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  #1  
Old 2010-01-29, 9:14am
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Charmaine Charmaine is offline
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Default a cautionary tale about tutorial sent via email

just found out from Paypal that a payment received from R. Smith over 12 days ago was refused for NSF. Since it was an electronic submission (of course I sent the tutorial immediately, Paypal said I got paid for it) I am out of luck, out of money, and the defrauder received a free tutorial. Now I realize that this is one out of many, but what a sucky thing to do.
What I don't understand in the age of technology is why Paypal doesn't actually make sure they actually HAVE the funds before they tell me I've got money? I was just stunned at this practice.
And there is NO protection for me, unless I send a tangible CD through the mail, with a tracking number to prove it was sent and received.
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Check out my Encasing and HOLLOW tri-color Tutorials in my Etsy shop-and my NEW encased, layered, feathered bead!

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Last edited by Charmaine; 2010-01-29 at 9:56am.
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  #2  
Old 2010-01-29, 9:19am
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There's a post in the bathroom about this - Mary (Moth) & Sandy Cowan were hit, too. Who else, I wonder?
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  #3  
Old 2010-01-29, 9:29am
slcuniques slcuniques is offline
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I got the same response Charmaine.
Capt Ron hit me for 3 tutorials and it was charged back this morning.
Are we going to have to resort back to US MAIL, to protect ourselves now? Sheesh!
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  #4  
Old 2010-01-29, 9:36am
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All, you should be able to get the person's phone # from paypal to attempt to clear the dispute. Then you should be able to find out their real name.

Also, everyone, you need to call and tell Paypal that this person is doing it serially, setting a pattern and they will put the account under review.

Don't just accept it. It took us months to get Ullja's paypal shut down.
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  #5  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:00am
slcuniques slcuniques is offline
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THIS IS CAPT. RON

ETSY USER NAME IS sundown487
Here are the details about this transaction:
Item: Pleated Vessel Tutorial (quantity: 1)
Transaction ID: 24275757
Item price: $16.00
Shipping cost: $0.00

Item: Sea Horse Tutorial w/Bonus Murex Shell tutorial (quantity: 1)
Transaction ID: 24275756
Item price: $25.00
Shipping cost: $0.00


Total Sale: $41.00 (USD)
Payment Type: PayPal
Shipping Address:
Cheryl Curran
1311 NE Franklin
Sarcoxie Missouri 64862
Country: United States
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  #6  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:04am
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Default tut

I think I will call them back, and tell them what's going on with this person. I hate when I'm naive to the loopholes, and people take advantage.

I have to say also that NO one else has ever done this to me, and 99.9% of the people who purchase anything online or otherwise are honest and the transaction is smooth and without incident. (I did have one person give me a bogus CC for the purchase of a pair of sterling religious cross earrings. WWJD?)

It also seems ridiculous to wait 2 weeks until paypal is SURE they have the money before releasing the tut, (did anyone else know it could happen like this, 12 days after the transaction??) but I certainly can send it via the mail-just what people want, all their tutorials on individual CDs...
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  #7  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:10am
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I didn't want to say anything and now I wish I did. I thought it would be too easy for someone to steal tutorials in the way that you described. No tracking number and Paypal? I thought that would be risky.

There has to be a way for sellers to protect themselves, isn't there?? Sellers of e-books have been around for a long time, so I wonder how they protect themselves from rip-off?
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  #8  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:22am
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Default tut fraud

I guess my issue is that Paypal dumps the blame on me, without acknowledging that they shouldn't release funds (or say that I have been paid) unless they actually HAVE the funds. How is it that it took them 2 weeks to determine, oh, well, gosh, I guess he really didn't have the money. Too bad for you!
And you're right, A LOT of stuff is sent/purchased electronically, and we think nothing of it. Just because there isn't a paper trail, that doesn't mean that the thing doesn't exist. But what a great way to deny responsibility for not holding up their end to make sure the funds were available.
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  #9  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:27am
slcuniques slcuniques is offline
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I'm thinking this.
Why not continue to sell electronically, but follow up with a usps mail, letter to the buyer with the written link in the letter. That should be enough back up to follow along the guidelines PP want. Mail the letter with a deliver confirmation.
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  #10  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:29am
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PayPal is just like a bank ! if you deposit a customers check and it bounces the money is taken back out of your account and its up to you to go get the money. You have legal rights but you still have to go get the money. At my pops shop we have a collection guy that comes in once a month and gets our collection accounts and charges us 40 % if he gets the money, But that the price of doing business. We lost over 10g last year with bad checks and bankruptcy's. Things are tough everywhere and people are taking advantage of the new technology.
Being a business is not all fun and games anymore.
maybe only take charge cards and don't except checks or bank accounts? can that be done ?

AcidFly
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  #11  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:33am
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Yes, it is totally sucky, but it is also part of the cost of doing business. I know, that sounds harsh. And just because stuff like this happens, that doesn't make it right. But do you know what percentage of merchandise is "lifted" from regular brick and mortar stores? Those thefts are factored in as part of the cost of doing business.

Some of us who are NOT business people, really expect everything to always be on the up and up and are floored when we get scammed. People in retail wouldn't bat an eye.

Again, in no way am I saying it's right, but I am trying to say that the occasional time(s) an online seller is duped is usually few and far between. Running a business is NEVER going to be without glitches (or assholes). But if you're like me, in over 12 years of online selling, you are very fortunate to be able to count on one hand the number of times something like this has happened.
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  #12  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:34am
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and the 2 week thing is they try and withdraw from the bank account and if it fails they wait a week and try again, then if it fails then they just take the money back.

AcidFly
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  #13  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:35am
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I think we found a lead here folks:


http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/loc...l?start:int=15

Check out the first comment on the bottom. (CaptnRon)
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Old 2010-01-29, 10:36am
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I got a chargeback notice last night for this customer. *sigh* Of course it's the month that I'm struggling just to make rent, and just when I thought I was making progress, I get the notice. I just don't understand how people rip off small businesses like us. We are artists, do they really think we are raking in the $? It's just mean spirited.

Also, I checked my payment notification and it told me that it was ok to ship when I got the payment. What if this had been a $400 physical item and this had happened? The $ would have been taken right out of my account and I would have had to go through a full dispute process to maybe, possibly get it back? That doesn't get the bills paid on time. I have never had this happen. :/ I thought when I had the ok to ship, the money was in MY account.
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  #15  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:36am
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Wow, I had no idea. I prefer PayPal when I sell anything online, but if a person wants to use a check or money order then they have to wait 10 working days before I ship. Now I find out that I can get a NSF notice from PayPal !?!? Wholy Moly !
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  #16  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:38am
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Very true about the infrequency of people trying to rip you off-I have been doing retail shows for years, and truly, most people don't scam you. but you're right, when it happens to you, you (and it looks like many others) feel pretty darn stupid. True, it's just one tutorial, but I liked to think that lampworkers wouldn't do that to each other. I hope he used up a printer cartridge printing them out.
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  #17  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:39am
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Link dead !!

AcidFly

Quote:
Originally Posted by pierces*designs View Post
I think we found a lead here folks:


http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/loc...l?start:int=15

Check out the first comment on the bottom. (CaptnRon)
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  #18  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:40am
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http://www.joplinglobe.com/local/loc...l?start:int=15
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  #19  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:41am
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I kind of agree Laura. If I were doing shows, I would lose more in one day than I've lost in 12 years selling online.

This is only the second time I've been robbed. The first one was for a seed beaded amulet bag I sold for $180 to someone in singapore. They got it, then did a chargeback. That really stung.

This one cost me significantly LESS and I'm not out anything physically tangible. It could be worse. But as with any robbery, it isn't the material loss that hurts. It's the deception, the violation, the erosion of trust in humans.

Anyway, I started a thread in the bathroom about this buttwipe. I didn't realize there was already one going. It appears my situation is slightly different. I did NOT get an insufficient funds explanation. Mine was a cut and dry reversal- chargeback. They disputed the charge and took back their money.

My contact info is also slightly different:
Ronald Smith
1311 NE Franklin
Sarcoxie, MO 64862
United States

Hope that helps build something against him.
~~Mary
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  #20  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:42am
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I got hit too on SE4. What sucks is that he also purchased SE1, SE2 and SE3 a few days before SE4 so I am basically sitting here waiting for the charge back on the other ebooks.

SE4 was done via instant download with proof of download but PayPal said no electronic purchases is covered under the seller's protection program. However, if enough of us make noise, PayPal will likely close down Ron Smith's account.

----------------
From Paypal:
We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer's bank.

As a result, we have reversed the following transaction:
Transaction date: Jan. 19, 2010
Transaction amount: $19.00 USD
Buyer's email: captnron03@yahoo.com
Buyer's name: Ron Smith
Your transaction ID: 26P02001F0148025U

----------------------
From Etsy Transaction:
Ron Smith
captnron03@yahoo.com
417-548-4013

Shipping address - unconfirmed
Ron Smith
1311 NE Franklin
Sarcoxie, MO 64862
United States
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  #21  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:45am
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good one deb lol

AcidFly
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  #22  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:48am
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Thank you Mary and Charmaine for understanding my point and not thinking I was saying something like "So what". heh

I still CLEARLY remember the one and only time (so far) I've had a PayPal chargeback. I was floored... on many levels.

I didn't understand how it could happen... either the money was there for PayPal to take from them and give to me... or it wasn't. You can't have it both ways.

In the end, I discovered there was 0% recourse from my end of things. The person had received my item and still got to keep their money.

I also wonder... what if next time it's a big ticket item. That could KILL me... I live paycheck to paycheck (like most of us here do) and having several hundred dollars ripped out of my PayPal account when I least expect it could have huge ramifications.
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  #23  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:52am
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Remember guys, this works both ways. I purchased a piece of software for my phone, thinking I was paying via paypal so I was safe it is didn't work. It doesn't work, the seller refuses to answer my emails. I filed a claim with paypal and got this as a response.

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund.

Mine was only $5, so I am lucky but make sure when you are buying, as well as selling that you know who you are dealing with.
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  #24  
Old 2010-01-29, 10:53am
AcidFly AcidFly is offline
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Yes laura I agree. I never trusted PayPal and never leave any money in there. Might be worth looking into setting up your own Credit card accounts ? in most cases its cheaper then the charges paypal gets.
just a Idea !!
Also I'm so sorry you guys got ripped hope you can work it out somehow
AcidFly
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  #25  
Old 2010-01-29, 11:07am
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I just learned something else new...I can't block buyers on Etsy. There's a petition going, so I joined that, but I can't figure out why Etsy wouldn't add this feature. I'm getting my Etsy education this morning.
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  #26  
Old 2010-01-29, 11:07am
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I've been had too! What a crock!
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  #27  
Old 2010-01-29, 11:15am
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Puddy Tat Glass Puddy Tat Glass is offline
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Default Etsy Petition for Block Buyers Feature

The petition is in the "Forums - Ideas" section of Etsy, here's a link for anyone who'd like to chime in or add their name to the growing list:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6215364
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  #28  
Old 2010-01-29, 11:22am
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The person definitely lives in Sarcoxie Missouri. People have been shipping physical items there.

Call the paper I linked to above and tell them what is going on. Get them investigating

Phone: 417.623.3480, 1.800.444.8514
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  #29  
Old 2010-01-29, 11:29am
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google the Cheryl Curran name with Sarcoxie. Brent Curran's Facebook comes up. He has Cheryl as a friend. Both Cheryl and Brent are friends with both a Ron and a Ronald Smith. They've got to connect with all this....
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Old 2010-01-29, 11:37am
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And if they are not, then they should be mighty pizzed that someone is using their identity!!
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