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  #1  
Old 2007-04-18, 3:10pm
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Default Shaping flower petals

Okay so I can make flowers and encase flowers in a bead, but they all have a somewhat flat look to them.

How do I get the petals to cup and the edges appear to fold over. And how do I get depth between the petals?


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  #2  
Old 2007-04-18, 7:15pm
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Okay there have been 37 views of this thread. So the way I figure it there are 38 of us looking for the same answer.

So where are all the smart people? Did they all take the night off?

Vikki
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  #3  
Old 2007-04-18, 7:38pm
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I want to know the answer too!!
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  #4  
Old 2007-04-18, 7:43pm
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Well then that makes 39 of us!

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  #5  
Old 2007-04-18, 9:22pm
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Hi Vikki,

I use several layers to my flowers. The most layers of glass I have used is 14 layers, which includes the color for the flower (which sometimes is 4 different colors of glass). Be careful not to superheat the bead after you get the flowers on and start encasing - but make sure the bead is hot enough not to crack (that peeees me off when I do that!). After I place the white dots down for the petals, I melt them ALMOST in and then I put the color on them. Make sure that the dots are not way too big because once you put the clear over top of them to encase the bead, it sorta magnifies them... this is what I have found. I am not an expert in the flower bead making area by any means, but I have practiced a LOT to get me this far in making them.

I hope this helps...The only help I got in learning how to make flowers if from my good friend, Dee, and she showed me once how she made flower beads. From there, I just kept trying and experimenting, crying, swearing, wanting to give up, but just could not QUIT...I was/am determined
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Old 2007-04-18, 9:23pm
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I would wonder if a dot of clear in the middle of the petal may help it to cup.

Does Mary's tutorial one on creased petals help?
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...hlight=creased
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Old 2007-04-19, 4:24pm
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Sandy,
Do you mean 14 layers around the whole bead or just on top of the flowers or petals?
thanks
Cyndi
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  #8  
Old 2007-04-19, 9:37pm
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Sorry, I saw that after I posted, then got busy and forgot to come back and clarify a bit more

In the flower above, there are 12 different layers of glass starting from the base of the bead on up to the last encasement of clear. The leaves are made out of 3 or 4 different colors as well. The color of the flower has three different colors, base of white, then a special duo that I LOVE together to make the tangerine/reddy/yellow/orange color.


here is another view of the flower. This is not a wonderful picture - but it was not very nice out the day I "attempted" to take a picture of the bead.

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  #9  
Old 2007-04-20, 8:17am
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Wendy has the right idea! It has to do with the way you melt the transparent (not necessarily clear) colour over the opaque base petal dot. I also find it helpful to crease the opaque petal dots when they're 2/3s melted in, then add a dot of transparent the same volume as the original opaque dot. When you add the transparent, the opaque dot should be almost, but not completely flat. Try to centre the transparent dot and don't let it overlap the original - whereever it overlaps you'll lose the crisp petal edge. Now, melt in the transparent and try not to squish it down with a tool (I have a bad habit of doing that to spread it out, but it's bad!) because you want the transparent to sink into the opaque colour and make it cup-shaped. Heat the entire bead soft - but not spft enough that it will start to sag or spin. When the flower is almost flat, stop melting and let the base bead solidify. Then turn down the gas to make a pinpoint flame and centre it in the middle of the flowers one-by-one. This will make the petals melt into the centre. I usually poke and re-melt the centre for extra-perfect petal joints. Finally, give the whole bead a deep heat and plunge each flower centre DEEPLY (almost to the mandrel). DON'T spot-encase over the holes (this "bends" the flower petal unnaturally, in my opinion) - just encase the whole thing at once. Don't worry, you'll still catch air bubbles. Try to chase out the air between each wrap when you melt the encasing. And voila - it's that easy!

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  #10  
Old 2007-04-20, 3:50pm
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Thank you so much ladies!!!!! Now I can see exactly what I was doing wrong. I am creasing at the wrong step. I think my layer of transparent is too large as well. I will try plunging deeper as well. Gee it sounds like I wasn't doing anything right-LOL.


Did you pull the points out on the white trillium flowers? Those are beautiful by the way.

Thanks again- I'll give all this a try later this evening and let you know how it turns out!

Vikki
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  #11  
Old 2007-04-20, 3:51pm
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All the answers are good, I don't think there is a right or wrong way, just what suits you. I noticed you asked about depth between the petals. I do what Heather & Sandy do then after you have encased the lot, put more petals on top & do it again. With the clear between the layers you get lots of depth. I also do a lot of pulling & poking of the petal edges & sometimes I push the middle of each petal in with the side of my poker & fill with clear.
Cheers Kerry
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  #12  
Old 2007-04-20, 7:25pm
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DEAR GOODNESS, KERRI, I want one of those beads They booootyful!

Heather, your flowers are PRETTY PRETTY PRETTY! I have tried to do those types of flowers and failed miserably... I'll go practice some more

I have my niece's wedding I am making wedding jewelry for (which if May 5th), I NEED TO GET MY BOOTY OUT OF REVERS LOL
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  #13  
Old 2007-04-22, 2:15am
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hey kerry when you put your stamen cane in do you just poke straight into the flower then snap off and encase or do you encase the flower then plunge the cane through the encasing into the flower then encase again??? I have lots of trouble with stamen cane!
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Old 2007-04-22, 3:44am
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Hi Sandy, thanks for the lovely compliment. I sell my beads at a small craft market just south of Sydney, 2nd Sunday of the month, come visit……
Hey to you too Leanne. I do lots of encasing, between all the petal layers & over the top of the last petals. The stamen cane is the last thing, goes through the top encasing & as far as I can push it into the rest of the flower. I cut the stamen with clippers about 2 or 3 mm above the flower & then I put a drop of clear on just the stamen & melt in. Hope that help. Kerry
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  #15  
Old 2007-04-24, 9:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catts View Post
I also do a lot of pulling & poking of the petal edges & sometimes I push the middle of each petal in with the side of my poker & fill with clear.
Cheers Kerry
I liked this idea, and I used it (and Donni's idea about adding clear on top of pre-encased petals for extra shaping) for my latest floral, an orchid. It's good to break out of ones established steps every so often. Thanks Kerry!

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  #16  
Old 2007-04-24, 1:14pm
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I don't have pics to show yet but I TOTALLY GOT IT!!!!!! I even tried my hand at a daffodil and while my first attemt wasn't perfect it was without a doubt a daffodil! I poked and prodded the glass too. Got points and creases in my flower petals. The best advice was how much transparent to add to the petals, I was putting way too much on and wasn't allowing the solid to come up around the transparent. I was so excited as I was making the bead and getting it right that I was shaking. Had to just sit and flash the bead til I got myself calmed down!!!

Thank you so much for your help everyone!!!!!!!!! Sometimes the most simple of explainations are the best!!!



Vikki
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  #17  
Old 2007-04-26, 1:44am
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Good looking orchid, Heather. I love the striped petals, would like to see more...
Vikki, your excitement is contagious, don't forget to show..
Kerry
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Old 2007-04-26, 7:18am
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Just curious, how long do these take 30 min? 60? I think I have some unrealistic expectations about how long these take. I'm somewhat impatient
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  #19  
Old 2007-04-26, 10:54am
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Lynda - Anywhere from 20 minutes for a 3 x three-petal design in a donut shape that you can encase in one wrap, to 90 minutes + for a huge multi-flowered barrel piece with several layers of encasing. With the longer shapes you have to "chase out" the air channels between clear wraps, too, which seriously slows things down. For me, anyway... my ninja encasing skills are still developing. A big torch can help for the final shaping but you really have to go slow to get any level of precision. You can do most of this on a slightly smaler scale with a hothead, as long as you shape between layers and add glass strategically. I like to think that even though the monetary return per hour is rotten with florals (for me, anyway!), at least no-one ever needs to worry about "copying" or market saturation because it's impossible to mass-produce these things! And there are always new combos and layers and shapes to try.

Kerry - Thanks! I'm SUPER excited about the striped petals too. I haven't had much torch time this week but I can't wait to experiment more.

Vikki - we want pics! Breakthroughs are so exciting!
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Old 2007-04-26, 4:58pm
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I totally agree Heather, florals are not fast for me. I do know some can do them pretty quickly but I like to take my time, otherwise I get bubbles… 2 hours & more is not unusual for a large pendant style 5cm bead. That is an insignificant amount of time when you consider I used to spend months on a seed bead piece…When I was making tassels sometimes I would decoupage the tops with over 30 coats of varnish before I started on the tassel part…. So I don’t think 2 hours is much for a bead, the monetary return is actually better than a lot of arts & crafts. & I’m so addicted to hot glass, I’ll go back to the other things when my hands start to shake…..
Cheers Kerry
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  #21  
Old 2007-04-26, 5:13pm
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Such lovely beads! And thanks everyone for sharing so much information. It's wonderful to have such resources. Having different ways of having techniques explained should lead us to a way that works for us.
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Old 2007-05-06, 2:56am
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Smile question for Heather on encasing

Hi Heather, your orchid is gorgeous! I still do not attempt many florals because I am majorly not good at casing them...what do you mean by "chasing out the air". I've tried casing by wraping and by dolloping (sp?) on clear but have air everywhere and everything just smears because I get everything too hot. Do you use thin stringers to encase? Thanks for any feedback you can give, I really want to be able to make some floral beads at some point without smearing the heck out of them!
Star
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Old 2007-05-06, 10:10am
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Hi Star! I think this is explained best on Mary Moth's great encasing tutorial! She uses stringers but the exact same principle applies when using larger rods. Here's the link:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/24464/484/

And here's the main idea she explains with "chasing out air":

"When melting in your layer of encasing, do not rapidly spin the bead in a super hot flame. If you do this, you could possibly be trapping air in the channels made between your wraps of glass.

Instead, heat from one side of the bead to the other while slowly turning. This 'chases' any air trapped between your wraps of clear and lets them escape. Once you get the feel for wrapping the glass, you'll learn to remove trapped air while melting it all in."


Don't give up on the florals... it takes a LOT of practice but there are so many avenues to explore!
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Old 2007-05-06, 2:55pm
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Thanks everyone! All the flowers are beautiful!
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Old 2007-12-15, 11:54am
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Default You are great!!!!



I am new to the art world (Until recently, I was a biomedical engineer) and I am amazingly impressed with all of you for your willingness to openly share the knowledge you have acquired through a lot of hard work. You are terrific as individuals and as a group!!!

"Society" could take a lesson from the artistic community on how to better live, share and communicate with each other.

Thank you to all of you who participate in these postings.

Hopefully, I will get to the point where I learn things that are worthy of sharing with you as well.
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Old 2007-12-28, 6:40pm
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I love this thread!!!! Please keep it alive!!!! Vikki - did you get a chance to take pictures of your floral bead? I'm dying to try this...would love to see more - PLEASE!?!

DeAnne in CA
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Old 2007-12-29, 8:54am
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Good timing for me for this thread to pop up again! I'm working on designing a floral class for May in Regina, Saskatchewan (my first - I'm so excited!) and I want to cover this topic in depth. The questions and answers in this thread are great inspiration and I'd love to see more!

In response to your question by PM, Deanne, my orchid was made a lot like a daffodil, but off-centre, if you see what I mean! The first layer of petals was laid down over the first encasing layer. To make the 3 stripey petals, I used a ribbon cane that I had made ahead of time. I pulled out the tips a little. Then, on the same layer, I added the top two broad petals with layered transparents. I ruffled the edges by poking in from outside the edge of the petals with the tip of a cold clear stringer. Then I encased the whole bead. Once the encasing was smooth, I added the final petal at the bottom, so that the top of the final petal matched up with the centre of the flower. I did alot of layering on that one, and some ruffling too. (Totally inspired by Kerry!) Then, I plunged it, but not through the centre of the petal - into the centre of the flower, just at the top of the petal. I can't remember, but I probably spot-encased over the last petal, since it would have been fairly easy to cover with a drop of clear.

Here's the only other encased orchid I've made, way back in April! I should totally make another.

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Old 2007-12-29, 2:30pm
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Heather!!! Thank you so much for your clarification - and the picture of the "other" Orchid Bead you made - just as lovely, stunning and inspirational as the first!

Thanks so much to everyone for posting in the thread!!!! I spent about an hour last night (in our wimpy CA "chill", which was still quite cold for 'lil 'ol ME!) pulling cane and stamen stringers - I have to pull some additional striped canes to try and work for petals, I think maybe I'll need thicker ones than what I've made.

Hey, Vikki - any photos for us yet???

What a wonderful help this has been...I'm thinking that what I've written in the layout below might be the basic general reference steps to making a multi-layered floral bead, so if I'm "off" here or anyone has something to add, please speak up!!!!

BASIC STEPS FOR MAKING FLORAL ENCASED BEAD:

1. Wind base bead (dark seems to really make the bead in final form "pop").
2. Add "frit" or other, neutral decoration.
3. Encase in clear.
4. Add "vine" cane in twisted, random fashion.
5. Encase again in clear.
6. Add first "set" of lower-most petals, using "opaque" color; shape, crease, or pull out the tips for longer, thinner petals. Methods, depending on the type of flower being made, might be "dot", "stripe" or combination of the two. Add transparent color over opaque and melt in (not applicable in the case of the "striped cane" long, thin petals).
7. Encase again in clear.
8. Continue adding layers of petals, using appropriate method in step #6 above (dot, stripe or both), and encase in clear between each layer.
9. Add final petals (or in case of "daffodil" or "orchid", final "cup" or "beard", as I believe is called in the last, uppermost petal in the orchid. This would be the "dot" method, with some delicate "ruffles" possibly added with shaper method of choice, using either a pick or stringer).
10. Encase again in a final layer of clear.
11. Spot heat the center of the flower and use the stamen cane, clear stringer or tungsten pick to "plunge" into the center of the uppermost petal or center of the final cluster of petals.
12. Add a small "cap" of clear - atop the nipped stamen or over the plunged "hole" in the case of the petal cluster or orchid "beard".
13. Flame anneal and pop into kiln or crock pot with vermeculite.

How's this sound? Feedback please!!!

Thanks again to everybody!
DeAnne in CA
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Last edited by theglasszone; 2007-12-29 at 2:33pm.
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Old 2007-12-29, 4:16pm
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Oh Boy! I need a printer bad.
That is super cool. I can do lists.
I will steal time on my hubby's comp to print this out.

Thank you everyone for this wonderfull info and for the amazing eye candy.

Alison
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Old 2007-12-29, 4:31pm
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Deanne, Thanks for sharing your beauty flowers, and again for the tut,my studio is very close to being completed.Ihave a feeling your beads and tut will be invaluble in my creations,{Im a huge gardener so I love plants.
Thanks again Karen
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