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  #31  
Old 2009-03-06, 5:56pm
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I do believe that sample pages and supplies lists should be available for all pdf tutorials before purchase.

However, I do not believe that NOT having a supplies list is an ethical shortcoming. Seems more like an oversight, or something an author just might not think of doing. I don't believe that authors with no supplies list are trying to trick people into buying their tutorial and then refusing to refund moneys paid.
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  #32  
Old 2009-03-06, 6:00pm
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Mary, I love your new banner! Very cool!
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  #33  
Old 2009-03-06, 6:09pm
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Birdy I have an idea with this problem. Sometimes others should suggest another option to a problem rather than ragging on someone in how they approach their given situation. I think I know who's tutorials you purchased. I just purchased one of hers this past week. She is a very nice lady and I'm pretty sure if you explain your situation to her, and perhaps ask her for permission to resell this tutorial to someone else who might better use it given it's use of particular glass. You've got nothing to lose.
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  #34  
Old 2009-03-06, 6:15pm
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Alex this is a very lovely offer you have proposed.
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  #35  
Old 2009-03-06, 6:28pm
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I think Sheila's suggestion to use cim glass was a good one.
Just thinking of all the possible choices . perfect for shells.
I know that isn't the point here.

I agree tools and glass needed would be very helpful information to have in advance.

feel better Birdy

Last edited by yellowbird; 2009-03-06 at 6:29pm. Reason: forgot
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  #36  
Old 2009-03-06, 9:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex9 View Post
I don't think it sounds stupid at all, and I'm much the same way you are. If it's stated 'no refund' then that's what I go by...it never would have dawned on me either to ask for a refund.

Here's what I'd like to do...I'd like to PayPal you $50...should you get a refund on these tutorials, great! No need to send any money back to me, get yourself a couple more tutorials. I know what you're going through what with meds and not being able to torch, with pain and not being able to torch for very long, and not being able to take classes. This is my gift to you...I'd love for you to accept it. Please PM me your PayPal addy and I'll get it right over to you.
Alex9 - That offer is just way too nice! Can't take you up on it, but it was so sweet that it made me cry. Thank-you so very much for your kindness. It really made my day.

Blessings,
Birdy
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  #37  
Old 2009-03-06, 9:44pm
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Hi Everyone,

I just got home from a wake for a friend who was killed last Sunday in a motorcycle accident and had a message on my answering machine from Diane alerting me to this post on LE. I have just read through all of the posts and I have to say that I’m both shocked and hurt by Birdy’s post, and bolstered and warmed by most of the responses from everyone else. I know that Diane has already responded, but I feel the need to also respond since I too have been personally hurt.

Birdy, clearly you are not happy, but your choice to make your unhappiness a public attack against our integrity I find baffling. What you have done is very hurtful. Diane and I are really nice people with lots of friends who are bead makers. We are both huge supporters of Beads of Courage, and have poured years of our lives into making glass beads and helping other newbie bead makers learn this wonderful art form. For me to come onto LE and see this kind of post brings me to tears. What you have done has hurt both of us deeply, especially since you would have found us very helpful had you just contacted us directly.

When I emailed you the tutorials you purchased, I offered you the option to contact me if you had any questions. Here is the exact wording of the email that I sent you with your 3 tutorials attached.

Birdy,

Here you go - the right handed version of all 3 tutorials. If you are among the first 50 buyers of these three tutorials your name will be entered into the raffles for the beads.

Diane and I hope you have fun with these, and if you have any questions, please let me know.

Becky



Why you chose to question our integrity in front of our friends, colleagues, and customers is beyond me. But not only did you question OUR ethics by saying “…I just expected a higher ethical standard from these particular authors”, you also called Bullseye and Sprectrum glass “weirdo” glass. I’m sure the folks at Bullseye and Spectrum, and all of the wonderful distributors of their glass, many of whom are members of LE, would find it highly offensive to see their glass referred to as “weirdo.”

I guess I just can’t understand WHY you chose to make such a spectacle of something that could have been handled in a civil and friendly manner through one simple email. Had you sent me an email and said, “Becky, as I’m reading through the 2 shell tutorials, I see that you and Diane made many of your beads with Bullseye and Spectrum glass. I don’t have any of either of these types of glass and I can’t afford to buy any. Are there any 104 colors that I can use instead?” I would have emailed you back, and probably posted something on LE for the benefit of others saying, “Birdy, of course you can use 104 COE. I’ve made hundreds of seashells with 104 COE. If you’re looking for something in light caramel color like the color of the small shells we made in the tutorial, try making a striped or twisted cane using ivory and light transparent amber. For the throat of your shells you can use opaque pink, or if you have any CIM pink, you can use that for the throat. The colors will be a little different than the colors we used for the tutorial beads, but shells in nature have all sorts of different colors, so don’t stress over matching your colors to those in the tutorial. We’re not trying to teach you how to make OUR exact beads. We’re trying to teach you how to make our “style” of beads. I’m attaching a photo of some of my 104 COE shells. We prefer 96 and 90 COE, but you can still make great looking shells with 104 COE.” This is exactly how I would have answered a civil inquiry from you.

But you never gave me or Diane the opportunity to help you. I’m hoping that maybe your state of mind is not right because of the pain medicine that you’re on and that you’ll wake up and find out your medication made you say some hurtful things.

For the rest of you who have either purchased the shell tutorials and haven’t tried them yet, or are thinking of buying them, I can’t end without pointing out once more that the type of glass we used for the seashells in our tutorials is only a SUGGESTION!!!!! It is not a requirement. We could just as easily have made the beads for the tutorial in 104 COE and said, “try making these in 96 or 90 COE for a variety of looks. “

What we wanted to teach you with these tutorials, as is the case with almost every bead making tutorial on the market, is our “technique.” Many of you got this idea, that you’re learning a technique. You’re not learning how to make Diane Woodall and Becky Mason beads. We want you to make YOUR beads. And when it comes to seashells, my gosh, there are literally THOUSANDS of shell styles to play with, so just go and HAVE FUN. Many of you have sent us private emails to let us know how much you’re enjoying the tutorials, and we thank you.

Below are examples of some of the 104 COE shells I made several years ago before we developed the more refined designs that we teach you in these tutorials; but as you can see, you don't have to have 96 or 90 COE for shells.



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Last edited by Becky Mason; 2009-03-06 at 10:13pm. Reason: added photos
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  #38  
Old 2009-03-06, 10:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diane Woodall View Post
:::clipped just to save space:::

When we wrote our shell tutorials we wanted to be as honest as possible with our customers about the type of glass we used because we sincerely want everyone to be able to get the best possible results.::clipped to save space::: But it would be unfair of us not to tell you that we use Bullseye when we know that it produces the crispest and most easily sculpted shells.

Diane
Diane: I appreciate your kind and calm response. You perfectly stated the very thing that upsets me about this situation. I buy tutorials to learn the fine details that are discovered with time and lots of experience. Your shells are beautiful, mostly because you are talented and have practiced them, but in good part because you have learned what are the very best materials to make them from.

This is the part that very few of you seem to get: The tutorials that I have complained about are all done with the materials that the writers have determined is the best. That's the good part. The bad part is that I have purchased the tutorials with the expectation that, even though I lack the experience and talent, I can at least practice the technique using the materials that the author believes yields the best results. That's the information that I buy tutorials for --- what was really used to get some beautiful results. When I buy a tutorial and THEN find out that I will not be able to replicate the materials, it makes me feel that the POTENTIAL to make something as lovely has been withheld from me.

It is fine and good to say that other materials can be substituted, but, to the best of my memory, in the tutorials that I have purchased so far where this has been an issue, none of the authors have made a demo bead using the alternative materials. That feels like a falsehood to me. It feel like they are saying, "THIS is what makes the bead absolutely perfect, and I'm only going to make them in the way that I know is best. However, if you have to, you could make do with something else." Sometimes suggestions are made, but sometimes not. And this is what really gets me -- none of the tutorials that I'm referring to actually have pictures of the beads being made with the substitute glass. If it's such a great substitute, and you know that the glass you recommend is no longer made, difficult to get, not likely to be on hand, etc., why aren't the tutorials being created using those "perfectly adequate" substitutes? The reason is most likely because they just don't make as beautiful of a bead. Yes, I can make a bead using a substitute, but I can't make THAT bead, as I can't get those materials.

Diane, there didn't seem to be any reason to contact you about this. You clearly stated that you would not give refunds. OK, I agreed to that. You said that other glass could be used, but didn't use it yourself. I don't want to contact you to have you tell me what kind of stuff I can use to make do. I guess the feeling that this all gives me is that, knowing that you use materials that I can't get is offensive because if I wanted to guess what to use, or try out different substitutes, I wouldn't have bothered buying the tutorial. I would have just looked at the picture for free, and gone to the torch and made my own version of it. I buy the tutorials with the expectation that it is as close as possible to taking a class from a wonderful artist. In a class, I would expect to have access to the materials that the artist would use, not second-rate substitutes. If materials were not provided, then a supply list would be, and I just wouldn't take the class if it were impossible for me to get the materials.

It looks like the part of my post that is offending people the most is that I made reference to ethics. The reason I said that is: If a tutorial writer has years of experience, has been paid to teach classes, especially on that same subject, then they certainly know what materials are needed, and know how important it is for a student to know what they are getting in to. How would everyone feel if that same author offered an in-person class that appeared to be based on 104, then got to the class, told the students that it is actually being taught using boro, but that they could do an ok job with 104. Not as good as the "real thing", but it would be ok. And then do all of the demo using boro, not the substitute 104 glass.

Does anybody at all understand the point that I'm trying to make? I'm beginning to feel like a total lunatic!

Birdy
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  #39  
Old 2009-03-06, 10:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
Diane: I appreciate your kind and calm response. You perfectly stated the very thing that upsets me about this situation. I buy tutorials to learn the fine details that are discovered with time and lots of experience. Your shells are beautiful, mostly because you are talented and have practiced them, but in good part because you have learned what are the very best materials to make them from.

This is the part that very few of you seem to get: The tutorials that I have complained about are all done with the materials that the writers have determined is the best. That's the good part. The bad part is that I have purchased the tutorials with the expectation that, even though I lack the experience and talent, I can at least practice the technique using the materials that the author believes yields the best results. That's the information that I buy tutorials for --- what was really used to get some beautiful results. When I buy a tutorial and THEN find out that I will not be able to replicate the materials, it makes me feel that the POTENTIAL to make something as lovely has been withheld from me.

It is fine and good to say that other materials can be substituted, but, to the best of my memory, in the tutorials that I have purchased so far where this has been an issue, none of the authors have made a demo bead using the alternative materials. That feels like a falsehood to me. It feel like they are saying, "THIS is what makes the bead absolutely perfect, and I'm only going to make them in the way that I know is best. However, if you have to, you could make do with something else." Sometimes suggestions are made, but sometimes not. And this is what really gets me -- none of the tutorials that I'm referring to actually have pictures of the beads being made with the substitute glass. If it's such a great substitute, and you know that the glass you recommend is no longer made, difficult to get, not likely to be on hand, etc., why aren't the tutorials being created using those "perfectly adequate" substitutes? The reason is most likely because they just don't make as beautiful of a bead. Yes, I can make a bead using a substitute, but I can't make THAT bead, as I can't get those materials.

Diane, there didn't seem to be any reason to contact you about this. You clearly stated that you would not give refunds. OK, I agreed to that. You said that other glass could be used, but didn't use it yourself. I don't want to contact you to have you tell me what kind of stuff I can use to make do. I guess the feeling that this all gives me is that, knowing that you use materials that I can't get is offensive because if I wanted to guess what to use, or try out different substitutes, I wouldn't have bothered buying the tutorial. I would have just looked at the picture for free, and gone to the torch and made my own version of it. I buy the tutorials with the expectation that it is as close as possible to taking a class from a wonderful artist. In a class, I would expect to have access to the materials that the artist would use, not second-rate substitutes. If materials were not provided, then a supply list would be, and I just wouldn't take the class if it were impossible for me to get the materials.

It looks like the part of my post that is offending people the most is that I made reference to ethics. The reason I said that is: If a tutorial writer has years of experience, has been paid to teach classes, especially on that same subject, then they certainly know what materials are needed, and know how important it is for a student to know what they are getting in to. How would everyone feel if that same author offered an in-person class that appeared to be based on 104, then got to the class, told the students that it is actually being taught using boro, but that they could do an ok job with 104. Not as good as the "real thing", but it would be ok. And then do all of the demo using boro, not the substitute 104 glass.

Does anybody at all understand the point that I'm trying to make? I'm beginning to feel like a total lunatic!

Birdy
Since you asked, no, I don't understand your point. I also don't understand your continued defense of the use of the word "ethics" either - and your example of boro/104 seems silly.
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  #40  
Old 2009-03-06, 10:48pm
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Quote:
This is the part that very few of you seem to get: The tutorials that I have complained about are all done with the materials that the writers have determined is the best. That's the good part. The bad part is that I have purchased the tutorials with the expectation that, even though I lack the experience and talent, I can at least practice the technique using the materials that the author believes yields the best results. That's the information that I buy tutorials for --- what was really used to get some beautiful results. When I buy a tutorial and THEN find out that I will not be able to replicate the materials, it makes me feel that the POTENTIAL to make something as lovely has been withheld from me.

It is fine and good to say that other materials can be substituted, but, to the best of my memory, in the tutorials that I have purchased so far where this has been an issue, none of the authors have made a demo bead using the alternative materials. That feels like a falsehood to me. It feel like they are saying, "THIS is what makes the bead absolutely perfect, and I'm only going to make them in the way that I know is best. However, if you have to, you could make do with something else." Sometimes suggestions are made, but sometimes not. And this is what really gets me -- none of the tutorials that I'm referring to actually have pictures of the beads being made with the substitute glass. If it's such a great substitute, and you know that the glass you recommend is no longer made, difficult to get, not likely to be on hand, etc., why aren't the tutorials being created using those "perfectly adequate" substitutes? The reason is most likely because they just don't make as beautiful of a bead. Yes, I can make a bead using a substitute, but I can't make THAT bead, as I can't get those materials.
It's kind of amazing that you're expected to get a pass for throwing a mother of a fit because you can't be expected to be perfect all of the time but are expecting the authors to write the perfect tutorial for YOU with all of the guidelines YOU outline.

I kind of feel bad for coming back to this thread but you're coming off sounding pretty entitled and not exhibiting any of the behavior you expect.

Your basic premise is understood. All you really want is for the authors to give you a rough outline of what needs to be used before you purchase the tut. Period, end of story. Easy enough.

Quote:
It looks like the part of my post that is offending people the most is that I made reference to ethics. The reason I said that is: If a tutorial writer has years of experience, has been paid to teach classes, especially on that same subject, then they certainly know what materials are needed, and know how important it is for a student to know what they are getting in to. How would everyone feel if that same author offered an in-person class that appeared to be based on 104, then got to the class, told the students that it is actually being taught using boro, but that they could do an ok job with 104. Not as good as the "real thing", but it would be ok. And then do all of the demo using boro, not the substitute 104 glass.
The difference here is that you would show up to the class and either expect the teacher to have the supplies for you if they didn't tell you beforehand or you would be screwed. With a tutorial, you can purchase the supplies you need AT ANY TIME. You can put this tutorial on a shelf if you don't want to use 104 to make the shells and pull it back out again when you buy some Bullseye or Spectrum. As far as I can tell, the pictures that Becky posted are as good or better in 104 as they would be in the Bullseye.
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  #41  
Old 2009-03-06, 11:10pm
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Birdy,

I happen to think you are a bit out of line here. I think you should have talked to the people you got the tutorial from about this before you came here to the forum and made your comments. I can see you may be frustrated about not having the money to get the exact glass they use in there tutorial but it in know way keeps you from making the beautiful shell beads that they teach in there tutorial. I really think you have handled this badly. I think it goes without saying that you may need to buy things that are used in a tutorial that you may not have on hand maybe you should have asked before you bought it.

I also feel that if you talked with them about your concerns they would have been more than happy to work something out with you.

The way you have handled this is really a bit rude. To call people's integrity into question before you have even given them a chance to work with you is just not nice.

And just for a bit more information. I have taken lots of classes with a lot of wonderful teachers and each one uses there own tools and glasses you never get a full list of every thing that will be used in the class and often find that if you want to do certain things you need to get more tools or supplies.

I think you seem to think that just because you order a tutorial you should just be able to walk out to your studio and make it. If you have such a tight budget maybe it is your responsibility to find out if you may need to get more tools, glass or supplies than you are prepared to buy.

Best of luck to you,

John
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  #42  
Old 2009-03-06, 11:52pm
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Since the tutorial writers in question are not vendors of the glass used in their tutorials, the ethics issue in this case is completely irrelevant. It's not like they have anything to gain if someone decides to buy the glass they recommend. And the idea that they are deliberately trying to mislead others by "tricking" them into buying their tutorials just seems a little paranoid to me.

I'm sure it's frustrating to buy a tutorial and find out one doesn't have the materials/tools on hand, but what I don't understand is why only sellers/teachers/vendors in our industry seem to be held responsible for communication. Just about every purchase we make requires at least a little research on our part, doesn't it? Even groceries.


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Last edited by andreajane; 2009-03-06 at 11:56pm. Reason: added a sentence
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  #43  
Old 2009-03-06, 11:59pm
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HOLY CRAP?! Is this the public lynching of a paying CUSTOMER?

I don't believe what I just read.
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  #44  
Old 2009-03-07, 12:03am
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I'm kinda shocked by both parties actually.
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  #45  
Old 2009-03-07, 1:50am
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Okay I think I see a tutorial different then you do Birdy. A tutorial to me is a guide on how to make a particular design. It totally doesn't matter if the shell is made in bullseye, moretti, boro or satake for all I care.

If a design requires a specific sort of glass it's my experience that this is always mentioned by the author in question ( and they always come up with alternatives if this color is a hard to find color)

I don't see the problem at all since this shell tutorial was meant for the technique of the shells, they didn't sell a particular color recipe without mentioning it was bullseye only, they sold one of their designs wich can be executed in any kind of glass you like.

I'm sorry you feel taken but I think you should have contacted the seller in private.
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  #46  
Old 2009-03-07, 1:59am
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Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
If I wanted to make something out of yarn, I'd have to decide if I wanted to knit or to crochet, then I could buy an appropriate pattern.
While I haven't read the whole thread, I beg to differ. I have NEVER bought a pattern to crochet or knit anything (and I can tell you that DD has tried very hard to talk me out of things I made years and years ago, before my hands started giving out. Things of the size of dresses).

Tutorials are something entirely different to patterns. They show or teach you a technique. Tutorials are to teach techniques. Patterns are to copy.

Techniques I can learn by watching and/or PPP, reading books or tutorials. Patterns I can just vaguely follow, and I have crocheted a coat, a strapless dress that's mostly transparent in a lot of places, well designed as to where not to be, knitted a form fitting dress as well as cable sweaters and Norwegian patterns (without ever buying a pattern).

For lack of local classes I love to watch Joe (of Avenuebeads) torch whenever I can make time to do so (the time difference is often prohibitive for me).
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  #47  
Old 2009-03-07, 3:41am
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Birdy,
YOU ARE BEING RIDICULOUS! I have all three tutorials, and they are explained very well! Besides, it dosn't take a rocket scientist to understand that you may use any glass you prefer. Diane and Becky clearly stated in the tutorial to use stiffer glass as a suggestion. MY GOODNESS .......YOU ARE BEING TOO HARSH!
Use your energy on something a little more constructive....GO MAKE SOME BEADS, HAVE SOME FUN, AND QUIT WHINING!
PLEASE....How about a little imagination, creativity and some good Common Sense! It's people like you that make a person question if they even want to share there skills and knowledge in a tutorial. A tutorial is simply to learn the technique.
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Last edited by charmmenlilly; 2009-03-07 at 4:05am.
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  #48  
Old 2009-03-07, 3:52am
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Forgive me for jumping in, but this is a good example for defining what is purchased when you buy a tutorial. As I understand the tutorial conundrum,presented many a time by many a glass artist among you, the argument is that "refining" of a certain bead type, sculpture type,etc becomes the sole property of the "discovering" artist, subject to the same protection and status as Edisons lightbulb. That may or may not be, but that's not the dogfight I'm looking to roll around in today.(just the main premise for my opinion on the "problem" Birdy has with the tutorial she purchased)
The argument for tutorial sales is one of ownership of a concept that produces an artform that is recognizable to a particular artist . The tutorial's premise is to "share" the process with others. The PROCESS !!! If someone needs the exact color,shape,or
composition of someone elses work, then buy that artist's finished work. The tutorial, any tutorial , is only a means to an end, the road to travel on a journey. I can see listing any special tools one may employ on the journey, but glass type or exact color schemes, not nessecary.Even in the same glass, we all work in somewhat diff. temps. The glass can be stiff or soupy and can mimic different glass types. But what is needed is the initial approache to a particular form.Your own artistic juices should flow strong enough to motor on from there.
So is it a licence to copy, or a road map to a pretty vista. I think the road map. If it's percieved as a licence to copy,I would guess the question of royalties aren't far behind.
As I've confessed before, I'm not totally opposed to tutorial sales, I've purchased tut's myself (Note to Pyper:Your eyecane's are incredible,my Goddess!) and immediately stray from the text after reading.I don't want to be Pyper,I just need help with some forks in the road. And I'm not pulling Pyper pro or con into my argument, just that her tuts are a good example of process sharing rather than copying.
So Birdy, get a grip. Look inward.There's something there or you wouldn't be at a point comfortable enough to complain.Check out the map, gas up the car and begin a journey.
In you.
Kevin
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  #49  
Old 2009-03-07, 4:29am
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Sounds to me like this centers on a person's expectation of a tutorial. If I purchase a tutorial in order to learn the TECHNIQUE, I'm looking to see how the artist manipulates and shapes the glass, encourages reactions, etc. to get the end result.

If I purchase a tutorial to learn to make the EXACT bead the artist created, it stands to reason I would want to use the exact tools and glasses used in the tutorial.

Not to rehash the volumnous posts about this, I get tutorials to learn the technique as a springboard to improve and increase my skills. This is different than, say, a wire wrapping tutorial where I would expect I need to use the specified types/gauges or wire and the specified tool to get a similar result.

I purchase tutorials to expand my knowledge in the lampwork process. When I got AR's batik tut, I got it to learn more about reactions in glass to get the desired effect. Not one of my beads looked like Anne's, and I probably couldn't have "copied" one of hers if I tried. When I saw the cool things I could make happen, it got me thinking, "if I tried this other color, or this other frit, how will the glass behave then?"

If your goal is to copy the beads in the tut, I feel you are limiting yourself and your skills, and really short changing yourself of some fantastic "ah ha!" moments and happy accidents. But if you plan to try to reproduce the beads exactly, you need to be prepared to gather the necessary supplies.
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  #50  
Old 2009-03-07, 4:29am
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If this thread keeps up NO one is going to want to make tutorials anymore. It's sad really.
I'm out of the thread now but am going to put my two cents in.
There are only a few beads that state using bullseye or Spectrum. The one's I've read ARE 104 COE.
I made a few. I understand that we would like to go word for word and color for color when were first learning BUT....is it really that big of a deal?
I'm with Alex....I'll pay for the tutorial if this thread just STOPS!
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  #51  
Old 2009-03-07, 5:57am
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Well after seeing another flambasting of note whether it be right or wrong - I've had enough!! All I can say is these threads are making me very hesitant to purchase tutorials and I think I've purchased my last one.

I agree that Birdy should have contacted the tut writes first but watching the direction that this thread is going is quite simply SAD!! Some of you (and yes I used the generalisation of 'you') should be ashamed of yourselves and of the flambasting you have felt to dish out.
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Old 2009-03-07, 7:21am
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It would have been nice to know beforehand that Bullseye was the glass of choice
If 104 was also a choice it would have been nice to have pictures of those as well as recommendations as to colors......
just sayin'


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  #53  
Old 2009-03-07, 8:06am
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Wow, I just finished a tutorial. This makes me very hesitant to even offer it. It does not though, make me hesitant to buy one. I would have figured the glass issue out for myself or asked the author! Seems like your always screwed on this forum no matter how nice or helpful you are. Maybe the auhtors should have to show the whole tut before selling it just to make sure no one has a problem with it. Get it critiqued by EVERYONE and make sure EVERYONE says it's ok to sell. Maybe ask permission to sell it first? Otherwise, this happens.
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Old 2009-03-07, 8:18am
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Once again, I think there is a lot to be learned from this thread, not that I think the "rant" was appropriate, but I do believe it brings up some good points, although not the ones necessarily that the OP probably expected.

Most tutorial authors are experienced glass beadmakers and can make their beads with different glasses with ease. I think more experience glassworkers realize that the glasses are pretty much the same, but have to be worked a little different to achieve the same results. I can make my dragons with BE and with 104. It absolutely makes no difference, though I am more familiar with that "weirdo" glass called Bullseye and its reactions.

I think what needs to be kept in mind when creating a tutorial is that we really should define what type of tutorial it is, technique or pattern. There is a big difference, and if someone buys the tutorial as a pattern, then they could feel disappointed by the fact that they do not have the exact supplies. Perhaps pattern authors should put together an optional kit with the exact glasses/tools needed to complete the project. I've seen that done in the aforementioned knitting and crocheting pattern projects.

However, I think most experienced glass beadmakers will be buying the tutorials to learn techniques and it matters very little what kind of glass is used. It all leads to the same place, knowledge of how to handle glass.
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Old 2009-03-07, 8:24am
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Tutorials that offer a technique that can expand someones knowledge base will always have a market.I don't see any responses that where incorrect as to the question of Birdie getting short-changed with her purchase of 3 techniques, which was her initial claim. Taking the time to experiment with colors, and their reactions with other colors,as well as searching for the treasure trove of older threads on the subject, will result in pieces that exceed the beauty of the originals. Get a grip,kids. Birdie's premise, that the tut's are of no value to her as-is due to the choice of glass, is flawed.
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Old 2009-03-07, 8:42am
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Quote from etsy ......
Focal Shells (fan shell, conch shell, sand dollar) NOTE: We use some Bullseye, Spectrum and Moretti/Vetrofond glass in our tutorial, but you can use any soft glass of your choice.

Ummmmmmm whats the problem ? Or was this added after the start of this thread ?
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Old 2009-03-07, 8:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silkys View Post
Quote from etsy ......
Focal Shells (fan shell, conch shell, sand dollar) NOTE: We use some Bullseye, Spectrum and Moretti/Vetrofond glass in our tutorial, but you can use any soft glass of your choice.

Ummmmmmm whats the problem ? Or was this added after the start of this thread ?

I believe that was added afterward...
I am happy with the tutorials, I think I can and will learn a lot from them
Just dissapointed in the fact that I have no Bullseye and don't plan on getting any in the near future, I am on a HH and have enough trouble with melting 104 lol!
I'm sure at some point I will try to match up some of the 104 colors with those of the bullseye line...or just take a stab at it....but it would have been nice to try to make one like pictured in the tutorial first....

granny
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Old 2009-03-07, 9:06am
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You know I understand that Birdy may have felt disappointed and feels she did not have the information up front that is important to her. If you look at the description of there tut is says that it uses BE, spectrum and 104 glass in the tut. Now maybe they changed it after this whole thing came up and I suspect if Birdy would have contacted them about this situation something would have been worked out.

But Birdy comes in here swinging and all but calls the writers of these tutorials crooks.

I for one see that as mean rude and just plain not nice people should get upset about this and now come the folk with this is just a bash fest get over it.

Birdy was wrong to handle this in this way she should have contacted Becky and Diane first they worked really hard to put this tutorial together I saw a few weeks ago how excited they were to be spending time together and make this tutorial. It is out for a few days and they get totally trashed not nice.

I also agree with Pam there are some good things to learn and think about in this tread for people who make and sell tutorials as well as the buyers but this was totally the wrong way to handle this situation.

Have a good weekend,

John
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Old 2009-03-07, 9:06am
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This issue was touched on here: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=105278
I feel when you are trying to learn something new that you have paid for that you should start with all of the correct tools. I was very disappointed when my DH purchased me a tutorial for our anniversary and I had to order something to use the tut.
Beth
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  #60  
Old 2009-03-07, 9:15am
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Hey Beth,
I do think that the basic idea of posting tools and glass needed in a tutorial is a good idea.

But to start a tread like this without even one contact with Becky is not right.

John
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