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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2012-05-19, 2:10pm
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Progression in progress
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Join Date: Nov 13, 2011
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what all metals fume?
Okay so i know silver and gold fume but what other metals fume as well? And what colors do they make? If they do fume will they change colors too? I know this has probably been asked before but i cant use the search option since i only have a smart phone (this phone needs speical help)
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2012-05-21, 6:43am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
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Others will fume, but don't use them. Copper fumes and creates weird reds (and blacks) but is extremely toxic. Platinum fumes but unless you have a really, really hot torch you aren't going to get anything out of it. And the color isn't that great, so it's kind of a waste.
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2012-05-21, 7:59am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
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Yeah. Stick with gold and silver. Don't fool with other metals as many of them are highly toxic, and even the less toxic metals can give you metal fume fever. Use proper ventilation and live a long, healthy lampworking life.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-05-21, 8:42am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lewis
Okay so i know silver and gold fume but what other metals fume as well? And what colors do they make? If they do fume will they change colors too? I know this has probably been asked before but i cant use the search option since i only have a smart phone (this phone needs speical help)
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You can get the full rainbow of colors from just silver, gold, the combination of the two, and varying the conditions used to fume. I have good ventilation where I work but as a precaution when I fume I wear a dual filter respirator with P100 filters. These were recommended by 3M's application engineers for this duty. I think there are some undiscovered techniques and materials just waiting for the right person to develop but I am just coming up the learning curve with the these two and will be for years to come I'm sure. Lots to learn.
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2012-05-21, 2:06pm
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Okay i understand
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2012-05-22, 9:47am
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 08, 2009
Location: Revelstoke, B.C
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I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly more oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !
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2012-05-22, 12:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakedpeach
I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly fomore oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !
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for gold i use a small oxidizing flame. how are you setup?
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2012-05-22, 5:11pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 29, 2009
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Do you mean a small driving pin point flame Larry?
boy that is a mouth full.... say that one ten times fast
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2012-05-22, 10:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deb tarry
Do you mean a small driving pin point flame Larry?
boy that is a mouth full.... say that one ten times fast
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Tongue twisted
Not pinpoint but about a third inch wide at most. Must be oxidizing, though. I suspect that the setup will vary by torch. I am using a mirage and have been told that it is NOT a good torch for fuming but i cant judge how it is relative to others. Seems to work fine for what I am doing and i feel the indian is much important to the result then the arrow.
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2012-05-23, 4:17am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
Location: Out there on the interwebs
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I never had any problems fuming on my lynx or my 'cuda. On tanked or on concentrators. Silver will "smoke" if you get it hot enough, you don't need to actually keep it in the flame, I bounce it in and out at that point. Gold likes to be hotter (and stay hotter) to fume. The trick is to keep the gold in the flame without melting your "holder" rod too much.
Edit: just did a little research and my findings support my experience: Silver melts at just under 1000 degrees - Gold melts much closer to 2000 degrees (approx 1850 F). Thus, with an oxidizing (and cooler) flame, continuous heat input and some patience may be necessary. I typically go just a bit past neutral into oxy territory, with a smaller flame.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-05-23, 7:22am
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Senior Member
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Thanks for the info guys getting the flame just right sounds like the key.
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2012-05-23, 7:24am
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Progression in progress
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I normally go by sound since neutral is fairly quiet and oxidizing is fairly noise
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2012-05-23, 7:54am
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lewis
I normally go by sound since neutral is fairly quiet and oxidizing is fairly noise
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Doesnt really work for surface mix torches since almost every setting will have regions in the flame that are reducing and oxidizing. Try it and prove it to yourself. I try to always work beyond four inches from the torch face and that gives me consistency.
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2012-05-23, 8:27am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2011
Location: Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunyip
I never had any problems fuming on my lynx or my 'cuda. On tanked or on concentrators.
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I never listen to "them" anyway
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2012-05-23, 9:03am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2012
Location: Houston (ish), TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryC
I never listen to "them" anyway
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So, uh Larry, do you see "them", or just hear "them"?
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Gary
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2012-05-23, 9:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jngljnke
So, uh Larry, do you see "them", or just hear "them"?
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They follow me around!
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2012-05-23, 10:34pm
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Bernhard Riegler
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2010
Location: Northland - New Zealand
Posts: 452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deb tarry
Do you mean a small driving pin point flame )
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Hi Deb - use a small flame, but crank up the oxygen until the flame starts hissing. This usually works well for gold. Also, when fuming, hold the punty with the gold right at the tip of the blue candle, about 1cm - 2cm in front of your torch-face. This works best for me with constant results using a Barracuda on tanked oxy - center flame only.
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Bernhard Riegler - Bay of Islands - New Zealand
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2012-05-24, 9:02am
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Sweet thanks for sharing your tips, if I get into the studio this weekend I will have to try on one of the skull impressions.
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2012-05-24, 11:24am
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Pyromaniac
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Fuming practice: Make a small gather of clear (1 CM or so) on the end of a rod. Fume until shiny and extremely metallic in appearance. Repeat on new gather. Fume until transparent metallic gold with pink background. Repeat again on new gather until just turning pink.
Now repeat the whole process. Melt off your gathers off and turn the tail end into a loop. 3 sets of earrings or beads or whatever.
It takes a longish time to get a good solid reflective surface - but all you need if you're mixing gold and silver is for it to get pinkish to maybe a little metallic.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-05-24, 2:15pm
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Progression in progress
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Ive been wondering what makes silver fumed peices change color?
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2012-05-25, 4:11am
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Pyromaniac
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That depends on what you mean...
If you mean, why do they change when used? That's simple. The fume starts off with no backing and thus looks whitish and/or bluish. As the piece is used, it gets progressively darker inside. Thus changing color by adding a background to the silver fume. The range of colors you get depends on how you fumed the piece, and how well it was cooked into the glass and/or struck.
If you're wondering how the magic of silver causes color changes in glass like amber purples, however that's a whole different story. The August 2007 issue of The Flow magazine has a great article by Jesse Kohl which I suggest that you read which goes into the science of striking and color change in silver-based glass.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-05-25, 7:08am
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ManBearPig
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Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakedpeach
I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly more oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !
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You don't have enough heat and oxygen. On a concentrator, the oxygen is not as pure as tanked oxygen, so you need a flame that is even more oxidizing to fume gold. You also need it as hot as you can get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lewis
Ive been wondering what makes silver fumed peices change color?
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Resin.
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2012-05-25, 8:05am
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Borosapien
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Join Date: Sep 02, 2006
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this is gold fumed on a lynx with 2 5lpm oxygen concentrators.
i use 24k goldleaf
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2012-05-25, 8:06am
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ManBearPig
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I have found that on concetrators, 22k gold seems to fume better than 24k.
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2012-05-25, 10:48am
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Member
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Thanks Cosmo I am going to try to switch over to tanked and see if I can get it to fume better !
Forgive my innocence but what did you mean resin makes silver change color ?
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2012-05-25, 11:41am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2006
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Bakedpeach:
Guess you didn't read my post...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunyip
If you mean, why do they change when used? That's simple. The fume starts off with no backing and thus looks whitish and/or bluish. As the piece is used, it gets progressively darker inside. Thus changing color by adding a background to the silver fume.
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Think of it as tar. Because that's what it is. Smoking byproducts coating the inside of your pipe. Yummy.
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Chris Scala
Fortune Cookie say, "When things go wrong, don't go with them!"
Current Glass-Melting Apparatus:
GTT Lynx powered by 2 5 LPM Oxycons and
a sexy Barracuda running pure tanked Oxy
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2012-05-25, 2:09pm
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Member
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Join Date: Mar 18, 2012
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Now you (or maybe just me) would think that anyone that had a name that involved "baked" would know that. LOL. No offense intended, just found it funny.
Stephen
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2012-05-25, 6:58pm
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Member
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Lol none taken ! Never actually thought of that !
My husband is called bake all the time but his last name is baker !
Maybe i should be asking more questions !
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2012-05-25, 8:05pm
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
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Not to question the guys at 3M, who certainly would know quite a bit, but if you were to wear a respirator, wouldn't you actually need a VOC filter or a self contained supply setup instead?
For fuming you're definitely breaking it down past P100 level.
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-Tom
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2012-05-25, 9:46pm
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Cave Dweller
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Join Date: Mar 29, 2012
Posts: 275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menty666
For fuming you're definitely breaking it down past P100 level.
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Hmmm...
***Digs out old gas mask.***
I hate changing filters on the M-17...
Need to find a newfangled MCU-2P.
Joking aside, I'm looking at one of the supplied air respirators such as:
Fresh air respirator on eBay
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