Advice on new kiln purchase

Lrjcarr · #1 2020-05-19, 8:10pm

Hi all, Long time reader, first-time poster looking for advice on the best bang for the buck kiln for annealing glass beads and small lampwork pieces. I'm based in Australia so please only recommend brands available to me.

Also... once I buy the kiln is this a stand-alone "plug n play" item or do I need other gadgets and or accessories to run it. I have a budget of roughly $800 - $1000 Australian dollars.

All recommendations and advice welcome. Thank you for taking the time to read and/or reply

echeveria · #2 2020-05-20, 6:59am

Not being familiar with what is available in Australia, no advice other than a digital controller will make your life much easier. You should not need peripherals to use it for lampwork. Plug, program and go.

Mesnik · #3 2020-05-20, 7:25am

I have to think that Glass Hive ships everywhere. Contact them. If they do, that is a super great kiln, robust and functional. Well built.

https://www.theglasshive.com/

Three Muses Glass · #4 2020-05-21, 5:21pm

Essiemessy is in Australia, you might try to message her. She doesn't come here much anymore though. http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/member.php?u=16240

She had a bad experience with one manufacturer, if you do the advanced search and put in her user name it was a thread about Paragon Caldera. I can't remember what she finally got.

Lrjcarr · #5 2020-05-21, 6:22pm

That was really helpful, thank you. I wasn't a fan of the annealing collars to begin with but reading that kinda sealed the deal. I've narrowed my search down to a couple of kilns, just doing a bit of product review research before committing to a choice!

joey · #6 2020-05-22, 1:22pm

Chockadoo in Australia sell glass hive kilns. Great service, great kilns.

Croft Eeusk · #7 2020-05-23, 3:17pm

Definitely recommend Glass Hive! And second the digital controller as well.

dj

Lrjcarr · #8 2020-05-23, 9:02pm

sweet, i'll look into them also. thanks.

Gila · #9 2020-05-25, 1:26pm

Here's another Glass Hive recommendation.

Lrjcarr · #10 2020-05-28, 6:11pm

So one last question before I choose my kiln and commit to a purchase... I've narrowed it down to either the Paragon SC2 at $1700AUD or Bee Hive Small Beadmaking Kiln at $1500 AUD. Do I need kiln controllers to run these or can I use either of these kilns as is to anneal etc without the need for a kiln controller and other equipment? Once again thank you all for the feedback/tips/advice!

Eileen · #11 2020-05-28, 6:56pm

They do not have a digital controller included?

Croft Eeusk · #12 2020-05-28, 11:09pm

It's so much easier to control bead annealing w/a digital controller.

I started out w/a kiln w/an analog controller for lampworking because it was cheaper. It was so much harder to get correct annealing temps w/o a whole bunch of experimentation and it had to be watched constantly just to be sure of retaining correct temp.

W/o any controller at all it would be a difficult thing to reach/keep correct temps for annealing.

If it's fusing, metal clay or something other than lampwork annealing I haven't the experience to comment on difference in type of controller usage.

Here's an article that might answer some questions on controllers

https://www.soulceramics.com/pages/g...ln-controllers

dj

Lrjcarr · #13 2020-05-30, 9:36am

So my purchase of a new kiln is on hold for now, my father n' law has tracked down a guy with 4 old kilns and he knows at least one was used for glass so I'm off to check them out on Tuesday. Would be stoked if I could pick up one to do the job for a few hundred dollars, would allow me to sink some cash into a oxycon! Anyway, I really appreciate all of the help and advice, thank you everyone =)

Three Muses Glass · #14 2020-05-30, 6:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lrjcarr

So my purchase of a new kiln is on hold for now, my father n' law has tracked down a guy with 4 old kilns and he knows at least one was used for glass so I'm off to check them out on Tuesday. Would be stoked if I could pick up one to do the job for a few hundred dollars, would allow me to sink some cash into a oxycon! Anyway, I really appreciate all of the help and advice, thank you everyone =)

Good luck! Fingers crossed for you!

Alan · #15 2020-05-31, 4:58pm

There are a few places to buy Kilns in Australia, I am in country Vic and have dealt with Jan at Beadglass she is in NSW just out of Sydney she might have some. of there is Silver Exchange in Warragul Vic she does Paragon Kilns or Game Co in Sydney they also do Paragon kilns.
Paragon Kilns are the easiest to work with a digital controller.
Hope this helps

Lrjcarr · #16 2020-06-09, 4:24am

So I got my new kiln today. Based on cost and what I need I purchased the Paragon SC2 kiln and am stoked with it. Perfect for what I wanted and easy to use! slowly getting my workshop together have a killer work bench, my ventilation has been sorted and am awaiting on my torch and hoses to be shipped. Glass arrived today also and now I'm just waiting on my oxy and propane tanks to be delivered. Only thing I need now is a steel plate to go on my bench and I will be good to go. I started putting this together about 5 weeks ago and have been like a little kid counting down the days to Christmas. As long as there are no issues connecting the torch and tanks I should be playing with glass in a week or so. Once again thanks for all of the recommendations and help.

echeveria · #17 2020-06-09, 9:58am

Awesome! SC2 is also a great kiln for metal clay if you ever do that.

Croft Eeusk · #18 2020-06-09, 12:38pm

Congrats! Getting closer.

dj

Speedslug · #19 2020-06-09, 1:33pm

I picked up a couple of 10 foot by 3 foot sheets of galvanized metal used in duct work from a local heating and a/c company.

It wasn't that expensive and you can ask them to cut it to size or even put bends in it for you.

they are also a great source for old house hold ventilation fans from the furnaces they remove when installing a new furnace.
Junking it cost them money so they are likely to give to to you be nothing.

When I had a furnace replaced the guy even pulled the fan out and left me the wiring diagram as well.
I used it in my vent system over my torch bench and it moves a ton of air and didn't cost me a penny.

Sofin · #20 2021-09-22, 4:06am

I hope I am posting in the right place. I also am embarking on my first kiln purchase and was wondering if anyone has any in-site on the Jen Jen cube kiln. Thanks

LarryC · #21 2021-09-23, 9:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofin

I hope I am posting in the right place. I also am embarking on my first kiln purchase and was wondering if anyone has any in-site on the Jen Jen cube kiln. Thanks

I would highly reccomend their AF3P octagonal kiln. I used one for many years before I bought my current Skutt mini.

jenseev · #22 2024-08-09, 11:14pm

Hi

I hope this is in the right place, I’m wondering if a slumping / fusing kiln can also be used for lampworked ornaments & beads (soft and boro glass) ? Eg the skutt hot start pro which ive seen for sale in used condition...
I am also just looking around to see what’s possible on a start out budget so was wondering if it has to be a “bead annealing” kiln to anneal lampwork? I’m new to getting my own setup beyond a hothead and working outside on the patio (weather pending

) and want to work larger, so am inching up to boro, a dual gas torch setup & I think I’ll also need the kiln to put work straight into, to avoid cracking - I can’t just wait (in vermiculite) to batch anneal at a local studio, right? Am in Australia fwiw…

KJohn · #23 2024-08-10, 12:10am

If you want to garage your beads while you are making them, and then anneal, then in general what you are looking for is a kiln that you can fit your mandrels into and that you can open and shut repeatedly with minimal heat loss. That usually means a bead door. A kiln that opens from the top or front completely like a little safe or something will not work well.

Your other option is to batch anneal. Have fiber blanket sandwich wrapped in foil (usually the best way) and cool the beads slowly in there. Then anneal the cold beads in batches. Top loaders (like the skutt hot start pro) will work fine for that, but not for the first option.

Depends on the work you are doing. For small beads, without a lot of sticky out parts, batch annealing is ok. For larger, more complex work, it's better to garage and anneal while hot.

I worked on an outside patio with a hothead and ceramic blankets with batch annealing for several years. It was fine for me as I just did beads. When I upgraded, I got an alpha, an oxycon and a glass hive kiln. You don't need anything exactly like that glass hive kiln but similar is what you are looking for, with the punty doors. Otherwise you can still batch anneal until you find one, but you can still get a better torch.

Good luck & stop by the show & tell thread and say hi

danieljanse · #24 2024-08-10, 9:38am

I really hesitate responding here but my curiosity is getting the better of me. Here goes:
Has anyone tried the Devardi Mini Bead Annealer? At $90 it's either a great way to see if you like making beads or a nightmare waste of money.

https://www.devardiglass.com/MiniBeadAnnealer.htm

The cheapest Glass Hive annealer is still not "cheap". I love the company...a few of my furnace glass pieces are from them and have served me well for over 10 years.

KJohn · #25 2024-08-10, 1:32pm

You can get those on Amazon for $30. They are ceramic hair curling iron warmers, or something like that LOL They get REALLY hot so you would want to have a good space where you don't reach over it and there is nothing placed near it. I mean REALLY REALLY hot. I wanted to use one for prewarming rods but it was just too hot to go anywhere safe on my workbench and I felt it was quite dangerous.

As for annealing beads, I know some folks do, that maybe do a small amount of beads a day. I would say that you would need some way to reliably measure the heat inside with a pyrometer and also a way to close off the end/s so stuffing perhaps with ceramic fiber blanket? I feel it's a lot more work than it's worth aand it's so dangerous. But if you want, you can get it much cheaper on Amazon.

You don't need to anneal your beads unless you are selling them, so it doesn't really matter for that. There is really no way around getting a kiln, but batch annealing can use a large variety of kilns. So used ceramic kilns would be fine and a lot cheaper. Then if you get into selling that work, you can save up for one you use while working.

ESC · #26 2024-08-10, 1:44pm

I used a used ceramic kiln with an external digital controller for years. The limitations as Kristin mentioned are size, no larger than about 1/2" and no 'sticky outy' bits. I plunged my beads into vermiculite as that was all that was available back in the mid 90s.

jenseev · #27 2024-08-11, 1:28am

Thank you so much everyone! [mention]Kjohn [/mention] , with your fire blanket setup, did you also use a hot plate or slow cooker or similar to slow the cool down even further ? Or for rod warming?
I know people use hot plates with fire blanket or slow cooker with vermiculite, and maybe that helps with pre warming , but I can’t see it really helping with garaging - it just wouldn’t be hot enough i think?
I’m working on blowing beads - wanting to work with hollow vessels for an art project - but have had some crack / come apart when they go into the vermiculite to slow cool for the batch anneal … but that could be me still learning ! (I *am a beginner, just about to do my second course)
Thanks again
Jen

jenseev · #28 2024-08-11, 1:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESC

I used a used ceramic kiln with an external digital controller for years. The limitations as Kristin mentioned are size, no larger than about 1/2" and no 'sticky outy' bits. I plunged my beads into vermiculite as that was all that was available back in the mid 90s.

I had a glass (fusing) artist with kiln tell me years ago that you ruin a kiln for glass if it’s used for ceramics - something to do with the moisture in the clay, maybe that it permeates the fire brick?? I’ve not seen anything like that since, maybe with lampworking the work is too small to be affected but maybe it’s false anyway.. anyone heard of this before?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

danieljanse · #29 2024-08-11, 9:08am

Maybe using for ceramics and then glass (like right afterwards) would "ruin" that batch of glass.

I have done some fusing and if I wash my glass and load it wet, the surface of the glass appears etched or hazy when the firing is complete.

If you want to test your kiln, just place some clear glass inside and make sure it remains that way under the conditions you will use. No better way to drive out moisture than by using it.

I suppose there is a chance something from an oxidizing glaze could leech into the brick but I haven't heard of this...just run a little test with clear.

jesnbec73 · #30 2024-08-11, 9:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJohn

You can get those on Amazon for $30. They are ceramic hair curling iron warmers, or something like that LOL They get REALLY hot so you would want to have a good space where you don't reach over it and there is nothing placed near it. I mean REALLY REALLY hot. I wanted to use one for prewarming rods but it was just too hot to go anywhere safe on my workbench and I felt it was quite dangerous.

I got one of those Devardi Rod Preheating deals...
I have a pretty large surface around my torch so I put it nearby, my god it's like standing next to a woodstove, god only knows what kind of wiring is in there being from India and all and it is probably the scariest thing in my studio, and I work with hydrogen so that is saying something. But, it really does work, especially with thicker rods like those fat 18mm clears that I avoided for so long. All I can say is... NO FEAR!!! LOL