Reichenbach Deep Black alternatives?

[danieljanse]

I've only done a little blowing but could you apply the stringer or shards when you've blown it out a little more? I know it would be a little harder to control once you heat the snot out of it but could it be done?

Might could do. I think you foresee how the difficulty level starts to increase as things get larger. I'm using a yoke with rollers to hold the bubble to a flame and apply stringer or even cane. I've been picking up the shards so that parts easy. The heating...I probably need to work out how to do this with a torch so it doesn't get the whole piece so floppy. May be a combination of heating the entire piece and then spot heating the shards and stringer.

Another thing you made me think of is that I always encase the webbing. This may cause some blurring. Leaving these without an encasing clear layer would REALLY require I make them larger before adding stuff.

Things to try!

[KJohn]

A trick I learned when blowing shards, that did some nice webbing as well.....dark ivory or a mix of light and dark, with silver leaf or foil. I can't recall what the differences were, if any. But it fumes the ivory and creates webbing when blown into shards. So i don't see why it wouldn't work here. Sorry if you've already done that.

[danieljanse]

I like that! I've been silver fuming also but it is hard to keep the effect without it burning off. Also, the fuming tint tends to get diluted as a piece blows out.

These folks have some awesome effects worked out...I have no clue. Some even looks fumed...

[KJohn]

Wow! I'm in awe! Beautiful work. I would say those look like SIS stringers more than anything. Larger ones, sure. But they are not doing the stringer webbing with those. Nothing on youtube? Looks like a good project!

[ESC]

That is some beautiful use of IB and SIS.

[danieljanse]

That is some beautiful use of IB and SIS.

That's an interesting reaction to those pics considering these artists most likely are not using 104 COE glass. They are located here in the states where 96 is the furnace glass of choice.

I switched to 104...but I am very unusual in doing so. To my knowledge, an Ivory-like glass color doesn't exist in 90 or 96. Sure, they make colors called "Ivory" and shades that look the same. But anyone who has ever tried to get Effetre Ivory reactions has been disappointed. It's one of the reasons I was happy to make the switch.

Maybe the artists make something or identified a color reaction that is not commonly known. Maybe I can actually get a similar effect with Ivory as ESC suggests. I've just started playing with it and excited to continue...

[KJohn]

Are you sure it's 96? I say this because there is no 96 ivory that has reactions with anything. The effects you are going for are limited to 104, as far as I know. You said this as well. LOL So why would it be 96? You could probably ask the artists.

[danieljanse]

Hi KJohn. I just don't know of anyone else using 104 for furnace glass...except for Italians. There is no infrastructure to do so...meaning no pre-made batch for melting clear glass and very little available color rod (large diameter). It's been a challenge.
A video I watched of their process seemed to be a pretty straightforward, single large furnace design. Suggests they gather clear and apply commercial color. Of course there is nothing giving away these reactions which isn't surprising.

Tell you what...I'll ask. LOL

[KJohn]

yeah! Report back please.

[danieljanse]

Been a couple days and no response (email AND Insta messenger). No surprise...

I'm going to try some things based on Silver-Ivory. Also, the RDB!!!

Wish there was a really good supplier of Effetre in sheet form! I think shipping flat glass is just too iffy.

[KJohn]

Did you tell them you were a glass artist and want to copy them? LOL

I would say just to experiment. You will find all sorts of things you like as you go. Or work on something completely different for a while and clear your head.

Frantz is pretty good on shipping. I've heard good things about Mountain glass too, but I have not bought sheet from either.

[danieljanse]

Hahaha...not in so many words! I basically just asked if they were using 104 and dark ivory. Or if they had figured out a way to replicate the effect in 96.

I started hoping I could make a 104/glassblowing contact. Oh well. I think you are right about testing. I've only scratched the surface with Ivory and silver reactions. Time to play. My favorite part!

[danieljanse]

Got a response!!! What for it...
"Hello , just got this I am away right now. We melt 96 COE."

So, there is that to ponder. Hmmm. Dark Ivory-"like" reactions in 96 COE. ?s abound...Did some color maker stumble on the recipe and these folks bought it all up prior to them going OOB (Spectrum, Gaffer, Zimmerman)? Have they cracked the code and made it themselves? Is this just some funky frit/powder reaction.

Gosh...there are soooo many cool things to chase and I already have so many I am trying to perfect in my own kitchen. LOL

Just today, Lexington Glass posted this marvelous reaction on Insta which I am guessing (AGAIN!) is the red powder (selenium) playing with enamel white frit (lead). That is the best red powder I have ever seen! These guys are definitely 96. I tried a lot of red powders over the years and could NEVER get that kind of red. Kudos!

[echeveria]

Hmm I wonder if that is a Tobacco or Iris Orange or other reactive frit going on. There was a Vanilla that was touted as being reactive a while back. Can't remember which flavor, but I can search the site for the discussion. I could only find it in sheet, and while it was reactive, it was not dramatic like 104 ivory. There's a whole thread here on the desire for a reactive ivory in 96

And that's beautiful. Next time I am in Asheville I might ask them!

[echeveria]

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=57

It was Spectrum Fuser's Reserve Vanilla Cream. I did a little test bead with silvered ivory and dark turquoise. It did react, but not like 104 ivory. The silvered stringer sunk into the bead rather than spreading on the surface. Plus, not sure if Oceanside still makes it since they took over from Spectrum.

[danieljanse]

Before I switched to 104, I used OC vanilla cream (96) quite a bit. It gives a nice reaction but, as you said, is nothing like Ivory.

I like your speculation about the reactions in this new piece. The light-brown does look silver derived. The photo where the frit is white in the center made me think it was a white with reactions at the edges of the frit. These photos were taken from the same post so I think they are the same color technique. But how they got some of the frit to completely react (no white center) has me puzzled. Fuming?

I once tried to react a blue silver glass over an enamel white (w/ lead) and it turned gray. Gave a neat reaction if only it had been a nicer color.

I think it would be worth a trip to stop into Lexington studio and gallery. They do a little bit of everything.

[kevingreenbmx]

Originally Posted by danieljanse

I once tried to react a blue silver glass over an enamel white (w/ lead) and it turned gray. Gave a neat reaction if only it had been a nicer color.

the other way around, enamel white over blue, gives a pretty neat effect, with the reaction making a halo around each piece of frit.

[echeveria]

Originally Posted by danieljanse

I think it would be worth a trip to stop into Lexington studio and gallery. They do a little bit of everything.

Super nice guys.

[danieljanse]

kevingreenbmx: Was that a silver bearing blue color?

I was interested in the work of Noel Laue shown here. To me, it looked like powders were applied over a white core and then white shards/big frit were applied over that. Then sometimes he might add some more transparent powder over the white. It does NOT look like a water-crackle effect.

I am guessing (again) that the area around the neck of the piece was challenging to get "right" and so he would cold-carve each one as though chiseled from ice. He has sadly passed. This collection is an excellent signature for him. All are different but similar enough to know who made them.

I haven't gotten back to this because I don't have any rich transparent colors in 104 yet. I tried the silver-blue because it was what I did have. I suppose I could try a non-lead bearing white.

Any good, rich transparent suggestions (besides black)? I bought a medium green and it was almost colorless when blown out. LOL

[echeveria]

Well, not sure they are still available but these Effetre colors were too dark for my beads:,
Nessi, Green Dreamz, Oliva Nero

[KJohn]

For shards you might be able to use 96 lead bearing glass, which is MUCH more saturated.

A lot of the Eff colors will blow out more easily. But, perhaps you could blow smaller scale shards? And then add those to your work. That should keep the color of the 104 a bit better.

[danieljanse]

Thanks guys. The dense transparent colors like Kathy mentioned are what I'm looking for. Not just greens, but anything really. Smaller shards may be a good way to work with the white and perhaps even:

RDB, the subject of this thread, which did turn out to be special for webbing. The piece shown was overcooked as I tried to get some cane lines to do something. The webbing had been a nice heavy, black line but a second high heat seemed to burn away the color. Then it seemed to get blurry when blown. Not as badly as the Midnight Black. I think the major thing RDB does is web when thick or thin...everything else wants to be pretty thin to work.

During the high heat, it looked like the shards were bubbling up from underneath to create the web...pretty cool. I also love it when I really get the ivory to do its silver fumed reaction as well. It takes a lot to get it to stick around...not enough and the effect can disappear when encased.

Getting there! The process is fun as heck...

[ESC]

I'd say that's pretty spectacular! Isn't discovering glass science just the best?!

[echeveria]

Nessi is blue. And Effetre black is a very saturated purple. Mosaic blue and green are listed under transparents. Might be interesting to see how they blow out.

[KJohn]

Looks very interesting. I would say the lines are too thick so perhaps you are right and smaller shards with thinner lines laid onto the larger piece would work. Perhaps you will get a similar look as the ones you were admiring.
Also try IB frit!
Corals are usually pretty nice silvered and blown out.

[queenofsheba52]

Wow! Cool thread and great thinking! I find myself just putsing along in my own little color world and then I look at the new posts and BAM! New ideas galore!

Love these tests!

[danieljanse]

Nessi is blue.

I saw the name and though Loch Ness...Kathy Brash was so clever with names. I just imagined this was green. But WHO KNOWS what color Nessi might be!??
Thank you!

I've got to get more IB frit. I turned it all to powder which has been great but the frit does unique stuff.

I hear you KJohn on the later addition but it is hard to make myself do it. Feels like breaking a lesson learned early on about adding color too late. LOL

I have no Corals so that will go on my list! BTW I can't use ANY 96 color. Not even lead colors.

Thanks 'Sheba! I hope this thread helps spark some ideas.

A couple other things I wanted to add:
- I tested Trident Seals of Reichenbach Deep Black to Effetre Clear and it was very good, meaning compatible. Just 1/4 pt low on the Strainoptics polarimeter.

Colour Fusion came through again with a repeat order. Thanks Sylvie!

[Listenup]

Wow, this is the first time I noticed this thread. Beautiful results but if you're just looking for webbing on beads without having to blast it with heat, have you tried Effetre's Petrolium Green on Ivory? I play with this on a hothead all the time. Just keep it in the flame as the webbing spreads and take it out of the flame and into the kiln when it's where you want it. It gets black webbing on Ivory, but if you use regular white, it also webs. The secret is just keep it in the heat till it starts webbing and take it out of the heat when it's where you want it. You get much faster results on the ivory though.

[danieljanse]

We are getting some cool ideas on here that's for sure! Your resource page is just amazing...thanks for that.

I love those webbing reactions and not needing to super-heat the glass would be a good thing! Next order: Petroleum Green, please! I actually have Ivory Petroleum Green (591287)...wonder if that will do anything.

Here's a recent piece with some heavy RDB, SIS and more...I fumed the ivory with silver but it didn't take as well as last time. Haven't mastered that part as of yet, I'm afraid.

[Eileen]

Have you used any Double Helix glass? Sometimes it fumes the base glass when I use it as decoration.