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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2009-05-03, 5:20pm
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Default Best Mandrels????

I recently purchased some 1/16 stainless steel welding rod from my local welding shop. I have purchased from them before and the rods have been fine, but this time the rods I got are just awful - I have only used them a couple of times, and they are so soft they almost bend just looking at them.
Does anyone know what the best rods to purchase are? ie: what is their brand and/or code number? I like these thin ones to make smaller beads for bracelets, earrings, and beaded necklaces. The ones I have are stamped ER 316L - or it could be ER 376L - hard to tell if the second number is a 1 or a 7.
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 2009-05-03, 5:26pm
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ER 308L
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  #3  
Old 2009-05-03, 5:38pm
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Thanks a bunch Ronnie!
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  #4  
Old 2009-05-04, 6:49am
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Buy 308L or 316L. I have gotten a bad batch before and had to change welding supply shops to get a different brand.

Patricia
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  #5  
Old 2009-05-04, 8:07am
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For overall life, you want 316L. The bigger the number, the less iron in the stainless. The L indicates that the stainless contains lower iron.

There are higher grades, but above 316 the cost becomes very prohibitive.
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  #6  
Old 2009-05-04, 1:59pm
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Thanks for your replies everyone. The latest ones I purchased were 316L, but they were really awful. I had only used them a couple of times, and when I was trying to break off a thin stringer that I had used to twist the glass, it was bending the mandrel - the bead release was fine, but the mandrel bent. Now I call that really soft - perhaps it was a bad batch. Basically all they can be used for is making little spacers.
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  #7  
Old 2009-05-04, 10:41pm
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I bought some "almost indestructable mandrels" from AVC, and they are what they claim to be - almost indestructable. I bought 1/16, 3/32, & 1/8 mandrels, and I've not bent one of them yet.
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  #8  
Old 2009-05-05, 4:50am
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I have used 316L and 308L, and both always seem to work well in 3/32 and larger, never had any problems with either. But in 1/16 I have some "batches" that bent so easy they were pretty much useless. Just luck of the draw what you get I guess...welding shop I get mine at said...they are for welding...and work good for that so no help with returning or exchanging them.
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  #9  
Old 2009-05-05, 7:02am
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I purchased some 308L yesterday, so I will give them a try and see how they go. I think you are right, Oftenred, in that it is luck of the draw - I have some 316L that I purchased a couple of years ago, and while they are not as good as new, they are still useable. These latest 316L from the same place are terrible.

Renee, what is AVC, please?
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Old 2009-05-05, 7:24am
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You may have gotten mis-marked or open package TIG rods that weren't returned to the right bin.

Check each rod. They should be stamped on the end of each rod with the type of stainless steel it is.

AVC is the sucessor to Aura Lens Products: Aura Vision Concepts. Our website is in my sig line. The link for the mandrels is here: http://www.auralens.net/bs_mandrels.cfm
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  #11  
Old 2009-05-05, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee View Post
I bought some "almost indestructable mandrels" from AVC, and they are what they claim to be - almost indestructable.
I sencond that!
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  #12  
Old 2009-05-05, 3:54pm
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I'm curious Ed - why are the 5/64 mandrels (my favorite size) so much more expensive than the other sizes?
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  #13  
Old 2009-05-05, 4:17pm
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I was wondering about that also!
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  #14  
Old 2009-05-05, 5:07pm
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Well, I'm also curious. After reading here about the "indestructables" I wanted to order the 1/16" mandrels - first only one pack to check them out before buying bigger quantities.
But paying $9.78 shipping for an order of $7 of mandrels that fit perfectly fine in a normal padded envelope seems out of the question. I checked the other choices and the cheapest available is still $7.25.
Sorry, but with that price I'll buy my mandrels somewhere else.
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Old 2009-05-05, 7:10pm
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Priority Mail shipping is $5.45 if you buy the mandrels from their ebay store.

Quite a bit less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeRangiStudio View Post
Well, I'm also curious. After reading here about the "indestructables" I wanted to order the 1/16" mandrels - first only one pack to check them out before buying bigger quantities.
But paying $9.78 shipping for an order of $7 of mandrels that fit perfectly fine in a normal padded envelope seems out of the question. I checked the other choices and the cheapest available is still $7.25.
Sorry, but with that price I'll buy my mandrels somewhere else.
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  #16  
Old 2009-05-05, 8:18pm
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And there's also a discount for forum members, but I honestly don't know if that extends to their ebay store. Check Ed's siggy line.
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  #17  
Old 2009-05-06, 6:14am
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If your mandrels are too soft, put them in your kiln (completely in the kiln). Get them up to temp, then take them out with tongs or something similar and safe and quench them quickly into a bucket of cold water. This will harden the steel.

You mandrels can actually get softer over time as they get annealed with the beads.
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  #18  
Old 2009-05-06, 6:30am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaJ View Post
If your mandrels are too soft, put them in your kiln (completely in the kiln). Get them up to temp, then take them out with tongs or something similar and safe and quench them quickly into a bucket of cold water. This will harden the steel.

You mandrels can actually get softer over time as they get annealed with the beads.
I do this with all my mandrels, except I use my torch. I heat half the mandrel in the flame and then dunk them in water. Once it's cooled off, I do the other end.
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  #19  
Old 2009-05-06, 8:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaJ View Post
If your mandrels are too soft, put them in your kiln (completely in the kiln). Get them up to temp, then take them out with tongs or something similar and safe and quench them quickly into a bucket of cold water. This will harden the steel.

You mandrels can actually get softer over time as they get annealed with the beads.

Thanks - I'm going to give that a try this morning. When I was telling my husband about this, he said "yeah, I knew that" - so why didn't he tell me about it??????
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  #20  
Old 2009-05-06, 10:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PattyK View Post
I'm curious Ed - why are the 5/64 mandrels (my favorite size) so much more expensive than the other sizes?
5/64th (2 mm) is a non-standard size. Most of the sizes shown are welding rods. The 5/64th" and 1/4" sizes are not welding rods but actual stainless rod, which is more expensive than the welding rod.

Welding rod is made in very large batches so there is a lower price because of volume. The two sizes listed are made in such large batches so the prices are higher.

We've tried to keep our prices in line with the other suppliers as best we can.
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  #21  
Old 2009-05-06, 10:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeRangiStudio View Post
Well, I'm also curious. After reading here about the "indestructables" I wanted to order the 1/16" mandrels - first only one pack to check them out before buying bigger quantities.
But paying $9.78 shipping for an order of $7 of mandrels that fit perfectly fine in a normal padded envelope seems out of the question. I checked the other choices and the cheapest available is still $7.25.
Sorry, but with that price I'll buy my mandrels somewhere else.
I understand. However, the Post Office has managed in the past to bend 1/16" mandrels on us, so we now ship them in cardboard tubes to prevent that. There's no point in ordering mandrels in a padded envelope if they arrive bent.

USPS is less expensive by the way, $7.25 for up to one pound, and as someone else has indicated, $5.45 off our ebay store.
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  #22  
Old 2009-05-06, 10:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee View Post
And there's also a discount for forum members, but I honestly don't know if that extends to their ebay store. Check Ed's siggy line.
No, it doesn't. The discount is available only on the AVC website.
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Old 2009-05-06, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyndaJ View Post
If your mandrels are too soft, put them in your kiln (completely in the kiln). Get them up to temp, then take them out with tongs or something similar and safe and quench them quickly into a bucket of cold water. This will harden the steel.

You mandrels can actually get softer over time as they get annealed with the beads.
This is correct. It's called tempering (just like you do with swords!).

Use an upside down cast iron skillet (cast iron won't flake like steel or stainless does) and lay the rods loosely bundled in picture hanging wire. Bring them up to 950, hold for about 30 minutes, then take the bundle out and quench in cold water.

Be sure that the rods are straight however. Once you've tempered them they will be next to impossible to straighten.

You can also de-temper by bringing them up to 950 and hold for 30 min, then just turn the kiln off and let it cool naturally.
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  #24  
Old 2009-05-06, 6:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVC-Ed View Post
For overall life, you want 316L. The bigger the number, the less iron in the stainless. The L indicates that the stainless contains lower iron.

There are higher grades, but above 316 the cost becomes very prohibitive.
I believe you are mistaken... the "L" is low CARBON and usually used in FOOD GRADE products welding.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel

"300 Series—austenitic chromium-nickel alloys

* Type 301—highly ductile, for formed products. Also hardens rapidly during mechanical working. Good weldability. Better wear resistance and fatigue strength than 304.
* Type 302—same corrosion resistance as 304, with slightly higher strength due to additional carbon.
* Type 303—free machining version of 304 via addition of sulfur and phosphorus. Also referred to as "A1" in accordance with ISO 3506.[11]
* Type 304—the most common grade; the classic 18/8 stainless steel. Also referred to as "A2" in accordance with ISO 3506.[11]
* Type 304L— same as the 304 grade but contains less carbon to increase weldability. Is slightly weaker than 304.
* Type 304LN—same as 304L, but also nitrogen is added to obtain a much higher yield and tensile strength than 304L.
* Type 308—used as the filler metal when welding 304
* Type 309—better temperature resistance than 304, also sometimes used as filler metal when welding dissimilar steels, along with inconel.
* Type 316—the second most common grade (after 304); for food and surgical stainless steel uses; alloy addition of molybdenum prevents specific forms of corrosion. It is also known as marine grade stainless steel due to its increased resistance to chloride corrosion compared to type 304. 316 is often used for building nuclear reprocessing plants.[11]
* Type 316L—extra low carbon grade of 316, generally used in stainless steel watches and marine applications due to its high resistance to corrosion. Also referred to as "A4" in accordance with ISO 3506.
* Type 316Ti—includes titanium for heat resistance, therefore it is used in flexible chimney liners.
* Type 321—similar to 304 but lower risk of weld decay due to addition of titanium. See also 347 with addition of niobium for desensitization during welding."


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  #25  
Old 2009-05-06, 7:41pm
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I have been buying 304 from Speedy metals lately.
Seems to work fine so far and you can't beat the price.
The rod they supply is not tig rod so it comes with a little grease on it. I buy 48 inch lengths , cut to size, grind the ends and cook it in the kiln to clean it up.

3/32 rod @ 1.22 cents an inch. Its hard to go wrong.

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-1839-...-annealed.aspx

Tempering it will only last until the metal gets glowing hot again so pretty much anywhere you make a bead on the mandrel will lose its temper the first time it is used.
Waste of time if you ask me.

Peace
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Old 2009-05-07, 7:28am
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I've also noted that a couple of USPS shipping options were missing off the selection list on the website, and I've asked Mike to get that resolved. Hopefully, that will address any issues regarding to postage costs!
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Old 2009-05-07, 10:55am
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Trey-- I think the price you quoted is missing a decimal or something? It looks like it's $0.15 for a 12" length?

Mimi
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  #28  
Old 2009-05-07, 11:35am
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Quote:
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Trey-- I think the price you quoted is missing a decimal or something? It looks like it's $0.15 for a 12" length?

Mimi
Actually As stated in my post I order the 48 inch length and then cut them to 16 inches.
The 48 inch lengths are 59 cents. Works out to 1.2291666666666666666666666666667 cents an inch.
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Old 2009-05-24, 10:20pm
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Because I read that AVC mandrels were highly recommended in this thread, I ordered some from them on the 5th of May, 20 days ago.

I'm very anxious to get them there almost indestructible mandrels!
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  #30  
Old 2009-05-25, 12:23am
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We do a bulk buy with our local bead group and the savings is amazing. Highly recommend this if you can.
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