloride. He didn't use muriatic acid in the solution either. I promised I wouldn't give away all his secrets, but really it's because a little information can be a very dangerous thing. A person really needs to know what they're doing and have a plan in place before they use chemicals as toxic as stannous chloride.

[RSimmons]

Glasshouse makes very good sense. Considering that most people have ventilation that is barely adequate to simple glass work, taking off on a lark with seriously hazardous chemicals just isn't a smart thing to do. MHO.

Robert

[CalamitysClan]

OK this thread has me worried. I do not use an iridizing spray but I have been fusing some iridized Bullseye plates into plates. My kiln is out back in my studio and I have not been in there during the process except to flash vent the kiln. Are there potentially dangerous fumes? I have done a lot of research and have not come across any warnings about the fumes of just the glass.

Patricia

[SilverCreek Studio]

Uggg, how does having good ventilation stop that shit from getting into my air. You are sucking out the toxic fumes to where?

So if my neighbor is doing this in his backyard, the fumes are getting sucked out of the box via a fan, into my air around my house and while I am out there doing yard work or my dog is out there, we are breathing it in?

Time for a phone call. This guy is doing it day in and day out.

[2xMI]

Patricia--

I've been fusing with Bullseye irridized glass for years with no (known!) ill-effects. You're not getting temps high enough to fume if you're fusing at recommended temperatures. But for peace of mind, call Bullseye Toll free 888.220.3002 and ask them about it. They'll be able to give you specific, technical information concerning their products.

Mimi

[CalamitysClan]

Thanks Mimi. I was able to find a list on their website of their glasses that contain over a certain percentage of lead or cadnium. None of the glasses that I bought were on that list. My concerns were fumes and food safe glasses. I have already fused a platter and an entire set of sushi plates. I don't want to have to start again. Thanks so much for the number. I will give them a call.

Sorry to hijack the thread but this seems to be the place where the people who know were.

Patricia

[GLASSFREEK]

Not only do you want a good fume box but a filtered one at that,so you don't contaminate the outside.

Mike