what all metals fume?

James Lewis · #1 2012-05-19, 2:10pm

Okay so i know silver and gold fume but what other metals fume as well? And what colors do they make? If they do fume will they change colors too? I know this has probably been asked before but i cant use the search option since i only have a smart phone (this phone needs speical help)

Cosmo · #2 2012-05-21, 6:43am

Others will fume, but don't use them. Copper fumes and creates weird reds (and blacks) but is extremely toxic. Platinum fumes but unless you have a really, really hot torch you aren't going to get anything out of it. And the color isn't that great, so it's kind of a waste.

Bunyip · #3 2012-05-21, 7:59am

Yeah. Stick with gold and silver. Don't fool with other metals as many of them are highly toxic, and even the less toxic metals can give you metal fume fever. Use proper ventilation and live a long, healthy lampworking life.

LarryC · #4 2012-05-21, 8:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Lewis

Okay so i know silver and gold fume but what other metals fume as well? And what colors do they make? If they do fume will they change colors too? I know this has probably been asked before but i cant use the search option since i only have a smart phone (this phone needs speical help)

You can get the full rainbow of colors from just silver, gold, the combination of the two, and varying the conditions used to fume. I have good ventilation where I work but as a precaution when I fume I wear a dual filter respirator with P100 filters. These were recommended by 3M's application engineers for this duty. I think there are some undiscovered techniques and materials just waiting for the right person to develop but I am just coming up the learning curve with the these two and will be for years to come I'm sure. Lots to learn.

James Lewis · #5 2012-05-21, 2:06pm

Okay i understand

bakedpeach · #6 2012-05-22, 9:47am

I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly more oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !

LarryC · #7 2012-05-22, 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakedpeach

I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly fomore oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !

for gold i use a small oxidizing flame. how are you setup?

deb tarry · #8 2012-05-22, 5:11pm

Do you mean a small driving pin point flame Larry?
boy that is a mouth full.... say that one ten times fast

LarryC · #9 2012-05-22, 10:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deb tarry

Do you mean a small driving pin point flame Larry?
boy that is a mouth full.... say that one ten times fast

Tongue twisted

Not pinpoint but about a third inch wide at most. Must be oxidizing, though. I suspect that the setup will vary by torch. I am using a mirage and have been told that it is NOT a good torch for fuming but i cant judge how it is relative to others. Seems to work fine for what I am doing and i feel the indian is much important to the result then the arrow.

Bunyip · #10 2012-05-23, 4:17am

I never had any problems fuming on my lynx or my 'cuda. On tanked or on concentrators. Silver will "smoke" if you get it hot enough, you don't need to actually keep it in the flame, I bounce it in and out at that point. Gold likes to be hotter (and stay hotter) to fume. The trick is to keep the gold in the flame without melting your "holder" rod too much.

Edit: just did a little research and my findings support my experience: Silver melts at just under 1000 degrees - Gold melts much closer to 2000 degrees (approx 1850 F). Thus, with an oxidizing (and cooler) flame, continuous heat input and some patience may be necessary. I typically go just a bit past neutral into oxy territory, with a smaller flame.

deb tarry · #11 2012-05-23, 7:22am

Thanks for the info guys getting the flame just right sounds like the key.

James Lewis · #12 2012-05-23, 7:24am

I normally go by sound since neutral is fairly quiet and oxidizing is fairly noise

LarryC · #13 2012-05-23, 7:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Lewis

I normally go by sound since neutral is fairly quiet and oxidizing is fairly noise

Doesnt really work for surface mix torches since almost every setting will have regions in the flame that are reducing and oxidizing. Try it and prove it to yourself. I try to always work beyond four inches from the torch face and that gives me consistency.

LarryC · #14 2012-05-23, 8:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

I never had any problems fuming on my lynx or my 'cuda. On tanked or on concentrators.

I never listen to "them" anyway

Jngljnke · #15 2012-05-23, 9:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryC

I never listen to "them" anyway

So, uh Larry, do you see "them", or just hear "them"?

LarryC · #16 2012-05-23, 9:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jngljnke

So, uh Larry, do you see "them", or just hear "them"?

They follow me around!

Onekura · #17 2012-05-23, 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deb tarry

Do you mean a small driving pin point flame )

Hi Deb - use a small flame, but crank up the oxygen until the flame starts hissing. This usually works well for gold. Also, when fuming, hold the punty with the gold right at the tip of the blue candle, about 1cm - 2cm in front of your torch-face. This works best for me with constant results using a Barracuda on tanked oxy - center flame only.

deb tarry · #18 2012-05-24, 9:02am

Sweet thanks for sharing your tips, if I get into the studio this weekend I will have to try on one of the skull impressions.

Bunyip · #19 2012-05-24, 11:24am

Fuming practice: Make a small gather of clear (1 CM or so) on the end of a rod. Fume until shiny and extremely metallic in appearance. Repeat on new gather. Fume until transparent metallic gold with pink background. Repeat again on new gather until just turning pink.

Now repeat the whole process. Melt off your gathers off and turn the tail end into a loop. 3 sets of earrings or beads or whatever.

It takes a longish time to get a good solid reflective surface - but all you need if you're mixing gold and silver is for it to get pinkish to maybe a little metallic.

James Lewis · #20 2012-05-24, 2:15pm

Ive been wondering what makes silver fumed peices change color?

Bunyip · #21 2012-05-25, 4:11am

That depends on what you mean...

If you mean, why do they change when used? That's simple. The fume starts off with no backing and thus looks whitish and/or bluish. As the piece is used, it gets progressively darker inside. Thus changing color by adding a background to the silver fume. The range of colors you get depends on how you fumed the piece, and how well it was cooked into the glass and/or struck.

If you're wondering how the magic of silver causes color changes in glass like amber purples, however that's a whole different story. The August 2007 issue of The Flow magazine has a great article by Jesse Kohl which I suggest that you read which goes into the science of striking and color change in silver-based glass.

Cosmo · #22 2012-05-25, 7:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakedpeach

I have no problem fuming with silver, but I just tried fuming with gold foil, rolled into a tight ball, this weekend and I'm not really getting any effect. There's. Bit of pink on the rod but not the Maria area, what am I doing wrong? I'm using a cricket on a concentrator . Is it. It hot enough.? I'm use slightly more oxygen in my flame . I see the gold start to dance in the flame but its only a little bit and then stops ? Thanks for any help !

You don't have enough heat and oxygen. On a concentrator, the oxygen is not as pure as tanked oxygen, so you need a flame that is even more oxidizing to fume gold. You also need it as hot as you can get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Lewis

Ive been wondering what makes silver fumed peices change color?

Resin.

marcel · #23 2012-05-25, 8:05am

this is gold fumed on a lynx with 2 5lpm oxygen concentrators.
i use 24k goldleaf

Cosmo · #24 2012-05-25, 8:06am

I have found that on concetrators, 22k gold seems to fume better than 24k.

bakedpeach · #25 2012-05-25, 10:48am

Thanks Cosmo I am going to try to switch over to tanked and see if I can get it to fume better !

Forgive my innocence but what did you mean resin makes silver change color ?

Bunyip · #26 2012-05-25, 11:41am

Bakedpeach:

Guess you didn't read my post...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bunyip

If you mean, why do they change when used? That's simple. The fume starts off with no backing and thus looks whitish and/or bluish. As the piece is used, it gets progressively darker inside. Thus changing color by adding a background to the silver fume.

Think of it as tar. Because that's what it is. Smoking byproducts coating the inside of your pipe. Yummy.

hngntuf · #27 2012-05-25, 2:09pm

Now you (or maybe just me) would think that anyone that had a name that involved "baked" would know that. LOL. No offense intended, just found it funny.

Stephen

bakedpeach · #28 2012-05-25, 6:58pm

Lol none taken ! Never actually thought of that !
My husband is called bake all the time but his last name is baker !
Maybe i should be asking more questions

!

menty666 · #29 2012-05-25, 8:05pm

Not to question the guys at 3M, who certainly would know quite a bit, but if you were to wear a respirator, wouldn't you actually need a VOC filter or a self contained supply setup instead?

For fuming you're definitely breaking it down past P100 level.

Role · #30 2012-05-25, 9:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by menty666

For fuming you're definitely breaking it down past P100 level.

Hmmm...

***Digs out old gas mask.***

I hate changing filters on the M-17...

Need to find a newfangled MCU-2P.

Joking aside, I'm looking at one of the supplied air respirators such as:

Fresh air respirator on eBay