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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2012-05-21, 10:22am
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EJohnsonArtGlass EJohnsonArtGlass is offline
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Default Bad muffle in Paragon SC2 Kiln?

I bought my Paragon SC2 bead in kiln about 5 years ago. Last summer the element burned out and I had to replace the entire liner (the "muffle"). This cost about $400. Less than 10 months later I have the same problem and will have to replace the muffle again.

It's not as if I overheat the kiln, which was made for PMC and enameling. I've never heated it above 1050 degrees. I lined the bottom of the kiln with fiber paper - neither glass nor kiln wash has ever been allowed to touch the surface of the muffle.

Has anyone else had this problem? I'm trying to decide whether to invest another $400 to fix it, or give up and buy a different kiln. I don't want to be doing this for the THIRD time next summer...

Update:
I should have re-posted here after I had my kiln repaired. The second problem was not another element break. The relay had gone bad. I've been given to understand that glass kilns are very hard on relays with the constant clicking on and off. The replacement muffle I had installed in 2011 is still working fine as of March 2015.

Last edited by EJohnsonArtGlass; 2015-03-17 at 8:03am.
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  #2  
Old 2012-05-21, 10:53am
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PittsGlass PittsGlass is offline
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I am not a fan of the invested elements. It makes for expensive repairs. A kiln with exposed elements can be repaired for a fraction of the cost (such as $70 instead of $400). While I can see some advantages such as no risk of touching the element with a mandrel, an element deeply grooved in the roof would provide the same feature.
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  #3  
Old 2012-05-22, 6:08am
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Cheryl Cheryl is offline
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Default muffler

Have you tried calling the company you purchased it from. This does not sound like a properly working kiln to me and I would think they would work with you considering you recently replaced it.
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  #4  
Old 2012-05-22, 6:16am
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There is a thread here about paragon kilns with a phone number and a customer service woman's name.....I stumbled onto it awhile ago when I was having temp control issues ( I use the same kiln) I would definitely try calling them. Something isn't right about your scenario.....they are very willing to help troubleshoot !
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  #5  
Old 2012-05-23, 5:35am
Arnold Howard Arnold Howard is offline
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[quote=EJohnsonArtGlass;4003021]I bought my Paragon SC2 bead in kiln about 5 years ago. Last summer the element burned out and I had to replace the entire liner (the "muffle"). This cost about $400. Less than 10 months later I have the same problem and will have to replace the muffle again. /QUOTE]

I'm sorry about the premature failure of your SC-2 muffles. This is very unusual for an SC-2 kiln. Do you remember where the element burned out on the first muffle? Can you see where it burned out on the second muffle?

The four element connectors must be very tight. A loose connector usually burns out. If this has happened to your kiln, then you probably don't need to replace the muffle.

You can tell by removing the kiln's back cover and looking at the element connectors. If a connector has fallen off, you can reattach the element wire using a new element connector.

Please let me know how this turns out.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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  #6  
Old 2012-05-23, 12:22pm
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EJohnsonArtGlass EJohnsonArtGlass is offline
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Quote:
I'm sorry about the premature failure of your SC-2 muffles. This is very unusual for an SC-2 kiln. Do you remember where the element burned out on the first muffle? Can you see where it burned out on the second muffle?

The four element connectors must be very tight. A loose connector usually burns out. If this has happened to your kiln, then you probably don't need to replace the muffle.

You can tell by removing the kiln's back cover and looking at the element connectors. If a connector has fallen off, you can reattach the element wire using a new element connector.
Thank you very much for the advice. Last time I had my kiln repaired by a serviceman. I'll ask him if he remembers the location of the break in the element.

I truly hope a loose connector is the problem this time. I will check the connectors and report back here.

ElizaBeth
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  #7  
Old 2012-05-23, 3:11pm
Arnold Howard Arnold Howard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJohnsonArtGlass View Post
Thank you very much for the advice. Last time I had my kiln repaired by a serviceman. I'll ask him if he remembers the location of the break in the element.

I truly hope a loose connector is the problem this time. I will check the connectors and report back here.

ElizaBeth
If the kiln does not heat at all, a relay may have burned out instead of an element. The muffle has two elements.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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  #8  
Old 2012-05-23, 3:29pm
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EJohnsonArtGlass EJohnsonArtGlass is offline
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Default Relays and Elements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Howard View Post
If the kiln does not heat at all, a relay may have burned out instead of an element. The muffle has two elements.
That's actually good news - you are correct that the kiln produces no heat at all.

I'll hope for a bad relay, which will be much easier to replace.

Beth
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  #9  
Old 2012-05-27, 9:22pm
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EJohnsonArtGlass EJohnsonArtGlass is offline
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Default Mark's Kiln Repair, recommended in Denver area

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Howard View Post
If the kiln does not heat at all, a relay may have burned out instead of an element. The muffle has two elements.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

Thank you, Arnold. You were correct - I had a bad relay. Got the kiln back today. Total cost of the repair $70 including parts and labor.

And kudos to Mark Newman of Mark's Kiln Repair. He's in the Denver area and I highly recommend his work if you live anywhere around here. He is fast, knowledgeable and reasonably priced.
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  #10  
Old 2012-05-29, 8:48am
Arnold Howard Arnold Howard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJohnsonArtGlass View Post
Thank you, Arnold. You were correct - I had a bad relay. Got the kiln back today. Total cost of the repair $70 including parts and labor.

And kudos to Mark Newman of Mark's Kiln Repair. He's in the Denver area and I highly recommend his work if you live anywhere around here. He is fast, knowledgeable and reasonably priced.
I am pleased that the repair was fairly minor. When something goes wrong with a kiln, I look at the least expensive repairs first. Often a kiln can be repaired by replacing a loose wire or a disconnected element connector.

Good luck with your firings!

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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  #11  
Old 2015-03-16, 1:39pm
Failariel Failariel is offline
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Default yet another broken element

My Bluebird, less than two and a half years old has blown another element. The first went 4 months after I bought it and was replaced free of charge. It blew again another 4 months after that, and still being in warranty it was replaced again free of charge.
Now less than two years later, yep - the element has gone yet again.
Now it's not in warranty. Now my expensive kiln is going to cost me money and time to get replaced.
This is in addition to the two relays that have gone in that time. At least they are cheap and easy to replace.
I'm seriously not impressed. I feel bereaved without it and I don't know long it will be to get it repaired.
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  #12  
Old 2015-03-16, 3:06pm
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Also you can call Paragon directly and they will help you figure out what is wrong without you having to pay a repair person. You do not need to know much to trouble shoot directly with Paragon as their customer service is great.
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  #13  
Old 2015-03-17, 12:09am
Failariel Failariel is offline
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I know the problem - there is no conductivity through one of the two elements. It worked just fine the day before.
I'm querying if it's normal for a kiln to require three new elements in under three years.
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  #14  
Old 2015-03-17, 8:16am
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EJohnsonArtGlass EJohnsonArtGlass is offline
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Hi, Failariel.

Three elements in 2-1/2 years doesn't seem normal to me. As you read above, I got 4 years out of my first muffle with daily use. Perhaps there is an underlying problem that may never have been corrected. Maybe something about the way the kiln is wired??

As you've read above, Arnold Howard of Paragon reached out to help when I was having trouble. His email address is ahoward@paragonweb.com. I'm not certain but I think he is one of their engineers. I would approach him directly. Hopefully he can figure out the cause of your kiln's recurring failures and get it straightened out.
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  #15  
Old 2015-03-18, 5:40am
Arnold Howard Arnold Howard is offline
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Failariel, I'm sorry to hear about the burned out elements in your BlueBird. That is not at all characteristic of a Paragon kiln.

How did the element(s) fail the first two times you replaced them? Did they break, or did they wear out? If they failed due to breakage, where was the break?

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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element, kiln, muffle, paragon, repair, sc2


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