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  #31  
Old 2010-10-12, 7:09pm
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I sell my tuts for $18. They aren't beads and I don't sell the same bead to 300 people.

Yeah, saying you can't tell anyone what's in a tut is pretty silly. Novels are copyrighted, but there is no law against telling someone what the plot is.
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  #32  
Old 2010-10-12, 8:07pm
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How can it be wrong for me to print out the tutorial I bought and show it to my sister or a friend? Really?
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  #33  
Old 2010-10-12, 8:10pm
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personally I haven't purchased one Tut. with the volumes of information that each forum has, I see no need to purchase something that is out there for free. I have purchased one used CD made by a forum member, payed half the original price and wish i had passed on it completely. flat out not worth anything. And I purchased a book , not a great bond book, and I knew how to do everything that was covered, but I figured why not have it for the library in case some one here wants some reading.

if I cant figure out how to do something, well I would ask and so far each question I have posed has had feed back.

again personally, if the average cost is around $20 for a Tut, then it better be pretty off the wall stuff and packed with good information. if not, youtube and the web has what I need for free.

first sale. personally if one pays for a Tut, then he or she should be able to pass it on, sell or what ever. no! one can not reproduce it, but if some one on here is getting their feathers ruffled on the subject, then it be someone I'd pass on. if they been paid, once its mine in purchasing, then they havent much to say on the subject. As far as not being able to teach or pass on this knowledge is total BS in my opinion.
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  #34  
Old 2010-10-12, 8:16pm
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Don't scream at me & get mad, but I don't see the point of this thread. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy these tutorials. If you don't want to buy them DON'T.
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  #35  
Old 2010-10-12, 8:44pm
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Originally Posted by VivianLampwork View Post
Don't scream at me & get mad, but I don't see the point of this thread. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy these tutorials. If you don't want to buy them DON'T.
This is so true. The information is worth what people are willing to pay for it, and really, at the end of the day, that's why they are priced as they are. If the market couldn't bear it, I feel sure that they'd be less spendy.

That said, I am happy to have bought the tutorials I've accumulated at the price I paid for them, and I'd buy pretty much all of them again.

I don't understand what this thread is meant to accomplish other than to cause upset. The idea that people should discount their product to offset our printing costs is sort of ludicrous.
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  #36  
Old 2010-10-12, 9:18pm
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I tend to think that if you put 2 hours into a bead, it should fetch a healthy reward. Usually they are a one of a kind bead. I wouldn't like to spend the amount of time it takes to create a masterpiece, and then get $5-$10 for it.

I made a free tutorial that took maybe 6 hours to put together. It was viewed by 2,043 lampworkers. For sheetz and geeglez, let's just say I charge $15.00 for the tutorial. Multiply $15.00 times the amount of viewers, and my tutorial could bring in $30,645.00. Amber posted a free tutorial on her Fire Opals. It was worth every bit of $15 had she charged for it, and was viewed 9,961 times here on LE. Multiply $15.00 times the amount of views, and Amber could have made $49,805.00.

The tutorial authors probably don't get anywhere near the amount of sales as the views of the free tuts recorded here on LE, but I would venture to say that they make a nice chunk of change that definitely pays a few bills. I still believe that some of the tutorial authors who are asking $15.00 and up, could sell more tutorials if they weren't asking such a high price for them. Just MHO.
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  #37  
Old 2010-10-12, 9:22pm
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I don't understand why people print out every tutorial, either.
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  #38  
Old 2010-10-12, 10:07pm
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I usually don't print out my tuts because I don't really want to make an exact copy of the bead. I do like someones suggestion of getting an iPad or simmilar to view tuts in your studio. I do see both sides of this debate. On the one hand most books I have looked at show many different techniques, while tuts usually only show one (many show more that one) And you can do whatever you want with the book. However the techniques I have learned from books seem to be things I could have learned for free elsewhere.
I love the tuts I have bought. When I started I bought the tuts that seemed the most popular now I am more selective. I feel that the info in the tuts is stuff that may never make it into a book not because its not worthy of being published but because it's a huge undertaking and getting something published is not easy. I do think that the authors should be compensated for their time and expertise, you are buying a trade secret. I feel I can look at the beads that a tut will teach you how to make and decide if I could figure that out on my own before I buy it. Also I evaluate how likely I am to use a certain technique. Yes some are very expensive but again you don't have to buy it.
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  #39  
Old 2010-10-12, 11:31pm
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Originally Posted by Rudy View Post
YOU ARE VERY BRAVE.......I was involved in one of those hot debates a while back...I still have nightmares! Bwahahahahahahaaha
Rudy, I AM a girl who likes to play with fire!!!
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  #40  
Old 2010-10-12, 11:40pm
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I think people should charge whatever they want to, it's no skin off my nose. If I want to pay for it I will, if not....

The thing I don't understand is why people who make a living putting their knowledge out there, teaching classes all over the country and even the world, writing articles in magazines, writing tutorials, the whole enchilada - still try to hold onto that as tight as they can. It's not going to work. It's just not possible to do it. You can't possibly teach people and sell ebooks on your technique and expect that people are going to not pass along what they have learned. It's really nuts to even try.
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  #41  
Old 2010-10-12, 11:46pm
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This is so true. The information is worth what people are willing to pay for it, and really, at the end of the day, that's why they are priced as they are. If the market couldn't bear it, I feel sure that they'd be less spendy.

That said, I am happy to have bought the tutorials I've accumulated at the price I paid for them, and I'd buy pretty much all of them again.

I don't understand what this thread is meant to accomplish other than to cause upset. The idea that people should discount their product to offset our printing costs is sort of ludicrous.
I would hate to think that honest discussion on a subject that concerns me is seriously upsetting to anyone. If it upsets one, well, there are other threads that are strictly feel good threads. No one has to participate in this discussion, but as always, I value the opinions of my fellow lampworkers. It is a resource I have counted on for years. I don't imagine I will be muzzled in the near future. If I want to understand something, anything, I ask.

I struggle with this issue and many of you know that I have spoken out about this before. I think tutes are great. If I can get the info for free, I search that out first. I try to figure things out on my own alot. But when all else fails, or when I just don't feel like trying to reinvent the wheel, I buy help. I don't mean to be argumentative. but I do feel I have the right to ask what other people feel.

I have truly appreciated reading what my contemporaries feel about this, and expecially hearing from those of you who are involved in the selling of tutorials.
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  #42  
Old 2010-10-12, 11:56pm
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"I do like someones suggestion of getting an iPad or simmilar to view tuts in your studio."

Hah! Wouldn't that be great?? But...if I'm complaining about the cost of ink, paper, page protectors and binders, clearly the cost of an ipad isn't in my near future...dammit.

I don't think it is ludicrous to suggest that Cindy Jenkin's book, at $29.95 was perhaps, in the long run, a better value than a 20 page tutorial that I have to print, bind etc. And yes, I do need to print them, so I can refer to sections while I experiment. Just the way I roll.

Now no one will probably ever sell me another tutorial. Them's the breaks for sounding off. I can live with it.

Thanks everyone, as always, for generously sharing your thoughts, advice and wisdom. It may annoy some, but I appreciate your input!!
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  #43  
Old 2010-10-13, 6:10am
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I wrote 1 tutorial. Just 1. So my hat's off to anyone who has written more than 1. Until you have actually written a tutorial, you have no idea the drain on the brain it takes. Will I do another one? Maybe. But not any time soon.

I've recently purchased a few tutorials. Some for $30.00, some for $25.00. I'm not sorry one iota about paying that price. The information is particularly useful for what I do. In my humble opinion they are tools, not just tuts. I've paid lots of money for some of my tools that can be used over, and over, and over again. Viewing the tutorials as "tools" has put things in perspective for me. Everyone of these tools is worth their weight in gold to me. And, I cherish every tutorial I've purchased. Not only because of the valuable information I've received, but also, being a 1 time tutorial writer, I can really appreciate the hard work that goes into each one. If the tutorial interests me, and I can afford it at the time, I'll buy it. If I can't afford it, I'll "save up" for if if I want it bad enough. I know, I can't have everything.

I think maybe some people miss a point here. If you can turn around and make money from the knowlege, or tool that you have purchased, then that's a good thing. If it's just for your own personal enrichment, that's a good thing too.

J.
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  #44  
Old 2010-10-13, 8:54am
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Originally Posted by *Naos* View Post
If you spent two or more hours creating a focal bead and it was gorgeous, would you sell it for $5, $10?
You and I wouldn't but there are plenty of people who do everyday. Just look at Ebay...

Sara
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  #45  
Old 2010-10-13, 8:58am
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[QUOTE=emoon;3241639]"I do like someones suggestion of getting an iPad or simmilar to view tuts in your studio."

"...But...if I'm complaining about the cost of ink, paper, page protectors and binders, clearly the cost of an ipad isn't in my near future...dammit...."


Gosh, emoon, reading the above quotation, you're complaining (your words) about costs you are inflicting upon yourself. Just because YOU LIKE to collect them that way, doesn't mean the tutorial author should take that into consideration. And, I agree with the others that writing the tutorial, photographing the step-by-steps, etc. and etc., preparing the tutorial is harder and more time-consuming that one might assume.

I've purchased several tutorials, some I purchased just in order to support the author who needed the money. Others I printed out just to learn a new technique, and then I rationalize by knowing that you only have to sell ONE BEAD at $25 to recoup the cost and the knowledge you'll have forever!!!!

Just say'n...
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  #46  
Old 2010-10-13, 9:34am
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Look, I am not complaining about collecting the tutorials that I think might help me further my efforts at becoming an outstanding glass beadmaker. I'm just pointing out that without the costs involved in actual bookmaking, it seems that a tutorial should be less expensive than an actual book. No one forces me to purchase tutorials and I never suggested that. I need and want to grow in my skill set, and with my budget, it, (tutorials), seemed the best way to go. I was just a bit appalled that the cost of a tutorial seems to have sky-rocketed this past year. I don't expect the author to discount their tute, only to be realistic about what their overhead really is. I keep hearing that it took a month, 2 months, more...really? 8 hour days for 2 months? I wrote an entire training manual for the State of Michigan, in two languages, with step-by-step pictures for those who couldn't read, and did it in less time, but whatever. Each of you that are writing the tutorials know what your time in is, and what your overhead is.

I don't try to sell the bead I learned from the tutorial, that isn't my goal at all. Just to add to my skills. I am a bit smirkish when I see a bead for sale that looks just like someone elses, in fact. Just trying to figure a way to get the best bang for my buck, like everyone else these days.
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  #47  
Old 2010-10-13, 9:57am
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Oh gosh, nevernevernever suggested that you make "the same bead" -- I'm talking about taking your new skill set, applying it to your work, and you sell one bead and recoup your costs...and the knowledge is yours forever. Never did I say to make the same bead.

But really, your desire to print them out, and jacket them, and buy binders adds to your cost voluntarily because you like it that way. The tutorial author should not be required to take that into consideration.

Again, just say'n...
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  #48  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:07am
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I think I am confused on something. Is it wrong to make a bead according to a tutorial? I thought that if someone says "Do this then that" there would be no problem is doing that way and even selling it. Obviously it is not 'art' in the case of a unique creation from your own mind. More like a generic version. I have never sold a bead but I think I am now confused on the purpose of a tutorial
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  #49  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:19am
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My opinion is that most tutorials are priced far higher than they need to be to compensate the author for their time, assuming they sell at least 100 copies. Which is by no means a given.

Personally, I would like to see a few tut authors get together and offer their tuts bound in hardcopy, either through a traditional publisher or via Lulu or similar outlet, because while I won't pay $25 for an efile, I would gladly pay more for a hardcopy volume for my library.

The one issue I do have with tutorials is the idea some people seem to have that it is forbidden to discuss methods that someone has written or is writing a tut about. A newbie asks a question, and someone replies "Isn't so-and-so writing a tut on that?" and the implication is that we daren't share our methods because it might be revealing that tut author's secrets... except it isn't, if someone else has the knowledge and the willingness to share it. I'm not talking about trade secrets or signature techniques, I'm just talking about general methods. At least one tut author has tried to dispel any such notions by pointing out that her tut is meant to be an instructional guide and is not proprietary knowledge, but it still persists.

I am all for tuts; consider how expensive classes can be, especially if you travel to them. A tutorial is not a replacement for a class, but it is an inexpensive way to expand your repertoire. They are a way for the experienced bead artist to share methods they spent years developing, with an audience far larger than those who would be able to take a class.

There are also tutorials that cover information already offered in comparatively inexpensive books which also have many other techniques. Sometimes the value is in the comprehensive presentation and explanation.

Sometimes, it is possible that there really is no added value, and in that case, I think the market will probably come to that conclusion on its own.

Either way, I think it is unfair to the community to expect people to refrain from discussing methods that many people developed independently, just because someone is selling a tut that includes them. I am not saying that everyone expects that, just that it is a dynamic I have noticed from time to time.
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  #50  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:19am
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Pol, You can do it whatever way you want to. There is no hard and fast etiquette on this issue. I don't, because my ego demands that I try to be unique. that's just me, chica! But you can coppy, duplicate, clone and then sell. 'Sall good!

Lea, Sorry, I was up til 4 am in the studio, and then got up at 6. Just feelin' a bit snarky. You are right, binding, printing, etc. is completely my choice. I guess I thought that it made using them easier, but again, my choice. So perhaps I should stop bitchin' and start melting stuff!!
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  #51  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:23am
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Thank you, Kalera!- Well-said! and just what IS a fart-accordian? Does it come with a tutorial? [smart-ass smirk]
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  #52  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:29am
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Thank you, Kalera!- Well-said! and just what IS a fart-accordian? Does it come with a tutorial? [smart-ass smirk]
LOL! Someone here was talking about her gassy baby, and getting him to de-gas by working his little legs like a fart-accordion... it made me laugh so hard I had to put it in my profile!
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  #53  
Old 2010-10-13, 10:53am
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I wrote my two tutorials that are boro bead recipe books. The first one is $25 and has 47 recipes. The second is $19 and has 27 recipes.

I created mine because I stopped beadmaking, yet had many, many customers that still wanted my beads. I have some customers that have used my beads in designs that have been published/used in advertising in some major magazines. I have several customers that design jewelry as a fulltime job and make a living off of their jewelry sales that used my beads in their designs.

When I quit making beads, I was bombarded with customers asking if I would still make them or if I could refer them to anyone that made beads using the same recipes as I did.

I felt that not only was I selling my tutorials for all of the recipes, but also at the same time passing along my business and customer base.

I am still to this day - as recently as last week - asked if I would create a custom order making up some of my beads for a customer. I don't have my equipment or interest in making beads anymore, but my customers are still looking for the beads I made - and the exact color/recipes that I used to use.
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  #54  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:11am
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Since, for me, tutorials are the only way I can learn a lot of techniques... (yes, I've bought a lot of books and a few videos but still have never actually seen another person torch. (I have only seen 2 people torch - I would love to take a class...maybe someday)
You see, there is NO way I can afford a class with any one of these people and.. each one that I can think of, if I had the money.. I would cheerfully pay hundreds of dollars for a weekends worth of classes.
I think it is incredibly generous of them to offer their skills in this (the eTutorial) form for them of us what cannot afford to take a *real* class from them.
......
I agree with this ^^

I own most of the tutorials out there and the others that I don't....I WANT. Yep, I am also one of those people who prints out each one and puts them in binders (I have LOTS of binders full of lampwork info)

All I have to say .... PLEASE KEEP WRITING THE TUTORIALS. I WANT THEM! I WILL BUY THEM. Right now, money is too tight for me to buy anything but I have a list...and when I can, I will be buying them...printing them out...and filling up yet another binder.

Thanks to all of you whose tutorials I enjoy...and I can't wait to get the ones I don't have.
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  #55  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:12am
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Cat, you should link to your tuts in your sig... for those of us who might want to buy those recipes. Just sayin'...
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  #56  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:21am
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I wrote a tutorial that had 9 separate items you could make from it. It was teaching a progressive skill set that will take someone years to master all of the tutorial. If I remember right it was 78 pages long and took me MONTHS to produce and years and years to learn the techniques myself. I normally teach that class as a 5 day class. I also offer to coach anyone by email, and possibly even by phone( if you ask me). That tutorial bails a lot of dogs off of death row, and pays my expenses to do disaster work with animals when needed. I make absolutely NO apologies for asking for 25 dollars for that tutorial. If you do not see the value of it.. dont buy it. But dont bash me for it either. I am sorry you cant afford to spend a couple hundred bucks a day to learn it in person in a class, or pay the hotel bills and travel.... not my problem....I cant have everything I want either. But I also dont get pissy and resent Best Buy because they have goodies I want and I cant afford them.
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NEW FLAMINGO BEACH BEAD TUTORIAL AVAILABLE NOW.CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT AND ICICLE TUTORIAL, VISIT MY ETSY SHOP AT
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  #57  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:24am
Cat Cat is offline
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2005
Location: sunny az...
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Hi Kalera - Thanks for the suggestions. Good idea. My old domain name was taken, so I chose an easy to remember new one.

I decided to put my tutorials up on a website because I've been asked so many times recently about both the beads and where to get my tutorials. I'm not trying to make a sales pitch, because that's cheesy (lol), but I do know that I'm still asked all the time by my customers if they know anyone that is making these same beads. So the $25 tutorial cost is probably a drop in the bucket knowing there are customers sitting out there wanting these beads right now.

I figure with these recipes that I basically am offering my business for $25 to anyone that wants it. And I know that some of them made production/order items, so wanted the same beads over and over.

I love tutorials and really think that with the new information learned from the tutorials, whether it be recipes or techniques can really be a business investment.
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Last edited by Cat; 2010-10-13 at 11:27am.
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  #58  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:28am
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gemsinbloom gemsinbloom is offline
Jacqueline Parkes
 
Join Date: Nov 04, 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Just a headsup. Your link goes to your Etsy store, not your www site.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat View Post
Hi Kalera - Thanks for the suggestions. Good idea. My old domain name was taken, so I chose an easy to remember new one.

I decided to put my tutorials up on a website because I've been asked so many times recently about both the beads and where to get my tutorials. I'm not trying to make a sales pitch, because that's cheesy (lol), but I do know that I'm still asked all the time by my customers if they know anyone that is making these same beads. So the $25 tutorial cost is probably a drop in the bucket knowing there are customers sitting out there wanting these beads right now.

I figure with these recipes that I basically am offering my business for $25 to anyone that wants it. And I know that some of them made production/order items, so wanted the same beads over and over.

I love tutorials and really think that with the new information learned from the tutorials, whether it be recipes or techniques can really be a business investment.
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  #59  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:33am
Cat Cat is offline
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Thanks for letting me know that.
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  #60  
Old 2010-10-13, 11:57am
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emoon emoon is offline
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Join Date: Dec 02, 2005
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ummm...I am NEVER pissy. I don't resent anyone. I am entitled to an opinion and I have the right to voice it. In my first post, I asked people to be respectful. Let me say that again. You don't have to agree with me, just don't be nasty.

btw, we rescue dogs too, and I am glad you put in the effort. It is a worthy cause.
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leebeads.etsy.com, leebeads.artfire.com
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