Rubino Oro...light?

[echeveria]

Yes Daniel, most beads take very little glass so even crazy expensive stuff goes a long way. On the other hand, I used to use up a rod or so and think I needed to order another lb. It's a sickness!! And why I am now destashing glass like crazy.

I do love 96. Unfortunately, early on I ordered some lampwork cane that is just too dark to be practical. Lagoon, Dark Lagoon, etc. Mostly Reichenbach transparents. Even layered it just looks kinda black. Maybe I will blow some hollows with it. That's the only bead use I can think of. I love the opaques. The only thing missing is Dark Ivory and Copper Green with the same reactivity of 104. Effetre Dark Ivory is magical.

[KJohn]

Oh my gosh yes, I panic when I go through 2 rods and get more! hahahahaha

I really like 96 too, but I feel the palette is too limited to use it all the time. I like their transparents a lot more than their opaques. Their color saturation is so effective for frit or striped cane. Gorgeous. I need my ivories and turquoise and 242 other colors that the 96 glass doesn't have. Although Bullseye pinks are legendary. Too bad so many are out of production. They really held their color well for hollows which showed off their awesome pinkiness. Jeri Sheese (RIP) did WONDERFUL STUNNING work with that. But most 96 beads I can take or leave. Lucky me, I don't think I can handle a third COE around here. I already have a small box of boro that I mean to get around too.....I hear the dark side has cookies.

Hey Daniel, if you want to see expensive color check out the 33. UGH!!!! Fortunately you use even less than you do with the 104. How well you use the boro clear is the thing.


And I used to use a lot more color until a few years ago, when I started doing more encased beads. I can't stop hahaha and nowadays, I HATE using color for a whole bead. I haven't met a short yet that is so small that I haven't stuck it in a little bowl, bag, jar or container somewhere. Very small bits! For focals sometimes, I just do a thin white barrel and then add different glass pieces that shocked off various rods and are lying around on my workbench. They turn out awesome. And practically free! LOL

[KJohn]

and P.S.

Olympic has always sold bundles which are 1/4 kg bundles for all their lampworking cane.....but only if they have it in stock. I *think* Rbach is melting again, I know the others are now. But for a while it was pretty slim pickings. I wish they still sold their 96 plain frits. I have a bunch of frit recipes and i want to try to replicate them, but so much of the glass is long gone by now.

[danieljanse]

Ok...a little more. LOL

I just bought this crazy ore prospecting machine off eBay for grinding up rock. It's called a Mighty Mill. The box actually fit in my (oversized) mailbox. A video showed how well it "powder-ized" rock so I figured glass would work too. I've never been a fan of the blunt-force hammer frit solution or modified veggie choppers and I really ONLY want powder.

Powder is NOT the stuff sold by Frantz which is more like Frit size 0 or 00. He said it was a one time purchase that he regrets because he can't get rid of it. People don't like that powder gets airborne and, if that is the case for you, read no further. Real powder is like Thompson enamel and covers differently than any frit.

The Mighty Mill turned all my Rubino Oro into powder in no time. I couldn't believe it...no frit left over at all. It took longer to clean up the metal filings but some magnets took care of that. After nearly 20 years blowing glass, frit just doesn't do it for me. Powder is a different story. I achieved nice color density on my feeder with it so I feel better. Necessity=Invention

[KJohn]

The mighty mill sounds like a good idea. I have a friend who used to grind glass into frit for assorted vendors, lots of boro and some 104. She used garbarage disposals LOL. No matter what kind she got, they didn't last very long. Eventually, she got tired of buying them and stopped doing that. But sure, powder would be less expensive way to use color as well. Hope your rubino powder makes you happy now.

[echeveria]

I love powder, but no way I would make it! I just use enamels and 96 COE. I made frit once, and removing the metal fragments made me very stabby. And I did not really like sifting it out into the sizes. I am very happy just to buy it.

[Eileen]

Oops, I'm sorry about the cost post. My mistake! I should not be reading and posting when I should be asleep.

I goofed on the reading of your post, thought it said you bought 1/4 pound for almost $75 - but missed the per pound part!

[Eileen]

You have made me curious because I bought rubino and I think 2011 or 2012 but was new and didn't know what to do with it without ruining it. So I set it aside and forgot about it. I just pulled it out and I have four different colors. One is almost clear, one has a hint of peachy pink, too marked old rubino by the previous owner that are a deeper pink and one commercial stringer size marked pink gold dark special. The lighter two colors have no labels. I am getting ready to strike the end of one of each of those two colors just to see what happens and will let you know. All I'm sure of is that they are over 10 years old... **** edited to say I am not positive about the lighter rods, as they have no labels. I don't remember buying them later, but I cannot state positively I did not do so.

[danieljanse]

Originally Posted by echeveria

I love powder, but no way I would make it! I just use enamels and 96 COE. I made frit once, and removing the metal fragments made me very stabby. And I did not really like sifting it out into the sizes. I am very happy just to buy it.

Other than Thomp$on Enamel$ there isn't a source for 104 powders. As I contend the Frantz powder is more like fine frit. I have this little theory that the Italian furnace workers get (most) all the large diameter rod and powder from Effetre. As they should.

Took me years to find the best reds in 96...Christmas Red/Opaque and Cherry Red/Transparent...both R-colors. They resist going brown. Powdered reds I find to be impossible to not brown out.

Anyone have a shortcut for me to a good red? I bought 590076/Rosso in frit for hummingbird feeder flowers and it gets pretty brown. Here I go again...LOL

[Eileen]

I really admire that you can do so much with 104, and wish I had a red for you. I almost always use Effetre light red because it behaves best for me, but I have a Lauscha that I am hopeful about and need to experiment with it.

I edited my post about my Rubino rods to say I cannot be positive about the lighter rods because there are no labels on them and my memory is sometimes fickle about things like glass purchases from years ago. I am sure it was not recent. So the only ones I can say for sure are older than 10 years are the ones with the labels (one rod is lighter than the other, but still a good bit of color), that I am positive I got from a woman in Gainesville in I think maybe 2011, no later than 2012 for sure.

But I did test my very light Rubino rods to see what they would do, so figured I would share the results in case it sheds any light. I guess we just have to wait (in vain?) for the price of gold to go down.

The slices are from one of the rods marked "old" and the two very light batches. I struck each of the light ones, and then when cool cut new slices of those two rods to see the centers, as the slices from them I did first were too pale to really tell anything. It does appear to me that the clear center in the rod marked old is smaller than the rod that was light pink, but if I got a good slice on the other one, the clear is smaller but the color was not normal rubino. Could it be another glass?

[echeveria]

Originally Posted by danieljanse

Other than Thomp$on Enamel$ there isn't a source for 104 powders. As I contend the Frantz powder is more like fine frit. I have this little theory that the Italian furnace workers get (most) all the large diameter rod and powder from Effetre. As they should.

Took me years to find the best reds in 96...Christmas Red/Opaque and Cherry Red/Transparent...both R-colors. They resist going brown. Powdered reds I find to be impossible to not brown out.

Anyone have a shortcut for me to a good red? I bought 590076/Rosso in frit for hummingbird feeder flowers and it gets pretty brown. Here I go again...LOL

I use 96 powders with my 104 and 96 rods

[danieljanse]

Originally Posted by Eileen

I really admire that you can do so much with 104, and wish I had a red for you. I almost always use Effetre light red because it behaves best for me, but I have a Lauscha that I am hopeful about and need to experiment with it.

I edited my post about my Rubino rods to say I cannot be positive about the lighter rods because there are no labels on them and my memory is sometimes fickle about things like glass purchases from years ago. I am sure it was not recent. So the only ones I can say for sure are older than 10 years are the ones with the labels (one rod is lighter than the other, but still a good bit of color), that I am positive I got from a woman in Gainesville in I think maybe 2011, no later than 2012 for sure.

But I did test my very light Rubino rods to see what they would do, so figured I would share the results in case it sheds any light. I guess we just have to wait (in vain?) for the price of gold to go down.

The slices are from one of the rods marked "old" and the two very light batches. I struck each of the light ones, and then when cool cut new slices of those two rods to see the centers, as the slices from them I did first were too pale to really tell anything. It does appear to me that the clear center in the rod marked old is smaller than the rod that was light pink, but if I got a good slice on the other one, the clear is smaller but the color was not normal rubino. Could it be another glass?

Thanks for all that effort Eileen! The almost clear one sure does have a tiny clear dot in the middle after the strike. That looks pretty dense as well. I have not been using Effetre long enough to know if they ever offered other Rubies. Seems like batch variation could account for the differences in the starting tint as suggested by others.

I find it frustrating that they raise prices AND make less intense color. Do one but not BOTH...Sheesh!

[KJohn]

Eileen, they are all striking so they are some variation of Rubino, but perhaps you got some veiled cane? As I recall, (and that can be mistaken as well LOL) for a while that was all that was available. I think to get a real sense of the glass, that you could make a small bead to be sure.
I have almost no rubino and I will not miss it. It has been difficult for me to work, and I hate those black flecks that seem to come without warning. I love the DH pinks & purple. Really made my day when they started making them. Although I'm still not one for a lot of pink beads.

[jesnbec73]

This is Effetre 'Gold Pink Rubino' circa 2006 to 2008, one of them is almost clear, and the other is a little more orange-ish, both strike to a deep pink. When you work it, you can see the metal crashing out on the surface of the glass and you can literally fume with it. At some point in the last fifteen or so years, 'Rubino Oro' started showing up and it is definitely not the same color IMO.
Just my two cents, but you can no longer find the original Gold Pink Rubino, it's all what they are calling Oro now. I only have a small handful of shorts left unfortunately, but it was just awesome glass. Not much point in cutting cross sections of it as it strikes all that pink all the way through the glass.

[danieljanse]

Originally Posted by jesnbec73

This is Effetre 'Gold Pink Rubino' circa 2006 to 2008, one of them is almost clear, and the other is a little more orange-ish, both strike to a deep pink. When you work it, you can see the metal crashing out on the surface of the glass and you can literally fume with it. At some point in the last fifteen or so years, 'Rubino Oro' started showing up and it is definitely not the same color IMO.
Just my two cents, but you can no longer find the original Gold Pink Rubino, it's all what they are calling Oro now. I only have a small handful of shorts left unfortunately, but it was just awesome glass. Not much point in cutting cross sections of it as it strikes all that pink all the way through the glass.

That does look rich. Rubino Oro just translates to Gold Ruby. Again, I just think it's a shame they raise the price and weaken the color. Heck, just offer the full strength stuff for more $. Maybe in their minds the coexistence of the dense product would make the price of the current stuff seem inflated. Imagine that...

[beadmama]

This has been an interesting thread, if Effetre is diluting Rubino but then used the other version the cost would then probably be the same at DH’s pinks.

The first 2 pictures are different variations of DH Rhea. I love Rhea . I think both are Rhea light. No problems with them at all.

I also have several variations of Effetre Rubino. Some are successful but others not.
My last picture is Vetrofond rubino the rods completely clear but a deep raspberry. I do have rocky versions of both Effetre and Vetrofond you can pick them out as you melt the glass… mine were I think 50% off the original price.

[danieljanse]

Originally Posted by beadmama

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This has been an interesting thread, if Effetre is diluting Rubino but then used the other version the cost would then probably be the same at DH’s pinks.

The first 2 pictures are different variations of DH Rhea. I love Rhea . I think both are Rhea light. No problems with them at all.

I also have several variations of Effetre Rubino. Some are successful but others not.
My last picture is Vetrofond rubino the rods completely clear but a deep raspberry. I do have rocky versions of both Effetre and Vetrofond you can pick them out as you melt the glass… mine were I think 50% off the original price.

You may be correct about what the price would be BUT please everyone remember...Reichenbach 96 Gold Ruby is ~$70/kg. Kugler 96 Gold Ruby is $80/kg. So, let's say the Germans avg $75/kg which is $34/pound.

1/4 pound would cost $8.50. DH pinks are ~4x higher...why? No import shipping fees...just the excuse that something with gold should cost a lot. The market (us) bears it and so why should they change. Good for them, I guess.

[jesnbec73]

The wife and I used to buy those little 1 gram gold ingots back in the early to mid-2000's, it was our idea of a nest egg at the time and we were buying them for about thirty bucks a piece. We fell on hard times at one point and had to sell them, but we recently thought about maybe getting back into the habit and to our utter horror, those little 1 Gram ingots are now over 100 bucks. Blew us away, and we wish we had held on to our little stash now. Ugh. But anyways, suffice to say the price of gold is at an all-time high at the moment and I don't think it's going to improve anytime soon either. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the quality went down the tubes as the price increased dramatically, have you bought any small kitchen appliances lately? The entire consumer market is now over-priced rubbish, why would art supplies be any different?

Also, probably unrelated, but interesting nonetheless, I was going to buy some gold sheets from a jeweler supplier, and found out that any wholesale sellers of gold or assumably other precious metals have to keep and furnish information about their buyers to good ole Uncle Sam, apparently under the auspices of the Patriot Act according to Rio Grande anyways. Don't know if that causes any issues in glass manufacture but it was something I had no idea about.

I don't know if it's fair to compare anything to DH prices though, apparently their glass is formulated and batched by divine alchemists and then hand pulled by vestal virgins during lunar eclipses and only then handled by initiated eunuchs while they perform a recitation of the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Holy Rosary wearing blemish free lambskin gloves... or something like that. It's pricey IOW.

[danieljanse]

I don't know if it's fair to compare anything to DH prices though, apparently their glass is formulated and batched by divine alchemists and then hand pulled by vestal virgins during lunar eclipses and only then handled by initiated eunuchs while they perform a recitation of the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Holy Rosary wearing blemish free lambskin gloves... or something like that. It's pricey IOW.

Now I don't think they charge enough. LOL

It's sort of "Boutique" glass color...perhaps they could get picked up by goop.

[KJohn]

Don't forget DH is a small, family owned company. Rbach and,, that other one....do much larger pulls. So economy of scale goes into it too. But IMO Jed at Double Helix is the only one to do it right, a fully compatible with 104 coe, gold ruby and gold pink in several luscious, non shocky, utterly dependable shades. Some of my best selling beads use their pinks and purple, so I see a return immediately on that investment. And I can't afford to piddle with lesser pinks while I've got orders pending. I think their prices overall are pretty good. I've never known a small glassmaker to have cheaper prices than that, let me put it that way.
So you get what you pay for, this time anyway

[jesnbec73]

Originally Posted by KJohn

Don't forget DH is a small, family owned company. Rbach and,, that other one....do much larger pulls. So economy of scale goes into it too. But IMO Jed at Double Helix is the only one to do it right, a fully compatible with 104 coe, gold ruby and gold pink in several luscious, non shocky, utterly dependable shades. Some of my best selling beads use their pinks and purple, so I see a return immediately on that investment. And I can't afford to piddle with lesser pinks while I've got orders pending. I think their prices overall are pretty good. I've never known a small glassmaker to have cheaper prices than that, let me put it that way.
So you get what you pay for, this time anyway

Yeah don't get me wrong, I absolutely love their glass and have a pretty good stash of it.

[danieljanse]

My post so I will summarize:

- Effetre Gold Pink, Rubino Oro, is diluted with a clear core and not labeled as such (veiled version, whatever). This has been in practice for many years (2006?).

- The color is progressively weaker and the cost has increased in a manner not reflective of German glass color makers.

- Inflation sucks, gold prices are nuts and some companies, even in the face of rising production costs, see a profit opportunity.

I'm not sure why DH was brought into this other than they also make gold pink. Everyone likes their glass and pays for it knowing it gives them a consistent product. It's not made to be used in the quantities I would need it to be and I should not begrudge them for needing to make a profit.

Thanks for the excellent discussion as I learned a lot!