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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #751  
Old 2008-12-26, 12:55pm
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I for one did not think YB was adding to the definition of hyperbole at all. I would think if I was adding to something, I would make it clear.
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  #752  
Old 2008-12-26, 12:55pm
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There may be tutorials out there that have wording in them along this line that are confusing to the reader.

The thing is, in the ensuing discussion about it, enough artists have stepped up and argued against selling of tutorial beads that it's still a valid issue to discuss.

I still believe there ought to be something clear with regard to what is design and what is technique and what is style etc., and how those things come into play, because those words have been applied in this discussion in different ways.

Goddesses are a style of bead and it seems everyone understands that. But, later on, putting glass rings around a spool isn't a "style" of bead but a particular artist's owned design. Putting rings around a spool, as someone else pointed out, is a design that has been around for a very long time in various mediums, yet, in this one, a particular artist is credited with pioneering it and now owning the rights to it.

It also seems that folks are determining what these things mean, based on their own interpretation of it and then passing that along as some sort of guideline for the entire lampworking world. Some have decided they are the authority on what these things mean and how they should apply.
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  #753  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:05pm
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Last edited by Kalera; 2008-12-26 at 1:07pm. Reason: Moving this discussion to the appropriate thread.
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  #754  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
I have read this whole thread from start to finish, and every single one of Yellowbird's posts, which she has made plenty of since the start of the thread, have just been cryptic one-line jabs, seemingly at Sarah.
Yep. Some might even call it trolling.
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  #755  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:08pm
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Kalera, when it was just 1 person that stated there was a tutorial that stated indirectly that the tute was not to be used to make & sell the exact beads, that wasn't good enough. Now, someone else has stated the same, but you still seem skeptical.

As for your 2nd paragraph, the OP merely requested that if tute writers didn't want their beads to be remade or sold, that they post that in the description of the tutorial so purchasers would know that BEFOREHAND. I see nothing wrong with that. I do see something wrong with spending money for a tutorial & then having conditions placed on the usage. This is all hypothetical in my case since I unfortunately cannot afford to purchase too many at this point. I don't think the request is without merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
So, allegedly, somewhere out there in the bead world, there is one tutorial, a deeply kept secret, with wording that leads one or two people to believe, not through direct statement but through implication, that the author would prefer they don't make and sell the exact beads in the tutorial.

And the logical conclusion is that all tutorial authors should state on their front page that they have no problem with buyers reproducing the beads for sale?
Jenfire, this is all fine & good, but I don't think it's practical for every purchaser to e-mail each individual bead artist for their intentions when a simple disclaimer would cover it all. If the tute writer doesn't mind copying, that's one thing. We're talking about a case where the tute writer implies that it's NOT OK in the wording of the tute itself, not prior to the sale & this is after some have spent hard earned money to do so. I don't see why this is such an unreasonable request.

Many in this discussion are assuming that most purchasers ARE going to copy & sell the same beads. Whether they do or not was not the initial topic here. The topic was a request to have any limits on the use of the tute divulged prior to purchase. Plain & simple IMHO. But we seem to be getting away from that & into this whole other discussion of copying. If, as most of the writers on here suggest that they don't have an issue with it, then that's great. Those that do & don't disclose it prior to purchase are the ones that some are having issues with.
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Originally Posted by Jenfire View Post
All I want to say is that if you have a question about using something, ask the person you are getting the technique from. They will be very willing to give you a clear and concise answer.
Jen
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  #756  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:14pm
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Lea, when it was pointed out to the OP that no tut authors actually are prohibiting copying for sale, she changed the request to giving outright explicit permission to copy for sale.

Also... has anyone contemplated the fact that the ONE tut that does say explicity, "You may copy these beads for sale", costs $100, not $15? Is that the direction these tuts should go in? I'm starting to think so.
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Last edited by Kalera; 2008-12-26 at 1:20pm. Reason: addition
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  #757  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:17pm
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Also, something that is puzzling me... nobody wants to post the exact verbiage from the tut in question, because they don't want to "out" the author. But, anyone who has the tut already knows what it says, and anyone who doesn't, can't find out which tut it is from a quote, because they don't HAVE it...
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  #758  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asil4 View Post
It also seems that folks are determining what these things mean, based on their own interpretation of it and then passing that along as some sort of guideline for the entire lampworking world. Some have decided they are the authority on what these things mean and how they should apply.
Exactly!!
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  #759  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:25pm
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or some folks know the meaning of ethics and moral values


edit to add: why are those folks portrayed as a bunch of bully's just because they want to defend what they feel is right?
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Last edited by suzanne; 2008-12-26 at 1:28pm.
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  #760  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:31pm
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Kalera, that's simply not true. I own 2 tutes that have specific language in them giving permission to recreate & sell those beads & they are not anywhere near $100. They specifically state that the tutorial itself may not be reproduced. I would copy the verbiage here, but I'm just not sure if that is acceptable & I respect the authors too much to go against their wishes. But, trust me, they exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
Also... has anyone contemplated the fact that the ONE tut that does say explicity, "You may copy these beads for sale", costs $100, not $15? Is that the direction these tuts should go in? I'm starting to think so.
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  #761  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzanne View Post
why are those folks portrayed as a bunch of bully's just because they want to defend what they feel is right?
Because this is LE.
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  #762  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:43pm
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My opinion, not that you care, but maybe it might help the debate.

If you are going to write a tutorial, then you must use language and verbage that is clear and cannot be interpreted in any manner other than its true intentions.
If you do not, then when someone does do something that you feel broke those unclear, muddied, grey area, rules or restrictions, good luck with winning in Court or getting any restitution or even coming here and bitching about it, then expecting support.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Make it clear! Stop fuckin the dog.

Is that clear?

Just my ever so humble opinion and thoughts on this issue.
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  #763  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
Kalera, that's simply not true. I own 2 tutes that have specific language in them giving permission to recreate & sell those beads & they are not anywhere near $100. They specifically state that the tutorial itself may not be reproduced. I would copy the verbiage here, but I'm just not sure if that is acceptable & I respect the authors too much to go against their wishes. But, trust me, they exist.

Do they say it on the sales page? Because I don't own any tuts, so I don't know what they say inside, after you buy them.
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  #764  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DianaDesigns View Post
My opinion, not that you care, but maybe it might help the debate.

If you are going to write a tutorial, then you must use language and verbage that is clear and cannot be interpreted in any manner other than its true intentions.
If you do not, then when someone does do something that you feel broke those unclear, muddied, grey area, rules or restrictions, good luck with winning in Court or getting any restitution or even coming here and bitching about it, then expecting support.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Make it clear! Stop fuckin the dog.

Is that clear?

Just my ever so humble opinion and thoughts on this issue.
I actually agree with this. People who write tutorials for sale should be absolutely as clear and concise as possible... that is a fundamental of good writing.

But you can't force people to tell you what you want to hear, and you can't force people to be good writers, either.

Also, it is a basic and unavoidable truth that not everyone has good reading comprehension, and no matter what, someone will most likely misread or misunderstand something in your tut, no matter how concise it is.
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  #765  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:46pm
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It baffles me why when I have said since the beginning of this thread that I was not going to devulge who the author of the tut was because I did not want to hurt them ,that it gets turned on me that this tut does not exist. Do you think I just had nothing better to do that day and thought hmmm heres an idea to create some havoc for myself. I could see if I was constantly posting on here and it was negative and shit disturbing you would think that that in fact was the case. Well I dont cause crap on here but because I tried to keep integrity it gets turned around and I guess it is just easier to say this problem does not exist than really deal with it.

Since this thread has started we have found out this is a widespread problem with many people. How can you ignore that. You can turn anything you want around on me and try to say I made this up thats fine, if it makes it easier for you but dont ignore the number of other people having this same problem. We have also found out that people not only have felt this way about one tut but others as well. Also we have found out people do not want to guess what the author is trying to say nor do they want moral or ethical speaches from them. So when you are questioning my integrity to try to derail this topic that this tut never existed how do you not look at all the other posters and scoff them off?

I dont care what anyone wants to say this thread was not meant to hurt anyone. It has only been a few that has made this into a them vs you and it has carried on from there. There are authors on here take took what people were saying and made changes because it wasnt a big deal and they wanted the public to know how they really felt. They took it as a positive. A everybody wins situation. People have also noticed how people have responded and feel now they can make better buying choices. If you cant see that I really dont know how else to make you see it.

I dont regret starting this thread. When I started it I had the concensus that I was the only one feeling like this and expected to get flamed for it and I was ready and prepared to take my public flogging. I did it out of frustration and really truly thought it would be better to know up front before purchasing what the authors expected. It was an idea. I dont post often but I am entitled to post like everyone else , when I feel like it.

As far as why I didnt email the author , well I remember a thread that Sarah started about people emailing her and even though it wasnt about a tut her going on about it and saying she really doesnt have time because she is sooooo busy. Other authors chimed in on that discussion also. So boy we really cant win on here. So many darn rules that keep changing, cant post pics of others, dont email on certain things, dont copy or do anything remotely close to someone or you could be publically humilated, dont ask questions, well maybe some but not others, and the list goes on.

Also I started the thread after buying a certain tut but have felt with other tuts they were also confusing in what they were trying to say. So I guess it was the straw the broke the camels back. I just wanted clarity.

As far as recently posting about Sarah well I am sorry but one can only take so much. I will leave it at that.

As of the more recent post about lurkers, thats just sad that alot of people in this community feel that they shouldnt say something because it may become an attack on them. As a community they have every right to speak out and not be attacked. Maybe we shouldnt be so quick to derail the topics, point fingers and out people, maybe we can just agree to disagree. Everyone should speak out and have no worries of attacks because there voice matters too.

Jen
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  #766  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:50pm
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I don't think you should divulge who the author of the tut is. I am simply saying, reproducing the exact verbiage in question would out NO ONE, because people who already have the tut know what it says, and people who don't, can't find out who it is based on a sentence that is inside the tut, which they can't read unless they buy it.
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  #767  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:51pm
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... and again, what the hell is so hard to parse about "make up your own mind about whether to copy?" That's what Sarah says. So why is she getting the brunt of hostility?
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  #768  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:53pm
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When someone buys a tutorial from you, you should probably send them a "thank you for buying this tutorial" email. Just a thought.
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  #769  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:56pm
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The tutorials I bought came with a thank you.
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  #770  
Old 2008-12-26, 1:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
Lea, when it was pointed out to the OP that no tut authors actually are prohibiting copying for sale, she changed the request to giving outright explicit permission to copy for sale.

Also... has anyone contemplated the fact that the ONE tut that does say explicity, "You may copy these beads for sale", costs $100, not $15? Is that the direction these tuts should go in? I'm starting to think so.
Kalera I am not changing my request just asking for CLEAR outline. People dont want to guess what the author is meaning. If they dont mind you selling the exact beads they say it. Dont say I dont care what you do BUT.........


Jen
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  #771  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DianaDesigns View Post
My opinion, not that you care, but maybe it might help the debate.

If you are going to write a tutorial, then you must use language and verbage that is clear and cannot be interpreted in any manner other than its true intentions.
If you do not, then when someone does do something that you feel broke those unclear, muddied, grey area, rules or restrictions, good luck with winning in Court or getting any restitution or even coming here and bitching about it, then expecting support.

Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Make it clear! Stop fuckin the dog.

Is that clear?


Just my ever so humble opinion and thoughts on this issue.
What exactly do you mean by this?? (so kidding, )
I actually do agree with this,
and I really do feel my verbage could have been misunderstood in its intent, howeverrrrrrrr, I dont have any rules or restrictions on the tutorial other than copying and or selling the actual tut wrongly. not the beads.
I dont think anyone who purchased my tutorials bought them for the literary genius I am, Ha! They bought them either to support me, to learn how I do that, or simply beacuse they have more money than they know what to do with, lol

I have recieved nothing absolutely nothing but kind words and good feedback on any tuts including the pansy tut, that had the wording I think people are uncomfortable with, as a matter of fact not ten minutes ago I just replied to an email of really kind words, and asking my permission to sell the beads on etsy, so not needed, so appreciated.I am thrilled she had such a success with the information! and she is happy with her purchase of the tut!

What do people want?? to make a form of how a tutorial should be put toegether and worded?

No personality, no fun, but hey no one can read between the lines, right?
bleh

Also I say in the email iIsend out with the tut, IN the tut, and on the page of each tuts listing, that I offer lifetime email support, and feel free to email me with any questions you might have. I would never ever feel that as a bother, or imposition, and Im sure most tutorial authors would appreciate that.

so anyways, sigh, I give up
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  #772  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:02pm
DianaDesigns DianaDesigns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lara View Post
The tutorials I bought came with a thank you.
Most of the ones I bought did, but a few did not.

Guess it depended on if they liked me or not...lol

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  #773  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
... and again, what the hell is so hard to parse about "make up your own mind about whether to copy?" That's what Sarah says. So why is she getting the brunt of hostility?
Perhaps it's because she doesn't leave it at that. She goes on to say much more than that and what she says implies that it's not an acceptable thing to do. As far as hostility is concerned- you might want to ask Sarah where hers has come from, as I saw a great deal of it directed at others before I ever posted in this thread.
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  #774  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:04pm
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oh buttttttt what I find funny is I receive great emails nearly everyday, about my tuts, and yet when there is an issue about a tut, instead of shooting an email to the author to ask, its a public thread?
Ive yet to receive any email personally with an issue, I have answered a few questions here n there, but never a complaint. All complaints come here?
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Last edited by Ever After; 2008-12-26 at 2:06pm.
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  #775  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
Because I don't own any tuts, so I don't know what they say inside, after you buy them.
Wait a minute. You don't own any tutorials and you don't know what they say inside, yet, you have vehemently and repeatedly posted that they DON'T say something specific?

Good grief!
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It takes a lot more "faith" to believe that man did all of this all by himself than it does to believe that he had help.

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Last edited by Asil4; 2008-12-26 at 2:09pm.
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  #776  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:07pm
DianaDesigns DianaDesigns is offline
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Originally Posted by Ever After View Post

I have recieved nothing absolutely nothing but kind words and good feedback on any tuts including the pansy tut, that had the wording I think people are uncomfortable with, as a matter of fact not ten minutes ago I just replied to an email of really kind words, and asking my permission to sell the beads on etsy, so not needed, so appreciated.I am thrilled she had such a success with the information! and she is happy with her purchase of the tut!
Cool, was it someone I secret santa it to?

No don't tell me...lol

I am a blunt person and I know that can sometimes grate on people.

I have not seen your Tut. I just sent it as a gift to a good friend, so I cannot comment on the wording you used.

But I can say that the person I sent it to, was thrilled!
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  #777  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:08pm
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jensy jensy is offline
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Originally Posted by Kalera View Post
... and again, what the hell is so hard to parse about "make up your own mind about whether to copy?" That's what Sarah says. So why is she getting the brunt of hostility?
She actually doesnt say that, it says
"To be honest I dont know. I used to spend alot of time thinking about such issues. These days, I have more interesting things to think about- so I'M going to leave it up to your own judgement. If I were you, I wouldnt want to be known as someone who sells other artists signature designs, so I'd probably play around with the techniques to develop something I could call my own. Like I said, whether you do that or not is up to you"

Well now , that isnt very to the point is it. Hmmmm I dont care BUT hmmm I have more interesting thing to do than help you , hmmmmm you might be called a copier, hmmmmmm, hmmm , hmmmmm.

Then to also know that one time started her own thread about someone copying her, she started a thread on not wanting to be emailed because she is toooooo busy.

Really then she tries to derail the topic in here, accuses people of lying because this tut doesnt exist, twists people words around ( such as with me in PMing her) Hmmmm I wonder why she is the brunt.


Jen
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AAA Gemstone Beads Etsy-
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  #778  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:09pm
DianaDesigns DianaDesigns is offline
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Originally Posted by Ever After View Post
oh buttttttt what I find funny is I receive great emails nearly everyday, about my tuts, and yet when there is an issue about a tut, instead of shooting an email to the author to ask, its a public thread?
Ive yet to receive any email personally with an issue, I have answered a few questions here n there, but never a complaint. All complaints come here?


yep

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  #779  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:10pm
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Ever After Ever After is offline
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thank you Diana!
what you said didint grate on my nerves, I do agree with it for the most part , just that it implied we have rules n restrictions on the tuts use, which I havnt seen anyone do. 27 pages later, lol
round n rounddddddddddd
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Last edited by Ever After; 2008-12-26 at 2:14pm. Reason: edited beacuse i cant freaking type on a laptop
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  #780  
Old 2008-12-26, 2:13pm
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Ever After Ever After is offline
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and on Sarahs wording, I find nothing wrong with it, its how she would word something I think, its her, and its honest.
The tutorial authors will not be the pioneers to this medium of defining how copying is looked at. Its just not going to happen like that.
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