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Customer Service Kiosk -- Questions for LE vendors.

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  #31  
Old 2009-06-05, 10:01am
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Isn't this the same guy that Mr. Smiley was touting as being great at one time? If so I ordered two oxycons from him about a year ago - I rec'd both in a timely fashion.

One had a cracked case because his packing was huge bubble stuff which pops with the heavy load of an oxycon - he was great and sent me a new case which I installed - he didn't even want the old one back.

I'm sorry that you are having trouble with him - makes me wonder how good my 5 year warranty is.
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  #32  
Old 2009-06-05, 10:37am
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I hate when I analyze things but here we go....This is my feeling as a new day has dawned on me and I've had time to ponder over what was said. I will have my wording in red here and yours in bold black.




Quote:
The UPS driver walked into my shop and stated that they had a COD delivery, which I WAS expecting. He stated that the COD had to be a cashier's checkin the amount of 535.00. I asked him to take a check, he could not- I asked him to come back later in the day so I could go purchase a cashier's check, he could not come back- I asked him to wait for 30 minutes so I could go to the bank and purchase a cashier' check he said he could not. He said my choices were among only 2. Refuse the shippment or reschedule the delivery. So, rescheduled the delivery.

You were willing to go to the bank that same day for him if he could come back later in the day right? Then my question to you is why didn't you just reschedule for today? He would have come back today as it is a work day and you could have gone to the bank yesterday as planned. Why did you put it off all the way until Monday when this could have been resolved today? I am sorry for your stress. This will be over soon. jack (ps) the driver was very understanding. He also said that most people who require a cashier's check will notify the reciever so they can be prepared.
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  #33  
Old 2009-06-05, 12:02pm
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As an internet shopper, I depend on the feedback from others to inform me about unscrupulous vendors, weak vendors, dishonest vendors, AND fair-dealing vendors. It works both ways. I'm glad to hear the news that applies, to direct my spending dollar to the most appropriate market. Please don't assume that I don't read both sides of a dispute. I am careful about that, and I do make up my own mind, but without the sharing of info, how could I?

Good Luck Reenie. I hope all is resolved for you, soon.
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  #34  
Old 2009-06-05, 3:33pm
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Excuse me everyone...Jack in particular. I've been sitting back behaving myself reading all these posts. Although I hope to come across as well-behaved and mild mannered, I still need to say something.

Jack if you are TRULY experiencing financial issues (of any type) seek assistance. Maybe speak with a financial advisor re: bankrupcy protection.
I say bankrupcy protection because as it seems, you will be having small claim lawsuits hammering you from all directions. I hope that won't happen but it appears like that is what is on the horizon for you. Take care of your customers YESTERDAY.

Irene, you're wise to go ahead with legal action. I'm hoping you've been keeping all documents. As a successful business owner I'm sure you have. Best of luck to you.

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  #35  
Old 2009-06-05, 9:30pm
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If your going to run a business you should have enough money to take care of these types of problems. Every Dick and Joe thinks they can just start a business and have no back up cash to cover returns, broken equipment or any other unforeseen disaster, and this is the result. This guy obviously doesn't have two nickles to rub together and considers himself a business owner. This constant behavior of taking your money and not providing service in a "TIMELY" manor. or in some cases not at all, is not acceptable if you are a business owner that wants to be successful.

You can't run a business on good intentions and those ran thin along time ago with this vendor. His endless excuses are ridiculous and unbelievable. What business owner in his right mind would screw over another vendor in the same venue as themselves and not know that it was financial suicide, really not a smart move. You have Irene who runs a top notch glass business, many people know this from doing business with her and then you have this guy who can't refund her money, which in the grand scheme of doing business is not a lot of money if you consider yourself a business owner. Another not so smart business move if you plan on staying in business, unless the plan is not to stay in business for the long haul but to make some quick cash and move on.

Most of the vendors here are fantastic and will go the extra mile for a customer, those are the ones that care if you are happy or not without endless excuses.
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  #36  
Old 2009-06-06, 9:22am
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Quote:
If your going to run a business you should have enough money to take care of these types of problems. Every Dick and Joe thinks they can just start a business and have no back up cash to cover returns, broken equipment or any other unforeseen disaster, and this is the result. This guy obviously doesn't have two nickles to rub together and considers himself a business owner. This constant behavior of taking your money and not providing service in a "TIMELY" manor. or in some cases not at all, is not acceptable if you are a business owner that wants to be successful.

You can't run a business on good intentions and those ran thin along time ago with this vendor. His endless excuses are ridiculous and unbelievable. What business owner in his right mind would screw over another vendor in the same venue as themselves and not know that it was financial suicide, really not a smart move. You have Irene who runs a top notch glass business, many people know this from doing business with her and then you have this guy who can't refund her money, which in the grand scheme of doing business is not a lot of money if you consider yourself a business owner. Another not so smart business move if you plan on staying in business, unless the plan is not to stay in business for the long haul but to make some quick cash and move on.

Most of the vendors here are fantastic and will go the extra mile for a customer, those are the ones that care if you are happy or not without endless excuses.
I sort of think this post is unfair. There are other posts that state that they recieved excellent service from him. You are making a big jump here that because two people complain therefore he is not a good businessman. Times are hard 1 out of 10 Americans are out of work. Yes there should be better communication but some (mad hatter included) try to avoid nasty situations. We are looking at one or two peoples self editted explanations of what happened. Not that I am saying they or anyone is not truthful but it is human nature to edit in ones own favor. (Only remember the good times mentality). I really liked hagstromartglass's post that asked the vendor to "put down the bong". I am sure that this vendor knew who he was talking to, it was pointed and expressed a very short message. It doesn't try to ruin what business this person has in a very difficult economy and I am sure the vendor appreciated the very kind reminder. Taking it to this board and airing the dirty laundry is tempting "been there ,done that" but everyone is so reactionary here (not that that is always a bad thing). It becomes some big thing which only makes the situation nastier. Heads up we all have something in common here. Lets try to be nice to each other.
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  #37  
Old 2009-06-07, 4:14am
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Karen! Thank-you sooo much for posting this UPS info!! I was just about to dig it out myself! UPS WILL accept a personal or business check....They WILL also return later in the day to your residence/place of business...at least up here in Massachusetts they do.

Duane

Quote:
Unless Reenie specifically requested a cashier's check or money order, they should have accepted a personal check on delivery. (Then again, all things considered, I think I'd want a cashier's check at this point.)

The UPS website says this about COD deliveries:

UPS will attempt to collect the amount shown on the C.O.D. tag or package label, and then send the payment to you. If UPS cannot collect the payment after three attempts, the package will be returned.

When you select C.O.D. for a residential address, you will also receive UPS Voice NotificationSM at no additional charge. If you have provided the recipient's telephone number, then UPS will call the recipient to advise when the shipment will be delivered and the amount of the payment due. Your customer is then prepared to accept delivery at the first attempt, and UPS can expedite your payment.

These terms of service apply to C.O.D.:

* UPS will accept C.O.D.s for amounts up to US$50,000.00 per shipment.
* UPS will accept a business or personal check, or another negotiable form of payment.
* At the shipper's request, UPS will accept a cashier's check or money order only.
* UPS will not accept currency in any amount.
* The shipper assumes all risk related to the collection of the payment, including non-payment, insufficient funds, and forgery.


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  #38  
Old 2009-06-07, 8:19am
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Quote:
I see that once again, or should I say still, there is drama between vendors. Folks who sell on the internet seem to lose their perspective of day to day business problems.
I can't tell which side is right, but the dialogue between vendors is not helping the people who are just logging on to get information about glass.
This kind of talk really makes all the vendors look bad.
Letting it go would be good, no?
Just a lamp worker,
HITK,
Kurt
Ps By the way the bad language alone is enough to turn some folks off to glass.This is a public forum, would you talk like that in front of your children? Private e-mail would be kinder to us all.
Just to update you- This is not Vender Wars. It is simply people who have BOUGHT from a vender who has not honored his obligations to his customers.
I too am a customer and have recieved a partial refund, and still waiting for the other 105.00 owed to me. It was supposed to be the end of last week and I am still waiting. Renee
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  #39  
Old 2009-06-07, 9:10am
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Quote:
I see that once again, or should I say still, there is drama between vendors. Folks who sell on the internet seem to lose their perspective of day to day business problems.
I can't tell which side is right, but the dialogue between vendors is not helping the people who are just logging on to get information about glass.
This kind of talk really makes all the vendors look bad.
Letting it go would be good, no?
Just a lamp worker,
HITK,
Kurt
Ps By the way the bad language alone is enough to turn some folks off to glass.This is a public forum, would you talk like that in front of your children? Private e-mail would be kinder to us all.
I agree here that this should be done in private. I know that at least one person here is a vendor. I would second guess a purchase from someone that aired their business issues in a venue like this. It seems a shame to me that this is done this way. There are legal roads that can be pursued. My guess is that when airing your business in such a public venue that there might be legal pecussions on the other side also. Recently Charter cable recieved a cease and desist order against Direct tv when direct started air busines matters in an advertisement. This board is used as an advertising modem. As for the private customer I think that direct contact is the best and most like successful means of getting money back. Perhaps a registered letter? That way you are sure you are being heard.
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  #40  
Old 2009-06-07, 9:27am
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Most of use are business people in some sense or another... if none of us ever aired our business in public, how many more of us would end up in a bad situation, out money and with a non-functioning machine?

I'm not sure how ethical it would be to keep these issues under wraps.
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  #41  
Old 2009-06-07, 9:57am
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Sadly it seems, if the matter stays private it seems nothing gets done. Six months is a long wait. I don't see why people should keep customer service issues under wraps. As a customer, I would like to know if there have been past issues with a vendor so I can decide for myself if I want to do business with the vendor or not.

Did we not hear all the horror stories when Circuit City went out of business? Do we not hear on the evening news if a service or product was not delivered? That's even more public than the people who visit this forum daily.
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  #42  
Old 2009-06-07, 10:00am
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Personally, I think this situation has progressed as it should. It started out as private and as it became apparent to people that they were being put off, ignored or that the outcome was going to not be satisfactory, it became more public.

Sometimes negative publicity drives people to do the right thing when "behind closed doors" results in nothing being accomplished. There is a website that makes use of this approach and has resulted in big corporate empires finally working with consumers instead of against them. I think it comes down to this... if a business does what it is supposed to do, it shouldn't have to worry about these types of situations because they would rarely come up. If the business is having problems within their four walls, then it's up to them to resolve those issues rather than make their customers suffer for it.

I also think these types of posts are the electronic version of sharing experiences... kind of like "word of mouth". Very similar to those where you have a bad experience at a place of business and you tell people you know about it. Just because it is happening on an internet forum doesn't make it wrong... it's just a different way of communicating. I feel like it's an important way for us as consumers to learn where to spend our money... or not. And as I said, if a business doesn't want the bad publicity, they need to figure out what they need to do to fix the problem... it's not the consumer's job to waste their money because some people want to be secretive or turn a blind eye.

Publicity is free advertising... it's up to the business to decide if it is going to be positive or negative in how they handle it.
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  #43  
Old 2009-06-07, 10:33am
Reenie Reenie is offline
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Quote:
I agree here that this should be done in private. I know that at least one person here is a vendor. I would second guess a purchase from someone that aired their business issues in a venue like this. It seems a shame to me that this is done this way. There are legal roads that can be pursued. My guess is that when airing your business in such a public venue that there might be legal pecussions on the other side also. Recently Charter cable recieved a cease and desist order against Direct tv when direct started air busines matters in an advertisement. This board is used as an advertising modem. As for the private customer I think that direct contact is the best and most like successful means of getting money back. Perhaps a registered letter? That way you are sure you are being heard.
If you read all the threads, you would know that this has been done in private to no avail. Phone calls, emails, PM's were sent and I was "heard" as you say.
No problem there. The problem is words speak louder than actions.

As a vendor who promoted their business, I have an obligation to my customers who bought from me....trusting me that I was providing them with a company that would take care of their needs.
When you have 3 units sold and all 3 units were broken....that signifies a HUGE problem. One person has been taken care of but 2 more remain without a machine or without money they trusted to give to this business.

I have a "MORAL" obligation to let other's know that there could be a potential problem if they order a machine from this business. How can I not Air this publically and allow others to go through the same hell that I am going through now.

If you had $1,000 to buy a car that I told you was in good working order, runs great and no problems only to find out that I lied....Would you not do anything about it? Would you tell your friends about me so that they don't come to my dealership to buy a car because you know that their hard earned money would be lost?

I kept this as private as I could have until I started seeing how many more people were getting hurt.
If I kept my mouth shut......not one refund would have gotten out.
And I would have been just as bad as the person who created the problem.
Sorry but my conscience is clean and will remain clean!
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  #44  
Old 2009-06-07, 10:47am
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This whole thing is exactly why I don't deal in concentrators or kilns... what a PITA.
Sorry you got sucked into this mess Reenie.
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  #45  
Old 2009-06-08, 5:57am
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No dog in this hunt, but...

As a business owner, there have been a few occasions when UPS would only accept a cashiers check from me, and these were companies that I had written normal checks to in the past. No rhyme or reason for it that I'm aware of.
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  #46  
Old 2009-06-08, 6:31am
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I actually think Irene has handled this in the best manner possible. She was more patient than I would ever have been!
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  #47  
Old 2009-06-08, 7:10am
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Quote:
No dog in this hunt, but...

As a business owner, there have been a few occasions when UPS would only accept a cashiers check from me, and these were companies that I had written normal checks to in the past. No rhyme or reason for it that I'm aware of.
Me too..........for what it's worth......UPS makes Hot Hot Glass Color and Delphi run in circles for that check back to me.......don't know exactly why....nobody minds so we keep working it that way......
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  #48  
Old 2009-06-08, 8:53am
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I hope this works out.
I love my m-15 and hope to get a 2nd soon.
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  #49  
Old 2009-06-08, 6:59pm
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The local glass studio where I am ordering all my own studio stuff had ordered three from Jack and the one with my name on it has arrived, been tested and is in working order after a small repair. I get to pick it up this week.

I too hope that people with disputes get them solved soon. The glass world needs good oxycons and I do hear good things about the UO ones when people do get them, so I hope Jack can continue to sell and get back in good standing. I also hope that people get the money and products that are owed to them, as people can't afford to lose anything in this economy.
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  #50  
Old 2009-06-08, 9:22pm
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Quote:
the one with my name on it has arrived, been tested and is in working order after a small repair.
Seriously. That's pitiful.
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  #51  
Old 2009-06-08, 10:12pm
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Quote:
I sort of think this post is unfair. There are other posts that state that they recieved excellent service from him. You are making a big jump here that because two people complain therefore he is not a good businessman. Times are hard 1 out of 10 Americans are out of work. Yes there should be better communication but some (mad hatter included) try to avoid nasty situations. We are looking at one or two peoples self editted explanations of what happened. Not that I am saying they or anyone is not truthful but it is human nature to edit in ones own favor. (Only remember the good times mentality). I really liked hagstromartglass's post that asked the vendor to "put down the bong". I am sure that this vendor knew who he was talking to, it was pointed and expressed a very short message. It doesn't try to ruin what business this person has in a very difficult economy and I am sure the vendor appreciated the very kind reminder.Taking it to this board and airing the dirty laundry is tempting "been there ,done that" but everyone is so reactionary here (not that that is always a bad thing). It becomes some big thing which only makes the situation nastier. Heads up we all have something in common here. Lets try to be nice to each other.
So in your opinion, people would rather do business with a vendor knowing he smokes pot and the accused vendor would "appreciate" the fact that it's posted on a public forum that he is doing something illegal.

I'm sure if given the choice, most customers would prefer to do business with a vendor who has to be reminded to "put down the bong" in order to complete a successful transaction where their hard earned money was involved. Another good business suggestion.
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  #52  
Old 2009-06-09, 11:41am
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So, Reenie, do you know if Jack took the return yesterday, as "promised?" Just wondering.
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  #53  
Old 2009-06-09, 12:46pm
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Me, too. Crossing my fingers for you.

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  #54  
Old 2009-06-09, 3:17pm
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Sorry I haven't updated. Been swamped and just trying to get caught up before summer school starts up on Monday.
The machine was accepted by Jack on Monday. Now just waiting to see the money order or however it was paid.
Renee got an email saying she will be getting her refund this week so hopefully both matters will be resolved by Friday.
I will update again when all is done and I can finally put this experience behind me.
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  #55  
Old 2009-06-09, 4:46pm
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I've been down this whole road with UO as well and have been spitting nails here trying not to go all coo-coo for cocoa puffs with an over the top response.
The long and the short of it is that I ordered a concentrator-it arrived with a problem I could not fix. And the saga began...
Months (and I mean months) went by with phone messages, emails....always a reassuring end to the conversation only to have my underwear all in a twist until I had to start the whole process over. I ship neon all over the United States and was understanding the first time that the heavy (and large) package might have withstood some bumpage along the way. When a promised call tag was never issued and my messages became more heated, I finally had a second unit delivered. It arrived much later than promised (because he said he was waiting for packing materials to arrive). The second unit arrived and did not work either but thankfully a member of LE who lives nearby fixed it. The paperwork with the second unit said that it had a 3 year guarantee (I purchased the initial one with the understanding it was 5 years). Jack said he would honor the 5 years and said I could keep a copy of the email as proof (I asked for it in writing). Guess I couldn't keep this short but that is the long of it. I have all my correspondence, pics etc. He really seems to be a nice guy on the phone (so did the lady who worked for him) but really? Thankfully I had a backup unit but it makes me insane all the people who have posted saying it would have been better to have kept this quiet. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I think the reason this has continued to happen to customer after customer is because people HAVE been quiet. The problem is in the packing, plain and simple. If I had that many neon signs break and had to deal with angry customers I would have given up a long time ago (or changed my method of packing). For those of you who have gotten a unit that arrived in working order....good for you-but you could have just as easily been on the other side of the fence-and may be some day. Best of luck to you.
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  #56  
Old 2009-06-10, 6:46am
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Mitosis Glass Mitosis Glass is offline
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I haven't talked to the studio yet to find out the nature of the problem, but at least the unit wasn't all smashed to frit like in some of the other pics on this thread (thank God). I don't know if it was a packing issue or a carrier issue or what. I'm just glad it works.

I am continuing to post about my experience as it unfolds because I was complaining about Jack in the last thread and I did say that if things did work out, I would post that as well.

I'm not trying to take sides or keep any fires burning. I'm just trying to offer the perspective of another customer. Customer by proxy, rather, since the studio has been dealing with Jack themselves.

Once it's set up in my own garage (by this weekend!) I'll comment about it also.

And I will repeat: I do hope that the people who are awaiting resolution on their situations will find things working in their favour sooner than later.
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  #57  
Old 2009-06-11, 6:51pm
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mtnlaurel mtnlaurel is offline
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Still waiting.......
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  #58  
Old 2009-06-11, 7:46pm
Reenie Reenie is offline
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OY! Thanks for the update.
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  #59  
Old 2009-06-12, 6:50pm
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Renee Renee is offline
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Uh, oh. No update today. Not good.
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  #60  
Old 2009-06-12, 7:10pm
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oxydoc oxydoc is offline
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I sent you MO out Thursday Priority Mail. You should have it by now
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