butterflies made with coppper leaf question

patienthand · #1 2010-02-20, 9:51am

I was reading the tutorial for making the leaf punch outs for beads. It was talking about using enamels. Does it need to be the thompson 90 coe enamels or will other powdered glasses work as well?

I have a big stash of the furnace glass powders from my furnace days, and would like to use them if its possible rather than buy more materials on a tight budget, but dont want to put a ton of work into things that will crack. If I recall correctly copper is a 90 coe, but since we are putting it onto 104 glass and the copper can be forgiving, as well at the furnace glass powders.. is it ok to use them? I thinking it would be ok as long as I keep the percentage of powders used low in the over all bead.

input appreciated

and.. I wiped Micheals out for their dollar punches today for the butterflies, and another guild member is checking her micheals as well, we intend to keep a few for our "library" and also use them as prizes etc for guild meetings. It would be nice if we could find enough for every member to get one. If you want to look for them at a micheals near you, look in their dollar bin section not in the normal scrap booking area.

Candice

Nitadee · #2 2010-02-20, 10:43am

good question Candice, and (lol) as you know I have NO idea!
Great find on the punches tho!!!
Hugs
Nita

RSimmons · #3 2010-02-20, 7:54pm

I use the Thompson's enamels made for 104 glass. I don't think that the 90 COE enamels for furnace glass will work well with this glass. They might work OK with BE, but I think that the difference is too much for Effetre/Moretti/Vetrofond, etc. The formulations are probably different as well and I don't know that you would get the same color reaction with the copper. I've never tried it with any other type of enamel beyond Thompson's. You might experiment with BE and see how it works.

Robert

KEW · #4 2010-02-20, 7:57pm

I only have 104 enamels and I switched to BE rods about 5 years ago. One day I decided to play with the enamels and didn't even think of COE. Nothing bad happened. They were ugly, but no cracks. It's worth a try, inho.

patienthand · #5 2010-02-21, 6:38am

ok.. I ordered some of the 104 thompson enamels.. thanks for the info.

Candice

patienthand · #6 2010-03-11, 9:35am

ok ok.. my thompson enamels came in, so I sat down today to make me some butterfly beads with copper leaf.... I about went insane.

I have a little bitty buttefly punch from the dollar bin at micheals and a bigger one as well. I could not for the life of me get the last layer of the thin paper that comes with the leaf to come off without destroying the little butterfly, using the smaller punch. I mangled maybe 10 of em. I tried tweezers, fingernails, peeling, sliding, swearing loudly and no luck.

So, I moved on tot he bigger punch.. mangled a few of those too. What finally worked on that size was to get an exacto blade in and gradually work it all the way around before very trying to lift that paper. I managaed to get a few onto the marver plate in one piece.. yayyyyyyyyyy.

so anyone who has secrets or ideas to make getting the lef and the paper separated PLEASE tell me....

I was reading somewhere else where folks were having issues with the copper remaining black... I thought I had the same fate.. and I was seriously bummed. Well I was not having a good florals day either... and had fiddled around too long, and my cousins was putting up shelves in the shop, and the gods were against me, and my bead cracks.. so what the heck.. I was gonna get my revenge on the evil copper leaf butterfly gods.

sooooooo.... I cranked up the torch a little and had an oxidizing flame, and started to heat the dickens out of the bead. I began to see the copper area sort of bubble and boil.. it made my heart go pitty pat... and low and behold, my ugly black butterfly on my cracked bead turned a lovely shade of turquoise green.

So, no I dont have a good bead in the kiln, but it was not wasted time. I learned some stuff today, but I could sure use some easier ways to get the leaf off the paper...

I did put printer paper on each side of the copper leaf which has the separator paper on each side of that... so it was printer paper, thin paper, leaf, thin paper, printer paper in my punch out sandwich.

is there a better order? a voodoo dance I have not learned yet? a speaciual prayer or ritual? someone clue me in please...

thanks in advance,

Candice

RSimmons · #7 2010-03-11, 10:39am

The more expensive punches work better for this sort of thing because they generally have sharper edges on the cutters. Dull edges will force the copper and paper together and make it almost impossible to separate them. Sharp edges will cut through cleanly and you won't have the micro-ragged edges getting tangled up with one another.

When I punch out butterflies I place the copper leaf between two pieces of plain printer paper. Leaving the thin separator paper on the leaf tends to make the edges of the copper stick to the edges of the separator paper. When I get the punch out piece, I very gently rub it between my thumb and forefinger, this loosens one of the paper pieces. If you very gently do this again the copper will generally release from the other paper piece and you can move it to your marver with a set of flat tipped forceps. copper doesn't stick to your skin the same way that silver or gold leaf will.

You've found that focusing the heat on the copper will generate the reaction you want. I usually run my flame across the surface of the bead, just heating that top layer on the first pass, then can go back and hit specific points that might not have reacted as well as a touch-up.

Hope this helps.

Robert

patienthand · #8 2010-03-11, 11:52am

THANK YOU!!!!

I will give it a try tomorrow.

Candice

RSimmons · #9 2010-03-11, 1:55pm

Let me know how it does for you. If you still have problems maybe we can fine-tune it some more.

Robert

patienthand · #10 2010-03-18, 2:02pm

EUREKA!!!

I think I have the copper butterfly thing figured out. I got a few in the kiln today I am happy with. I did what you told me Robert, I put just the paper on each side of the copper, rubbed it lightly between my fingers after punching and managed not mangle too many butterflies before I got them on my marver. I did big butterflies and little ones too.

BBB aka Davina also told me that you can put the punch outs on wet paper towel and pick them up quickly from there, so I also tried that with good success.

The frit I got from thompson is fairly coarse, next time I will get the finer grit. and when I applied it after I had mashed the bead it made a problem with distorting the bead too badly( even with a clear core) before I got it melted in well. So, this time I added the frit before I squished and it went much better.

I also started setting the butterfly higher on the bead instead of centered so I had more space underneath for flowers, and less vacant space at the top of the bead. Will try and post a few pictures on saturday. They are cooling in the kiln now. I am getting a nerve block done tomorrow, so probably wont get them in to soak for mandrel removal till late tomorrow or sat am.

Thanks for all the help... I am having fun.

Candice

Elizabeth Beads · #11 2010-03-18, 2:41pm

Awesome Candice. I roll my bead in enamel before pressing too. Then spot heat the enamel where the punchout goes. I'm using foil and that is not ideal for this use. I'm wodering how gold and palladium leaf would work. Might have to try.
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RSimmons · #12 2010-03-18, 4:55pm

I've tried gold, palladium and 'moongold' leaf and none have worked out well. Gold is soft and sticks to the paper and moongold (gold/palladium alloy) does the same. You can sometimes get an interesting color play with palladium, but mostly it's dull.

Candice, it sounds like you've got it down. I put the color enamel on before I flatten the bead and the white on after, but any way that works for you is great. I'll look forward to seeing your butterflies.

Robert

fyrebeadz* · #13 2010-03-27, 1:05pm

Pics Candice?

blvande · #14 2010-03-28, 3:01pm

I've made two successful butterfly beads with the copper leaf, but I can't do it all the time. I suspect it has to do with the color of the glass used. It works on celedon nicely, not on yellow or white. The copper leaf remains black. Sometimes I get the bluegreen if I encase the bead. Do particular glass rods react with the copper better than others and if so, what the secret?

RSimmons · #15 2010-03-28, 5:11pm

It's not the base glass color that generates the reaction. You need to use white enamel where you place the copper. When you heat the copper and enamel together you get the turquoise reaction product.

Robert