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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2012-04-27, 8:44am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 11, 2009
Location: Massachusetts...I95 south...before Rhode Island
Posts: 2,006
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Florals
Uggghh! Why can't I do those plunged florals?! They're driving me to drink*(well not now, I'm at work). I can do floral implosions and topical florals relatively fine but plunged? FORGET IT! I think I've purchased and or have in my possession every possible tutorial there is on these suckers but I must be doing something wrong.
I'm talking about the kind of florals where you put down 3-5 dots, melt them in, put clear dots down, melt in....etc. I'm clueless with them
Still trying
Duane
* since they're driving me to drink I'm having my drink BEFORE I attempt them...maybe thats what the problem is
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2012-04-27, 9:31am
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Lampworkaholic!
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Ppp. I have been making them for 4 years and I am mostly happy with 3 out of 4 or so, but it was a long strange trip to get this far....
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2012-04-27, 5:20pm
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Happy Inner Dragon
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia
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I'm in the same boat as you, Duane. I've been trying them for a year now, and it's still hit-and-miss in terms of success!
I'm afraid Elizabeth might be right.
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2012-04-27, 11:35pm
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Senior Member
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I thought plunged beads were where you stuck a poker or stringer in the center of the flower.
how about posting pix of your failures so we can get an idea of what's going wrong?
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2012-04-28, 12:06am
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Unmedicated since '62
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Which tutorials do you have?
You coming to PJ's? I'll give you a lesson on plunged florals
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2012-04-28, 8:01am
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honorary bead lady
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I finally gave up!
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2012-04-28, 9:11am
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I've never had much trouble with them.
1. 3-5 dots of white in a circle, melt them in.
2. Dot a transparent color over them, melt those in.
3. Spot-heat the circle until the dots slump together, then plunge a pick right into the point where the dots converge.
4. Let cool a little, then put a dot of transparent or clear over the hole and gently melt in, so that a tiny bubble forms.
Encase if you want, but it isn't necessary. You can also use a bit of stamen cane pulled into a stringer to do the plunging; just blow gently on the bead to cool the stringer enough to snap it off at the surface and then drop a dot of clear over it.
Another fun thing to do is to make "climbing rose" branches first:
1. Place tiny dots of white in curls and rows over the base bead, melt them in.
2. Place dots of green transparent over the white. You can leave a little white uncovered if you like the variegated look.
3. Melt those in, then take a pick and rake the dots gently, either to the side or right down the middle of the lines, so they look like leaves.
The trick is to work cool, spot-heating where necessary. Yes, it's impossibly fiddling work and requires patience and practice, and there's a certain amount of swearing involved when you discover that certain colors are aggressive and will eat the others if not encased, but the results can be amazing.
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2012-04-28, 9:45am
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Senior Member
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The best tip I got recently was to rest the tip of the mandrel on the torch to stabilize it when plunging.
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2012-04-28, 9:51am
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They see me rollin'...
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Thank you for the instructions! On #2, do you mean to put a dot of transparent on each petal, or one dot of transparent over the whole thing?
I've been lampworking for almost 11 years now, and my plunged florals look ok, but could probably be better. One thing I have trouble with is step #2.
Thanks!
-Patti
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-Patti
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2012-04-28, 10:06am
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Robin, do you possibly have a picture of the climbing rose branches? I can't wrap my head around your explanation. But then, some of the simplest things escape me.
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2012-04-28, 11:07am
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Lover of all things color
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I've stayed away from florals for all the same reasons. I think my problem is getting the 5 dots spaced correctly, no I know that's my problem...LOL
And the climbing rose branch thing...I have a problem getting the dots too far apart so that when you do the rake...nothing happens. (shakes head) I know PPP.
I'm in denial, when it doesn't work I go back to organics...LOL
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2012-04-28, 11:41am
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Senior Member
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Here is how I do it if you would like to try it.
Put down your white dots and melt in but don't marver.
Put down your color and melt in. Wait until a "skin" forms so your dots are cold
but the bead is hot. Press the melted down dots into the hot bead straight down.
Repeat until all of your petal layers are done.
Heat the whole bead and again, wait for the "skin" to form and then plunge
the center. This way you don't just get a hole, you are actually pulling all of the petals into the hole so you get depth.
Encase the whole bead. I find if I put clear only in the center of the
flower, a ring forms and I don't like that.
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Cynthia
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2012-04-28, 12:43pm
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In step 2, just a dot of transparent over the white, just big enough to cover. If you like, you can put a smaller dot of transparent on the inner side of the white dots, which will give your petals white edges and a little more depth.
I don't have any pics of the climbing rose, unfortunately--my computer doesn't like my camera anymore and is refusing to speak to it. I will admit that I could have explained that technique better, though.
Basically, what I do is place the dots very close together in lines that wander around like untrimmed rose canes, usually about 1/16" or 1/8" apart, melt them in, and then use my pick to sort of gently push them into each other. I start at one end of the line, place the pick on the outside edge of the first dot, and push it so that it squishes into a heart shape and bumps into the second one, which pushes that dot into a similar shape. Place the pick on the center of the second dot and shove it into the third, and so on. The result is surprisingly leafy. The dots can be pushed in other directions too, if you want a bushier or thornier look. My dots tend to be tiny, but good results can be had with larger ones.
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2012-04-29, 2:42pm
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I discovered a long time ago a little trick to get even spacing for the dots. First I put a tiny black dot where I am going to plunge the flower and melt almost flat. Then I space my white (or my latest preference Silver Pink (doesn't bleed as much) dots around the black dot. Melt almost flat and cover with transparent of choice. Melt in and follow instuctions Haley gave for flattening, plunging and encasing. The little black dot is red when hot making it easy to see the exact center and gives a nice dark background for the trapped air in the center. Try to work warm not hot for even more control. I found that using 2mm clear stringers for encasing works best for me.
Hope that helps.
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2012-04-29, 3:56pm
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Lover of all things color
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The little black dot sounds like a great idea. I'll have to try that tomorrow.
Thanks,
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2012-04-29, 6:13pm
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Senior Member
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Hi everyone! I made a couple more this evening, one a little better and then I tried to encase the other and add some vine Smudged up the flowerss a bit, but we'll see--I'll have them here tomorrow as they're in the kiln right now
Duane
PS. Cindy, thanks! Thats the technique that I'm having problems with
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2012-04-29, 9:21pm
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...displaced ocean lover
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I think some of us are just inclined to make plunged flowers...
...and some of us are more inclined to drink and swear.
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2012-05-02, 11:04pm
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Hole Challenged
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I used to have trouble until I slowed down when melting the dots. Now I add the dots, make sure they are where I want them, splash them with heat for a count of 4 then take them out and let them cool without touching them. I keep up the 4 count/ let cool until they are melted in. I think I was letting the base heat up too much before and by the time the dots melted in they were distorted because all the glass was loose and moving. Does that make sense?
Then again, I use BE so I'm not sure this timing would work with 104. I just know it made a big difference in the quality of my florals.
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2012-05-05, 10:50am
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apt to wander....
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Melodie thanks for sharing, I'm going to try that as soon as I can get out to the garage. i still have heat control issues, but counting myself in and out sounds like it might help me at least be consistant!!
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2012-05-05, 12:47pm
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Back to 👊 1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo Blaty
I think some of us are just inclined to make plunged flowers...
...and some of us are more inclined to drink and swear.
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Perfect!
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2012-05-14, 11:53am
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Jacqueline Parkes
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Join Date: Nov 04, 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Phew, I finally found this thread! Encased florals is the reason I joined the lampwork addiction. I struggled for a long time until I move to using Bullseye glass. Then I made them for awhile and got bored. Anyways, I was always stumped why I could not make nice florals with 104 glasses.
I was minding my own business today, creating some tree beads. Then suddenly I was making encased florals with 104. I have no idea why as I have not made them in eons! But guess what??? I am having success! I am not sure why. Maybe because I have more glass experience now..............or.................and this is why I started this post. Maybe these few tips will help someone else.
1. First of all, please turn down your torch. Wayyyyyyyyy down. My flame was about 1/4 of an inch. The bead is worked in a gentle manner.
2. Instead of using 2mm purchased Effetre white stringers for the base of the flowers, today I used CIM 1mm purchased Peace stringers. Could this have been the difference? Maybe because my white dots are smaller or Peace is a stiffer glass?
3. Pull transparent stringers for the tops of the flowers. I pulled 1mm stringers of transparent orange. This may have been the difference as well as I use to use full rods of transparents. Maybe I am having success now because I am using less glass to create the petals, not sure.........
4. With a full rod of opaque glass, create a tiny barrel which I call one layer deep. Basically just wind the glass on the left side and continue to wind until you end up on the right side and pull off. Heat and marver gently into a barrel. This footprint will dictate how wide your bead will be, hole to hole. This first step will be the first deciding factor in the shape of your bead. The bead will be roundish if you do not add too many layers. If you tend to add many layers, the bead will end up being a very large donut shaped bead.
5. I encased with Effetre pale aqua instead of clear.
I have to leave the house for a bit so I will write more later. Here is one pic. This was just the test bead . The others are cooking. I hope they turn out.
.
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2012-05-14, 12:11pm
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~ a.k.a. Sharlee22 ~
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Lovely bead!!
Thanks for the tips! I always had trouble with encased floral!
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2012-05-14, 4:52pm
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Senior Member
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My problem is after adding all those layers I've got a humongous bead. I think I need to try using only stringers and think tiny tiny...
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2012-05-14, 4:55pm
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Jacqueline Parkes
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Yes that is common when you are first learning these types of beads. Skinny layers....I sometimes do create the first layer with a 2mm stringer but I find the full rod is easier now.
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2012-05-14, 5:38pm
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Jacqueline Parkes
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Here is the stash from today. I know what I will do differently tomorrow.
So continuing what I was saying earlier. Each time I add another layer, I marver the bead back into the small barrel shape. I never did this before so I wonder if this too is making the difference, no idea.
So after you have your tiny barrel in opaque glass, you encase it with a full rod or stringer if you prefer, of pale aqua. I cannot tell the difference in these beads compared to encasing in clear which is often a headache.
After encasing, marver back into barrel. The more you can keep your bead evenly shaped on the mandrel before the final encasing , the better. You will have a much easier time getting a nice result at the end if you continue to marver as you go along.
Then I add the vine cane, melt gently in , marver again. Then I add five white dots with the 1mm peace stringer. I didnt do anything special in how I melted them in. It takes very little heat to do this. Then I added the transparent glass, melt in again..........then I add three white dots on top of the other petals, inbetween the five. Add the transparent, melt in..........spot heat and poke the centers. This is all of course being down behind the flame and flashing the bead in and out of the flame to keep warm. Then I fully encase with pale aqua starting on the left side of the bead and ending on the right. I add extra pale aqua to both ends and down the middle. I take a good look at the bead and add extra glass where I feel is needed to even out the shape. Then slowly but surely melt down the encasing layer. You never want your bead to become fully heated through. It is not nessasary and will only cause you issues with encased florals. Add surface decoration etc etc. I hope this helped someone out there.
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2012-05-15, 1:15am
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Happy Inner Dragon
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OMG Jacqueline! Love those 'double' petals! Is that from flower cane? Awesome! Thanks for the marvering tip, too - I'd never been game to do that.
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2012-05-15, 5:28am
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Jacqueline Parkes
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Thank you Essie, they were really just quick efforts but I am pleased so today I will try to give more attention to detail and color choices etc. Yupp, floral cane! I love how I got the wispy look with them. I was just grabbing everything off my table as I was torching.
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2012-05-15, 9:08am
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Jacqueline Parkes
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For those who are reading, I tried them again today. I made 7 florals and instead of using the cim peace stringer, I went back to effetre white stringer and I still had good results.
I believe I was working too hot about two years ago. I worked the beads today in a very low flame. pictures pending!
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2012-05-15, 9:39am
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one day at a time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Passovoy
I've never had much trouble with them.
1. 3-5 dots of white in a circle, melt them in.
2. Dot a transparent color over them, melt those in.
3. Spot-heat the circle until the dots slump together, then plunge a pick right into the point where the dots converge.
4. Let cool a little, then put a dot of transparent or clear over the hole and gently melt in, so that a tiny bubble forms.
Encase if you want, but it isn't necessary. You can also use a bit of stamen cane pulled into a stringer to do the plunging; just blow gently on the bead to cool the stringer enough to snap it off at the surface and then drop a dot of clear over it.
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This is how I did it, but I've made just a few about 8 years ago, and none since then. I was using the HH to make these, and they are pretty small. Like around 13-14mm. I guess I stopped the ppp because I got too busy with ebay, and later it was my shop and made to order work. Those are my excuses.
Don't give up, Duane! In another month or so, I will have time to try them again.
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2012-05-15, 9:45am
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one day at a time
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Join Date: Jun 27, 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemsinbloom
For those who are reading, I tried them again today. I made 7 florals and instead of using the cim peace stringer, I went back to effetre white stringer and I still had good results.
I believe I was working too hot about two years ago. I worked the beads today in a very low flame. pictures pending!
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Before I even start down that path again, I'll need the tutorial lessons from you! They have been on my "needs" list for a while.
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