Can you help me with dichroic glass?

SLY Creations · #1 2010-07-29, 7:43pm

I am trying to put a strip of dichroic at the bottom of a cone shaped bead before I smash it into a heart shape. The dichro keeps cracking and burning off before I finish the bead. Can anyone give me hints on how to work dichro? Should I encase the whole strip of dichro and not just the edges?

HELP!!! Thanks, Sharon

SadiesJewels · #2 2010-07-29, 8:20pm

Umm ... the dichro is cracking? Could you post a picture?

Dichro needs to be kept cool to prevent burning off ... I tend to encase it no matter what when I use it, but there are people who use it on the surface most effectively. I suggest you get hold of a copy of Pat Frantz's dvd/video if you are using dichro on the surface. That should give you a few pointers...

Good luck!

Sadie

jamie lynne · #3 2010-07-29, 8:41pm

It also helps if you apply it upside down. With the coating going directly on the bead... only works for the clear stuff obviously.

But that clear base helps prevent burn off. I have heard that the less expensive Divardi dichro (I'm not sure but I think this is what I read) makes dichro that is impossible to use. Burns off instantly. BUT that thread is huge and I'm not in the mood for a novel.

So anyway... what brand are you using?

Robin Passovoy · #4 2010-07-29, 8:49pm

With clear-backed dichro, it's best to use it glitz-side down unless you're working it *really* cool or as a last-minute application. Black-backed dichro needs to be encased unless it's a last-minute thing, too. Every time I leave the stuff unencased, the glitz burns off, leaving a gross gray scum. Oddly enough, I've had my best dichro results when working on a Hot Head torch. That wide, bushy flame is good.

SLY Creations · #5 2010-07-30, 7:48am

Thanks for the responses, I will try to get a picture today of my problems so you can see what is happening.

Sadie, I have Pat's video and stopped to watch it after the first three failed attempts. Part of my problem is that the bead is a lot thicker than the small beads Pat demonstrates in her video, so that I can't smash it flat as I apply it and that is why I think it is cracking where it isn't smashed into the bead as I apply the dichro. Does that make sense?

Jamie, I am using the 104coe Sandberg coated dichro. It has the thicker coating of clear, so it is hard to melt it down without getting it too hot. I know what you mean about some of the other brands, it flat disappears.

Robin, I will definitely try turning my oxy down a little bit and get a bushier flame, but doesn't that make my flame hotter?

Need to eat breakfast, so I can try this again, I will try to get pictures. Dichro is a real hit, miss thing with me.

Cosmo · #6 2010-07-30, 7:57am

Dichroic loves oxygen. When I work dichroic, I crank my inner oxygen up pretty high and open the outside oxygen. So I've basically got a super-oxidizing flame that is somewhat cool and is very gentle on dichroic.

I only use borosilicate, but I'm assuming that 104 dichroic is the same.

SLY Creations · #7 2010-07-30, 8:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Dichroic loves oxygen. When I work dichroic, I crank my inner oxygen up pretty high and open the outside oxygen. So I've basically got a super-oxidizing flame that is somewhat cool and is very gentle on dichroic.

I only use borosilicate, but I'm assuming that 104 dichroic is the same.

Glad I saw this before I turned my oxy down. Off to the torch. Thanks Cosmo.

Lorraine Chandler · #8 2010-07-30, 8:58am

Hi, sorry to hear you are having dichro problems. I just took a class with Leah and she used a lot of dichro, here is how we did it in class and how I have learned from you tube videos and from Pat Frantz dichro video etc:

1. made sure the dichro was laid down onto t he base bead and not the clear side. Took awhile to learn how to tell which side was which side was clear as her dichro was very smooth. It was also very wide strips.

2. Get the base bead just hot enough to get the edge of the dichro to stick.

3. Slowly wrapped the dichro around the bead, I mean slowly, we all kept wanting to hurry it and she kept telling us to go slower.

4. Then after it was on we bathed the whole bead but not much and then concentrated the flame in the cut off area, which of course left a bit of an overlap. Then we spot heated the overlap and all other areas of dichro small areas at a time and used a paddle and lightly marver and flatten the spot heated area.

This cooled it down but helped to flatten and shape it also. Did this all the way around the bead until it was marved how we wanted it and the overlap was completely blended in. Seemed like it took forever!

It took quite awhile always bathing it after marvering each little area. Then the clear goes on after the bead has been bathed in heat but is still pretty cool so we didn't mess up the job we had just completed.

Our beads turned out perfect and I am no longer afraid of large beads or large wide strips strips of dichro.

Hope this can help. The main thing was to work very slowly...Taking a class really helps. If you can ever take her class do it.
Lorraine

SLY Creations · #9 2010-07-30, 11:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler

Hi, sorry to hear you are having dichro problems. I just took a class with Leah and she used a lot of dichro, here is how we did it in class and how I have learned from you tube videos and from Pat Frantz dichro video etc:

1. made sure the dichro was laid down onto t he base bead and not the clear side. Took awhile to learn how to tell which side was which side was clear as her dichro was very smooth. It was also very wide strips.

2. Get the base bead just hot enough to get the edge of the dichro to stick.

3. Slowly wrapped the dichro around the bead, I mean slowly, we all kept wanting to hurry it and she kept telling us to go slower.

4. Then after it was on we bathed the whole bead but not much and then concentrated the flame in the cut off area, which of course left a bit of an overlap. Then we spot heated the overlap and all other areas of dichro small areas at a time and used a paddle and lightly marver and flatten the spot heated area.

This cooled it down but helped to flatten and shape it also. Did this all the way around the bead until it was marved how we wanted it and the overlap was completely blended in. Seemed like it took forever!

It took quite awhile always bathing it after marvering each little area. Then the clear goes on after the bead has been bathed in heat but is still pretty cool so we didn't mess up the job we had just completed.

Our beads turned out perfect and I am no longer afraid of large beads or large wide strips strips of dichro.

Hope this can help. The main thing was to work very slowly...Taking a class really helps. If you can ever take her class do it.
Lorraine

Lorraine, thanks so much for this info. I have water bathed the last two beads I made, aargh... I will try to go slower. I would love to take Leah's class, it is on my list, however, I have found that now that I am retired I have the time but not the money. Such is life. I have plenty of time to PPP. I won't give up. I have had my break and its back to the torch.

killerbeedz1 · #10 2010-07-31, 1:33pm

[quote=Lorraine Chandler;3141184]Hi, sorry to hear you are having dichro problems. I just took a class with Leah and she used a lot of dichro, here is how we did it in class and how I have learned from you tube videos and from Pat Frantz dichro video etc:

1. made sure the dichro was laid down onto t he base bead and not the clear side. Took awhile to learn how to tell which side was which side was clear as her dichro was very smooth. It was also very wide strips.

Can you clarify #1? Do you mean you are putting the dichro down on the base bead with the dichro up. I've always done this opposite with the clear facing up so I didn't burn the dichro.

Patsy

squid · #11 2010-07-31, 2:02pm

I think she means the dichro side was laid down against the bead, not the clear side.

killerbeedz1 · #12 2010-07-31, 7:25pm

Okay thanks Squid. I've used dichro several times, but I have to be in a mood and have more patience than I normally have to do it. I always lay the dichro down against the bead.

Patsy

SLY Creations · #13 2010-08-02, 5:57pm

OK, here is the sad story. I finally got some dichro to stick, but it burned off quite a bit. I had to add a lot of glass top and bottom to cover the scum so it looks pretty thin. At least it is still kinda shiney, but you can see a lot of the burned off part too. These beads are worked on for over an hour and a half, and it seems it just doesn't want to cooperate. This photo shows the dichro at the bottom. Please remember these are a work in progress.

Then I tried putting goldstone at the bottom and encasing with Ekho, not what I wanted but the bead as a whole was better.

Want to keep trying but my kiln took a dump last night. Have a call into the mfg. to bring it in for a tune up.

Any and all criticism welcome and naturally any advice. I really appreciate the help you are giving me.

Thanks, Sharon

SadiesJewels · #14 2010-08-02, 7:32pm

Wow ... beautiful bead ... Is that one of Lydia's tutorials?

As you're having dichro problems and the bead is so complex I think it would help you to practice applying dichro to some basic beads first ... get the feel of it and what it likes/ hates. I think then you'll find it easier to do what you want to do with it and all that work on such a beautiful bead won't have to be water annealed.

The first time I did any dichro was in a Bronwen Heilman class and she picked off the scum ... I've taken classes since where people didn't bother and in the end it wasn't noticeable. I vary. Sometimes it needs it sometimes I get away with it ...

SLY Creations · #15 2010-08-02, 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadiesJewels

Wow ... beautiful bead ... Is that one of Lydia's tutorials?

As you're having dichro problems and the bead is so complex I think it would help you to practice applying dichro to some basic beads first ... get the feel of it and what it likes/ hates. I think then you'll find it easier to do what you want to do with it and all that work on such a beautiful bead won't have to be water annealed.

The first time I did any dichro was in a Bronwen Heilman class and she picked off the scum ... I've taken classes since where people didn't bother and in the end it wasn't noticeable. I vary. Sometimes it needs it sometimes I get away with it ...

Thanks Sadie, yes this is one of Lydia's tutorials. I LOVE her tutorials. http://www.lampworktreasures.com/har...stutorial.html