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  #61  
Old 2010-09-19, 6:57pm
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Holly, I didn't say next door..and if you are going to speak another's words, I would think you would not mind just saying who it is.......but if you were going for the "slap in the face" to me, you accomplished it...way to go...I have been properly put in my place.
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  #62  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberly View Post
There have been many good ideas and suggestions presented in this thread. I plan on using several of them.

I do have a question though. If I take out the biographical information, add or take away photos, edit my wordiness and add some printable Handy Hints, how do I address the changes with people who have previously purchased that tutorial?? Do I offer to send them a new "edition" or do I simply offer the new edition to new purchasers and send the new edition to those that ask? There are a number of tutorial buyers reading this thread and I am really interested in their responses!



I am very curious as to why you would find this odd. There are many excellent writers on LE. Why is that surprising? What does being vocal online have to do with writing skills?
no, why would you do that? it just becomes a new edition of your tutorial - passing the flame is a good example, my recent copy is nothing like the original and i doubt she sends a new one to everyone who bought it when she makes a change
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  #63  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilicaForge View Post
To the tutorial writers on the verge of suicide over this. CALM DOWN. You are over-reacting. I very much doubt these suggestions were meant to destroy you.
OK. I know I said I was done...but surprisingly I must not be because how could I possibly not reply to this? First of all, I'm not suicidal...I'm defensive and offended. Did you not read a single word I wrote? What part of 'the tips are great' did you miss?

If you need me to put a finer point on it than in my last post, here is the part I have issues with(and I'm not alone).

I've written in blue behind each sentence how I felt when I read it. It doesn't matter if you understand why I felt that way. This paragraph does NOTHING to support a feeling of camaraderie or whatever is supposedly missing from this big happy glass family that is falling apart because I want paid for work done.

"With the abundance of tutorials flooding the market , I have to say, I haven’t been in a rush to buy even one (Congratulations for making me feel wanted.) . It seems that no one (Really? No one? ) is selling the volume of beads they were before (That's because people quit friggin' buying them) , and are instead trying to sell a tutorial on how to make “their” signature bead. (Um...not how it happened for me. First, I hate that signature bead crap. I didn't quit selling beads so I could sell tutorials instead. I want to have both in my shop. If you must know I wrote and listed tutorials right alongside my beads for a long time, then life got in the way of my torch and thank God I had those tutorials in there to keep me afloat until I got my act together. I don't owe anyone that explanation and resent that you presumed to know my motivations.)Frankly, I have very mixed feelings… I would be nowhere without the abundance of free tutorials out there (and I wonder where all these “professional” (What is with the quotation marks like you're questioning MY professionalism?) tutorial writers would be without them either!). (And where would I be without all the information I PAID for along with it?)" quoted from Holly's article.

This paragraph made me feel unappreciated, unworthy, and hurt that someone thinks I'm a greedy, self-serving wannabe looking to make a fast buck on suckers who don't know any better.

So I get done reading that lovely message and get to read through a whole list of tips on how I'm doing it wrong from someone who had never even seen one of the glass tutorials she was criticizing. Ironically enough, the tips ARE actually great. LOL

No, I'm not suicidal. I'm frustrated that even though I've explained several times that it is not the tips and suggestions I'm offended by, people don't seem to get it.

Posts just keep saying things like "these suggestions weren't meant to destroy you". Yeah, no kidding. It's not the suggestions that bothered me. Or like, "I'm just frustrated with the quality of the work". No. That's not it. How could you be frustrated with a quality of work you had not even seen at the time you wrote this?

When I posted my last post I had made peace with the fact that Holly defends her position and doesn't value what I'm doing. That's fine. We are all different and we are all entitled to our opinions. It's cool. I don't have to like everything that goes on in the glass world either. LOL

No...it is the posts still thinking that what some of us are worked up about are the tips and suggestions. It's not the tips. GEEZ.

~~Mary

Seriously freakin' done now.
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  #64  
Old 2010-09-19, 7:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittypat View Post
Holly, I didn't say next door..and if you are going to speak another's words, I would think you would not mind just saying who it is.......
Corina, right? You're talking about Corina. There....I said it. Am I right?
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  #65  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:08pm
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LOL...Amy, I ThinK you are RIGHT!!! But then I am not to ASSUME..........and for all of this, you and Moth are sooooooo above it all...nice or nothing at all my MeMa told me....
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Last edited by pittypat; 2010-09-19 at 8:13pm. Reason: add to
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  #66  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:14pm
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LOL...Amy, I ThinK you are RIGHT!!! But then I am not to ASSUME..........
pat
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  #67  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:16pm
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Me, too....and most of the time, I am SO out of the loop!! Now go and post some more gorgeous storm beads!! They always make me smile....pat
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  #68  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:17pm
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Where are you, Squidie...I know the bus has landed!!! LOL...................pat
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  #69  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:26pm
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Pat, No, you said "from her area" which to me... means local as in the greater So. Cal area. She is not and whoever asked.. NO, it's NOT Corina.

Why not "call someone out?"

a) I expressed my opinion to her in person
b) I like her
c) I buy a lot of beads from her when I do have money
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Last edited by Holly'sFolly; 2010-09-19 at 8:40pm. Reason: typo
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  #70  
Old 2010-09-19, 8:40pm
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Mary,

OH. MY. GOD! I don't know where to start....

This was not directed at you. The whole first section you take such issue with (which seems to have hit a nerve with everyone) was about ME.... not YOU or anyone else. It was about my fear of committing hard to come by dollars based on my experience at editing other people's stuff, reading tuts in glass magazines that supposedly have an editor (I canceled my subscription to one for a long period of time due to poor writing and editing.)

I honestly was not aware that you personally had written any.

The word professional had to do with being a professional WRITER not a beadmaker. One of the things I saw while producing with HGTV was craft magazines figuring out that Suzy Q Crafter at home was willing to write how-to articles for free for free product and that they could save money not hiring a designer who... actually knew how to write for magazines. They failed to realize what they were saving in design fees was being spent on time delays and editorial costs or sacrificed in quality of the projects.

Furthermore, they often took these same women (mostly) to trade shows and then wondered why no on was watching the demos or booking them for television. All I was saying is that because someone makes a great bead does not make her a professional writer.

And, while I don't profess to know EVERYONE in the glass world, I do know a lot. Without fail EVERYONE I KNOW is not selling the volume of beads as before. I never said anyone gave up beadmaking to sell tuts.

You are taking all of it way too personally when really, I don't know you! I din't write about you. I wrote a list of tips and and intro explaining WHY I WANTED to write a list of tips. THAT IS ALL!

Like with any tutorial, use what you can, ignore the rest...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
OK. I know I said I was done...but surprisingly I must not be because how could I possibly not reply to this? First of all, I'm not suicidal...I'm defensive and offended. Did you not read a single word I wrote? What part of 'the tips are great' did you miss?

If you need me to put a finer point on it than in my last post, here is the part I have issues with(and I'm not alone).

I've written in blue behind each sentence how I felt when I read it. It doesn't matter if you understand why I felt that way. This paragraph does NOTHING to support a feeling of camaraderie or whatever is supposedly missing from this big happy glass family that is falling apart because I want paid for work done.

"With the abundance of tutorials flooding the market , I have to say, I haven’t been in a rush to buy even one (Congratulations for making me feel wanted.) . It seems that no one (Really? No one? ) is selling the volume of beads they were before (That's because people quit friggin' buying them) , and are instead trying to sell a tutorial on how to make “their” signature bead. (Um...not how it happened for me. First, I hate that signature bead crap. I didn't quit selling beads so I could sell tutorials instead. I want to have both in my shop. If you must know I wrote and listed tutorials right alongside my beads for a long time, then life got in the way of my torch and thank God I had those tutorials in there to keep me afloat until I got my act together. I don't owe anyone that explanation and resent that you presumed to know my motivations.)Frankly, I have very mixed feelings… I would be nowhere without the abundance of free tutorials out there (and I wonder where all these “professional” (What is with the quotation marks like you're questioning MY professionalism?) tutorial writers would be without them either!). (And where would I be without all the information I PAID for along with it?)" quoted from Holly's article.

This paragraph made me feel unappreciated, unworthy, and hurt that someone thinks I'm a greedy, self-serving wannabe looking to make a fast buck on suckers who don't know any better.

So I get done reading that lovely message and get to read through a whole list of tips on how I'm doing it wrong from someone who had never even seen one of the glass tutorials she was criticizing. Ironically enough, the tips ARE actually great. LOL

No, I'm not suicidal. I'm frustrated that even though I've explained several times that it is not the tips and suggestions I'm offended by, people don't seem to get it.

Posts just keep saying things like "these suggestions weren't meant to destroy you". Yeah, no kidding. It's not the suggestions that bothered me. Or like, "I'm just frustrated with the quality of the work". No. That's not it. How could you be frustrated with a quality of work you had not even seen at the time you wrote this?

When I posted my last post I had made peace with the fact that Holly defends her position and doesn't value what I'm doing. That's fine. We are all different and we are all entitled to our opinions. It's cool. I don't have to like everything that goes on in the glass world either. LOL

No...it is the posts still thinking that what some of us are worked up about are the tips and suggestions. It's not the tips. GEEZ.

~~Mary

Seriously freakin' done now.
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  #71  
Old 2010-09-19, 11:38pm
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I would like to add to this thread from my perspective;

Living so far from all the lampwork artists that teach classes & take the workshops that are available in the USA, it is highly unlikely that I will ever be able to attend one. I dream of watching an accomplished lampworker & picking up the subtle nuances that are not able to be picked up in any medium outside of the studio/classroom.

Quite simply, for me & I am sure many others, tutorials can be a sanity saver. Some are better than others, I agree on that much, but essentially it’s not about the writing or the presentation....it’s about the information or technique that is offered. Between the images & the written information we are going to learn a technique or style if that is what we want to do. I haven’t yet purchased a tutorial that I have learned nothing from, regardless of how they are presented.

I enjoy that some tutorial writers let their sense of humour show in through their writing or tell me a bit about themselves, especially when it is what fascinates, inspires or motivates them. It makes it more like being in a class situation. It also doesn’t bother me that some pointers may be repeated; once again a teacher in a class situation would most likely be walking around doing the same.

It seems to me that in the USA essentially anyone with the drive & determination can get published or at least self publish a book. A lot of the books that I would love to buy never make it onto the shelves in New Zealand & those that do can be hideously expensive, running at over $60.00 for what might sell in the USA for $15.00.
Places such as Amazon are great even with the shipping costs involved in sending overseas! However I have purchased books that were a complete waste of shelf space. Just because a book is published & available to purchase doesn’t guarantee that it is a good book or even well written. Without the luxury of being able to pick a book up & have a look through it prior to purchase this is just a risk one has to take.

The bottom line, for me, is that a tutorial is no more or less a risk that ordering a book online. It is certainly less expensive & always more specific to what I want to learn or improve. The added bonus is that I don’t have to buy a book full of designs or techniques just to learn the single one I want to know how to do or need help with. Without fail I have learned at least something from every tutorial I have purchased. I think of them along similar lines to sewing or knitting patterns.....& often the directions or sizing in those aren’t perfect for everyone or their way of learning either
Yet people still buy them!
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  #72  
Old 2010-09-20, 7:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfectDeb View Post
no, why would you do that? it just becomes a new edition of your tutorial - passing the flame is a good example, my recent copy is nothing like the original and i doubt she sends a new one to everyone who bought it when she makes a change
I disagree at least with your example because
I could sell my first edition of PTF if I wanted.
Since that is not the case with an ebook I would think
the author would send any additional information .
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  #73  
Old 2010-09-20, 7:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squid View Post
I understand you disagree with me, but I am telling you how it comes across. You ask someone questions and when they decline to answer and tell you it is in a tutorial they will have out soon, you are offended and as a result do not buy beads, tutorials or anything else from that person. That sounds entitled to me.

Well, Squid, maybe you needed to be there. I have spent hundreds of dollars in support of this artist for things she makes (no specifics). She had demoed this very tutorial item FOR OUR GROUP before. I was trying to inquire about a very expensive tool and she INTERRUPTED me TWICE to say, "buy the tutorial." I have shared my own techniques with her on numerous occasions. I have talked up her products in my classes to my students for not even a "thank you". For her to not even hear my full question before interrupting me TWICE (and other people were in earshot - there was eyerolling!), that's rude. And I can happily spend my money elsewhere.
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  #74  
Old 2010-09-20, 7:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
Well, Squid, maybe you needed to be there. I have spent hundreds of dollars in support of this artist for things she makes (no specifics). She had demoed this very tutorial item FOR OUR GROUP before. I was trying to inquire about a very expensive tool and she INTERRUPTED me TWICE to say, "buy the tutorial." I have shared my own techniques with her on numerous occasions. I have talked up her products in my classes to my students for not even a "thank you". For her to not even hear my full question before interrupting me TWICE (and other people were in earshot - there was eyerolling!), that's rude. And I can happily spend my money elsewhere.
You made it sound like it had happened numerous times in this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
The camaraderie issue has happened to me more on a one on one basis. I'm more of the type... if you share something with me in a situation like that, I would RATHER buy a BEAD or set and support another artist that way. Or take a class and buy a bead if they teach. I'm often so shocked when someone says something like that to me that I buy nothing... no beads, no tuts, never a class!
This is what I think makes it sound like feel entitled to the info.
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  #75  
Old 2010-09-20, 8:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
The get to the point part actually came about after reading a free tut posted here. We work with FIRE.. having paper nearby isn't exactly... safe. And the writer took 62 words to say what boiled down to:

Melt frit. Spot heat. Chill with brass marver.

62 words!!!! Really!????!!!

I often take my tuts and copy and paste the pics into a file and re-write the copy for soemthing smaller / quicker to glance at while at the torch.
When I wrote my books, I actually took the pictures in a way that I felt needed no text at all. I wanted my pictures to tell the story. Before adding any text, I had a friend follow the pictures to make some of the things in my book, and when he ran into problems I took new photos to better explain what is going on.

True, there is text with each of my pictures, but I like to think that someone can take my books to the torch with them and follow along with the projects without having to read anything.
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  #76  
Old 2010-09-20, 10:16am
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Cosmo, Sounds great! Good pictures... really ARE worth a 1000 words and MORE!

Squid, I have had this happen to me more than once ESPECIALLY since selling tuts became so popular. It is weird in a setting where there is such a great exchange to have someone push buying their tut on you in such a forceful manner. It is a put off, especially when I've already spent mucho dinero supporting this person.
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  #77  
Old 2010-09-20, 12:54pm
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I'm not commenting on anyone in particular or telling anyone what to do, but I've noticed that if I give out a "free tip" here and there, people are more likely to buy my books from me.
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  #78  
Old 2010-09-20, 7:23pm
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I'm sad that this very helpful discussion has gotten siderailed. I think that Holly made some valid suggestions from a professional standpoint. It was advice given in good faith & it's up to the tutorial writers to take any of her suggestions or not.

I'm not a tute writer myself, but if I were I'd be thrilled to get a professional's advice. That being said, I have great admiration for the talent & writings of the talented artists whose tutorials I've purchased. Some could have benefited from her advice, though I am not dissatisfied with any I've personally purchased. I read her post as helpful advice. Nothing more, nothing less.

& Cosmo, I feel fortunate to have taken classes with you in the past. Unfortunately for us in the northeast there are very few opportunities to take classes. You are a wonderful teacher & I found you to be extremely helpful & willing to share your vast knowledge. I know you weren't @ beadfest this year & neither was I. Hopefully next year.
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  #79  
Old 2010-09-20, 7:30pm
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Lea, Thank you for the kind words!
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  #80  
Old 2010-09-20, 11:10pm
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Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
Well, Squid, maybe you needed to be there. I have spent hundreds of dollars in support of this artist for things she makes (no specifics). She had demoed this very tutorial item FOR OUR GROUP before. I was trying to inquire about a very expensive tool and she INTERRUPTED me TWICE to say, "buy the tutorial." I have shared my own techniques with her on numerous occasions. I have talked up her products in my classes to my students for not even a "thank you". For her to not even hear my full question before interrupting me TWICE (and other people were in earshot - there was eyerolling!), that's rude. And I can happily spend my money elsewhere.
Knowing you Holly I believe that you extended this advice on how to write tutorials in the kindest of ways. I am sorry you are being attacked. After reading about your experience with this 'famous beadmaker'..........I also would spend my money elsewhere. Too bad, too. Sometimes the smallest thing can make all the difference in how you are perceived.

The tips you offered are very nice and so professional. It seems one should feel thankful you are so willing to offer assistance and advice with your vast knowledge and experience. It really boils down to self evaluation. I often read things like this and self reflect, is this something I can put to use? Is it helpful? Will it make me better?

My hubby often tells me that some people can't be taught because they have the perception they already know it all or that they do not 'need' help. Sad, but it is so true.
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  #81  
Old 2010-09-20, 11:17pm
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Originally Posted by cc2 View Post
Sometimes the smallest thing can make all the difference in how you are perceived.
This is so very true.
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  #82  
Old 2010-09-20, 11:28pm
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Let's just remember that we tend to read a "tone" into something that is ours and not necessarily at all what the writer intended.
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  #83  
Old 2010-09-21, 7:55am
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This is so very true.
Isn't it though?
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  #84  
Old 2010-09-21, 8:32am
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Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
I just came from a bead meeting where I asked someone with a tut about a tool; I'm dirt poor right now and I see NO point in buying a tut if I don't have the correct tool. Not once but twice, I heard the phrase "it's in my tut...." ...
This is exactly what happened to me. No tools or materials were listed so I asked (in public) and was ignored by the author, but someone who had bought the tutorial said absolutely minimal cost materials and I probably had them on hand already.

Not.

Not on hand... not minimal cost.

Author didn't want to divulge the needed tools because she felt that was part of the propriatary info of her tutorial.

I learned a lot about tutorials with that experience and what to look for next time.

Prior to that, I was a tutorial newb. One can learn pretty fast, though.
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  #85  
Old 2010-09-21, 8:37am
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Originally Posted by Moth View Post
... Tutorial writers aren't a group of people getting together and writing this stuff. They are individuals with their own reasons, their own perceptions and their own motives. Painting us with a broad brush is unfair...
100% correct!

Some people are really good at it and others leave me with the impression they decided to write a tutorial because it's a good way to make money and they could figure something out to write about.

As opposed to those who already have something to share and then decide to write a tutorial.

There are so many factors that go into a well-written tutorial:
A unique technique
Good writing/editing
Excellent photos
Perfect explanations (even lengthy ones... use the hand hints cards if you're a minimalist)
A comprehensive list of tools needed to complete the tutorial
A list of needed materials (wriggle room here, but at least try)
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  #86  
Old 2010-09-21, 8:43am
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... If I take out the biographical information, add or take away photos, edit my wordiness and add some printable Handy Hints, how do I address the changes with people who have previously purchased that tutorial?? Do I offer to send them a new "edition" or do I simply offer the new edition to new purchasers and send the new edition to those that ask? ...
Excellent question as this continues to happen to me (I can never leave anything alone... always tweaking and trying to improve). Each time I update a tutorial, I've sent the upgrade to the previous customer.

My worry, though, is if I want to change the price (charge less). I can't. What does that say to those who've already purchased my tut at the higher price?

I'm about to publish an ebook (hopefully out before the end of 2010) and I'm seriously nervous about setting a price. I don't want to consider it too high OR too low after the book is put out there.
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  #87  
Old 2010-09-21, 8:46am
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I have been reading all this, and I have to say, I couldnt agree more. Short, sweet and to the point is the best apporch to any tut. Free is even better.
Although I'm a minimalist at heart, I don't have ANY problem with verbose tutorials. I'd rather read everything the author has to say on the subject than run the risk of them being so pithy I miss something or don't grasp a concept.

But I can see that for those who take the tutorial to the bench with them, a "review" or hand hints cards, etc would be ideal.

Please tutorial writers... don't start chopping up your instructions unless you really feel it improves the tutorial. I can't be alone in wanting you to err on the side of more words rather than less, can I?
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  #88  
Old 2010-09-21, 8:49am
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Originally Posted by kimberly View Post
...I am done now with this thread - it makes me feel like the efforts of tutorial authors are neither appreciated nor wanted. I hate feeling that I have to defend myself as a writer, lampworker and teacher. I have a tutorial almost ready but I am not sure now if I will go ahead with it. It is just way to difficult to try to please everyone.. Life is too short for that.
I think (maybe) you're seeing it the way most of us see things... skewed.

There are so many people who love and appreciate your tutorials, Kimberly, that it makes no sense to focus on a few statements by a few people that may be disparaging toward your tutorial techniques.

Please focus instead on the people who appreciate (and have no problem paying for) a well written, non-minimalist tutorial.

My guess is you have a ton of repeat customers. What does this say? I'd be more worried about the person who doesn't have a returning customer base.

You are obviously doing a lot right.
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  #89  
Old 2010-09-21, 9:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly'sFolly View Post
Well, Squid, maybe you needed to be there. I have spent hundreds of dollars in support of this artist for things she makes (no specifics). She had demoed this very tutorial item FOR OUR GROUP before. I was trying to inquire about a very expensive tool and she INTERRUPTED me TWICE to say, "buy the tutorial." I have shared my own techniques with her on numerous occasions. I have talked up her products in my classes to my students for not even a "thank you". For her to not even hear my full question before interrupting me TWICE (and other people were in earshot - there was eyerolling!), that's rude. And I can happily spend my money elsewhere.
I think it's great that you want to help people become better tutorial writers and I think this thread has already helped many.

However, IMO, you seem to be taking all your interactions with ONE person and using that to make commentary on the entire tutorial-writing community.

Also, you mention quite often how much you give to the community... and then you seem to have expectations of reciprocity based on that. I find it works much better if you give because you want to give, don't mention it to anyone, and don't have expectations from others. Do what you want because you want to... not because you think you'll get something in return.

JMO
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  #90  
Old 2010-09-21, 9:16am
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Great point Laura. Or at the very least, maybe a ball park figure on the cost of the glass &/or tools especially in the case where silver glass or tools beyond the basic that is required to make simple beads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura B View Post
A comprehensive list of tools needed to complete the tutorial
A list of needed materials (wriggle room here, but at least try)
I tend to agree with this too. I personally feel more is more. I can always edit out what I may not need & then print it, though why I never took the time to do this before I really don't know. I LOVE the idea of the handy hints cards! Great suggestion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura B View Post
Although I'm a minimalist at heart, I don't have ANY problem with verbose tutorials. I'd rather read everything the author has to say on the subject than run the risk of them being so pithy I miss something or don't grasp a concept.

But I can see that for those who take the tutorial to the bench with them, a "review" or hand hints cards, etc would be ideal.

Please tutorial writers... don't start chopping up your instructions unless you really feel it improves the tutorial. I can't be alone in wanting you to err on the side of more words rather than less, can I?
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