What is Devardi glass??? - Page 33

miahawk · #**961** 2009-02-09, 6:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by cinders

But, I do not think that calling someone a shyster is necessary and seems quite juvenile to say the least.

why I used the word shyster is in the context of the reply you quoted and the post I was replying to. I don't think shyster is off the mark, considering the things that Daniel said.

Drafly · #**962** 2009-02-09, 6:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by debkauz

I have to kind of laugh at the 'asshole' statement too. Someone may have said it once on another forum but *someone* sure had to quote it over and over, didn't he? Seems to me Jim said asshole a whole lot more times than anyone else. LOL

I doubt sincerely I would've purchased the glass because of the evasiveness that was showed in the answers on this thread. I can't knowingly support a company that has workers in that situation. I doubt if they make $20-$25 a day. Maybe a year? After some of the rest of what I've seen I can almost guarantee that this glass will never make it into my rack. Thanks but no thanks. Don't put down other glass to try to make your questionable glass look better.

Deb, Please research posts before you say I ever called anyone an "Asshole."
Never happened and never will. I may disagree with many of you on this forum, but I will not call people names. I may disagree with many of you, but I still respect you. I am only posting when I can be helpful to anyone. I will not fan the fires to keep this going. No one is a winner here. Please check your posts, before connecting me to them. You know what a [/quote] is I presume?

Jim

BeadMaven · #**963** 2009-02-09, 6:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wiley

I do believe that they probably did/may still feel bad about this whole situation. Things could have been handled better....on all sides.

We have seen other new vendors come in and handle questions in a polite, open, forthright manner....IMHO that did not happen here. I have had questions about this glass since the very first time I looked at the auction and they were putting down other glasses on the market.... but I was still interested. Over and over again I have said how much I love glass in all forms and brands. Too bad this was handled better.

By all.

I agree Wiley, myself included.

I can say there was far more I could have posted but I didn't.
I am getting better! Yay me.

And Drafly. Great post!!

NMLinda · #**964** 2009-02-09, 7:10pm

If we don't want to engage them directly at the moment, or they won't/can't participate here, why don't we wait and see how they evolve their business?

I miss seeing you folks on the other parts of the forum!

Linda

ruca · #**965** 2009-02-09, 7:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMLinda

If we don't want to engage them directly at the moment, or they won't/can't participate here, why don't we wait and see how they evolve their business?

I miss seeing you folks on the other parts of the forum!

Linda

WORD.

Drafly · #**966** 2009-02-09, 7:12pm

Thank you BeadMaven,
I just wanted to say, I joined TorchBugs tonight. I want to feel "Warm & Fuzzy." I want a forum where everyone thinks alike. SO! Be nice to me or I will leave LE and start posting there! HA

Jim Clark

debkauz · #**967** 2009-02-09, 7:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drafly

Deb, Please research posts before you say I ever called anyone an "Asshole."
Never happened and never will. I may disagree with many of you on this forum, but I will not call people names. I may disagree with many of you, but I still respect you. I am only posting when I can be helpful to anyone. I will not fan the fires to keep this going. No one is a winner here. Please check your posts, before connecting me to them. You know what a

is I presume?

Jim[/quote]

You are absolutely right and I'm sorry. I got you confused with someone else.

And now I'm gone from this nasty mess. It's just another reason that moderating a forum is a necessary thing to do. Just letting things go hurts a lot of people.

Damselfly · #**968** 2009-02-09, 7:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMLinda

If we don't want to engage them directly at the moment, or they won't/can't participate here, why don't we wait and see how they evolve their business?

I miss seeing you folks on the other parts of the forum!

Linda

Another wholehearted agreement.

Drafly · #**969** 2009-02-09, 7:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by debkauz

is I presume?

Jim

If you will reread what I said, I never said you called anyone an asshole. I said you used the word a lot more than anyone else in the thread.

And now I'm gone from this nasty mess. It's just another reason that moderating a forum is a necessary thing to do. Just letting things go hurts a lot of people.[/quote]

Deb, Better check the posts, AGAIN! In not one of my posts is the word "asshole" used! PERIOD! Are you confusing me with my friend JACK?
He loves the word!

Jim
PS: I would like an apology, or a hug!

Hayley · #**970** 2009-02-09, 7:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by debkauz

is I presume?

Jim

If you will reread what I said, I never said you called anyone an asshole. I said you used the word a lot more than anyone else in the thread.

And now I'm gone from this nasty mess. It's just another reason that moderating a forum is a necessary thing to do. Just letting things go hurts a lot of people.

Deb - I think it was Jack, not Jim, who did that.

Carolyn M · #**971** 2009-02-09, 7:32pm

I think Deb might be confusing her Jacks and her Jims.

debkauz · #**972** 2009-02-09, 7:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drafly

If you will reread what I said, I never said you called anyone an asshole. I said you used the word a lot more than anyone else in the thread.

And now I'm gone from this nasty mess. It's just another reason that moderating a forum is a necessary thing to do. Just letting things go hurts a lot of people.

Deb, Better check the posts, AGAIN! In not one of my posts is the word "asshole" used! PERIOD! Are you confusing me with my friend JACK?
He loves the word!

Jim
PS: I would like an apology, or a hug![/quote]

Jim I will gladly give you an apology AND a hug! I am very sorry that I got you confused. I should learn when to keep my mouth shut, shouldn't I? I truly am sorry.

debkauz · #**973** 2009-02-09, 7:47pm

{{{{{{Jim}}}}} I am very, very sorry that I was rude to you. Please accept my apology.

Frogsongstudio · #**974** 2009-02-09, 7:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drafly

I may disagree with many of you on this forum, but I will not call people names. I may disagree with many of you, but I still respect you. I am only posting when I can be helpful to anyone. I will not fan the fires to keep this going. No one is a winner here. Please check your posts, before connecting me to them.

Jim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drafly

Thank you BeadMaven,
I just wanted to say, I joined TorchBugs tonight. I want to feel "Warm & Fuzzy." I want a forum where everyone thinks alike. SO! Be nice to me or I will leave LE and start posting there! HA

Jim Clark

I think the second quote cancels out the first one. Don't you?

Damselfly · #**975** 2009-02-09, 7:52pm

Seriously, are we just parsing words now because we can?

What about the real issues being discussed, the ones started about the glass and the people importing it?

LawsonsForkGlassBeads, you may want to repost that bead in the other thread about the glass also - Devardi Glass Technical Input and Experiences.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=121271

Drafly · #**976** 2009-02-09, 7:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by debkauz

{{{{{{Jim}}}}} I am very, very sorry that I was rude to you. Please accept my apology.

Deb, All is forgiven! And, thanks for the hug! I feel all warm and fuzzy now, so I am gonna stay! Hear that!

JIm

mad hatter · #**977** 2009-02-09, 8:02pm

Hmmmm how did this post deterioate again? As Far as the labor conditions, By buying the glass from thsi company we have the power to insist on upward movement in the conditions of the factory. If they have a conciderable increase in the product sold but understand that in order to keep this they have to increase not only the products quality but also increase the level of acceptable practice in the factory they will. Money pushes improvement not boycotting them. If you boycott they will continue on as they have for many years.

Drafly · #**978** 2009-02-09, 8:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad hatter

Hmmmm how did this post deterioate again? As Far as the labor conditions, By buying the glass from thsi company we have the power to insist on upward movement in the conditions of the factory. If they have a conciderable increase in the product sold but understand that in order to keep this they have to increase not only the products quality but also increase the level of acceptable practice in the factory they will. Money pushes improvement not boycotting them. If you boycott they will continue on as they have for many years.

Correct! This was exactly the case in the ceramic fiber industry in China. Conditions started to improve in the seventies, when US buyers and the mfg. of machinery they wanted to purchase started to occur.

Jim

J&M · #**979** 2009-02-09, 8:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

Deb - I think it was Jack, not Jim, who did that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolyn M

I think Deb might be confusing her Jacks and her Jims.

Yes it was I who was quoting what Squid admitted to calling Daniel that word. (not gonna' say it again)

miahawk · #**980** 2009-02-09, 9:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad hatter

Hmmmm how did this post deterioate again? As Far as the labor conditions, By buying the glass from thsi company we have the power to insist on upward movement in the conditions of the factory. If they have a conciderable increase in the product sold but understand that in order to keep this they have to increase not only the products quality but also increase the level of acceptable practice in the factory they will. Money pushes improvement not boycotting them. If you boycott they will continue on as they have for many years.

conditions will only improve if along with money we put watchdogs in place. money alone will not spearhead change, unless we actively seek out co-ops or companies with ethics to support.

Damselfly · #**981** 2009-02-09, 9:21pm

and boycotting one company won't change anything.

ShellyD · #**982** 2009-02-09, 11:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damselfly

Actually, I've seen a lot of that directed at the owners of the company and anyone who stuck up for them as well.

The rest of this is a general discussion of what happened as I see it:

What's bothered me the most about the trend this thread has taken (as others have taken), is the need to assume the worst about people. And I'm not directing that statement at any one person or at any one side of the argument.

But from my perspective, we had someone ask about a new type of glass. The importers came here to discuss it, and were asked hard questions. When they couldn't answer as completely or as quickly as people wanted, or when they wanted to keep some of their contacts private for the time being, their motives and their ethics were called into question. Assumptions were made, not only about their product, but also their business practices and their character. An elaborate sleuthing of names, bills of lading, factory images was conducted and dissected without any respect towards them, as well as the discussion of child labor/bondage with no proof that was occurring, all tied to the statements saying that without proof, we have to assume that's what's happening.

Let's take Kalera's source at face value, who says they've toured that particular plant and says that no child labor is occurring. Well, there's one belabored assumption that's been discredited, but the damage has already been done and has been repeated ad nausium.

So now if continue that Kalera's source said that factory wasn't up to US standards, we could debate the merits of jobs available to the desperately poor in India, and what jobs people there want/choose to do, and how much they're paid, and what's safer than what other job or lifestyle they'd be resigned to, but that really isn't about this company or even about this product. This batch of glass is not going to change the situation in India whether you buy it or not.

You can choose to buy it, or not buy it, based on your personal preference, or even your personal ethics.

But it wasn't left at that. It was discussed whether it should be allowed in our industry, whether beads made from it would be inferior and shouldn't be labled as "first rate". Which means scrutiny passes from just this couple importing the glass, and has implications for anyone who even purchases it. Now others get to decide what is considered "first rate" beads???

And then there's all the people who want to "educate" the public about the ethics or dangers of this glass or why they'd never make beads with it, all based on pure assumption with very little specific, concrete evidence of this product to back it up.

and when all of that proved to be a little too much for the new couple, who were only trying to start a business, and to my viewpoint, they felt attacked (I wonder why!) - the husband felt like he had to defend his wife and his company, and god forbid, he acted human and posted his side as he saw it. Was he wrong about some of his own assumptions? I'm sure he was, but then again, so were those who cried "child labor".

So yes, he was human and made a mistake and probably posted when he shouldn't have. But I've seen countless rants and ill advised posts by many many many people here, and I, for one, don't judge people on isolated instances. I was hoping I wasn't alone.

But now there's the implication that anyone (and specifically that couple, since it's in this conversation) who is defensive or evasive, is shady or untrustworthy. And dont' tell me that's not a inference to them, because it obviously is.

So now you all get to judge everyone's character based on whether or not they tell you everything you want to know? What about all those threads about how inappropriate it was to ask how someone makes a bead and how they dont' have to answer if they dont' want to, or they don't even have to tell you what colors they used if they dont' want to???? People keep crying "respect!!" but it's applied unevenly and the rules are bent depending on people's whims.

This dissecting of people and their motivations, and the damage that people willingly (and with direct intent) do to reputations, based on pure speculation.... it's really frightening. And what's even more frightening is that those people doing it feel justified and even righteous.

It doesn't take hardly anything these days, to be torn apart.

Fabulous post and very true.

From someone who has recently been ripped a new one!!!

Artistic License · #**983** 2009-02-09, 11:04pm

Ok, this is a little off from this topic and yet related. I need to know if anyone else has had this happen to them. Tonight @ 6:30 PM, we are having dinner, my phone rings, and I make it a habit of not answering phones when it's dinner time. My husband walked to the phone anyway and picked it up on the 5th ring. When he answered nobody was there. I assumed whoever it was hung up figuring after 5 rings nobody was home.

After dinner I checked my caller ID, and the name that appeared was Product Dev!!
I read this thread the last couple of nights and last night I simply looked up their name to see what their beads or glass was. I also checked their E-Bay store out for the heck of it. What is so unnerving is, how or why did they call ME?? How do they know I even looked at their website and how in hell did they get my phone number since it is UNLISTED. Needless to say this is most unsettling. I do not have a listed number and why they even called me does not make sense. I know of no other companies of that name that would call me. I do have the phone number that came from them and it's a 303 area code. Perhaps tomorrow I'm going to have to make a call and find out how the hell they got my unlisted phone number. And I'm major pissed about this. I"m a private person and unsolicited phone calls from suppliers are not appreciated.

Did anyone else experience this?
Red

Schermo · #**984** 2009-02-09, 11:11pm

Red,

303 is an area code in central Colorado. Devardi Glass is in Washington State. On my caller ID, the second word is often shortened to just a few letters. It's quite possible that the call you received was a randomly generated number, (which happens to be your unlisted number) from a company that is called perhaps, Product Dev(elopment) or something similar.

I wouldn't get too worked up about this one.

Schermo

AKDesigns · #**985** 2009-02-09, 11:13pm

Do a reverse look up of the phone number to find out who it belongs to.

Artistic License · #**986** 2009-02-09, 11:22pm

Thanks girls. It's most likely someone trying to sell me something anyway I'm sure *L*.
I appreciate you soothing my paranoia.
Red

Asil4 · #**987** 2009-02-09, 11:50pm

LOL, Red. Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in,.......

DesertDreamer · #**988** 2009-02-10, 6:19am

I get "product dev" calls occasionally...it's some group doing surveys. I bet it's short for product development or something similar. I'm on the do not call list, but surveys are exempt from that.

yellowbird · #**989** 2009-02-10, 6:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schermo

Red,

303 is an area code in central Colorado. Devardi Glass is in Washington State. On my caller ID, the second word is often shortened to just a few letters. It's quite possible that the call you received was a randomly generated number, (which happens to be your unlisted number) from a company that is called perhaps, Product Dev(elopment) or something similar.

I wouldn't get too worked up about this one.

Schermo

That has happened to me and I wondered what it was . Thanks.

When I said it,... walks like a duck.( that post is gone now?) I was referring to all the information in this thread pointed to it being glass rods.. it pretty much had to be .
Nothing more..... so I will try to be more or less vague and hopefully have a better out come because I didn't mean to insult anyone especially Robin.
In case you missed my next post( Robin) which has also gone away.

mad hatter · #**990** 2009-02-10, 9:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by miahawk

conditions will only improve if along with money we put watchdogs in place. money alone will not spearhead change, unless we actively seek out co-ops or companies with ethics to support.

ah yes we as americans are the only ones capable of doing the right thing. This is exactly why other country's dislike us.