newbie to the board

gmarv · #1 2010-10-22, 4:18pm

hi one and all
i have worked in glass all my adult life but always in the scientific/semi conductor end. i am starting in the art glass .my question is how did you decide what you made was good enough to sell.my wife says my things are good enough but all i see is the flaws.so i would liketo know how ya,ll got past seeing the imperfect or does the flaws get easier to take.

marvin

Bakerman44 · #2 2010-10-22, 4:27pm

good question. i'm kind of at that point myself. Here's what i've come up with thus far. I'm going to sell my flawless items at regular retail price (like a flower implosion pendant for $35). If there is a bubble or punti mark not melted in or whatever (that's not to say that some of these "flaws" truly show that the piece is hand made and enhance the piece), i'm going to sell at a discount, depending on the flaw. for instance, 25% off for a "odds" or "seconds" type of piece. if it didn't come out the way i intended, it shouldn't be sold at full retail. and the really really really perfect stuff, is for my own collection

i hope this helps and i hope you can find what you're looking for!

gmarv · #3 2010-10-22, 4:40pm

hi bakerman 44

it does help, all feed back can,t hurt but help. appreciate your response.

gmkcpa · #4 2010-10-22, 5:12pm

There are many threads here on this very topic. I started one that is further down on this page about selling a marble with an air bubble in it. All of the comments were very helpful to me in figuring out an answer. Cosmo's story of his first sale in that thread is excellent.

Rose · #5 2010-10-22, 5:19pm

I would suggest looking at what other sellers are selling and the quality for the price. Sometimes we are way too hard on ourselves. Get a feel for the market and then jump in where you feel comfortable.

I would also point out that in this economy, my experience is that sales are pretty flat. It will be harder starting out right now, but if you understand that and have quality goods you will find your way.

There is also a learning curve with figuring out how to photograph, list etc.

Bakerman44 · #6 2010-10-22, 10:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

There is also a learning curve with figuring out how to photograph, list etc.

Photography has been a month in the making...to get good lighting for my cheapo digital camera. but i just got a florescent desk like and some pieces of colored felt for a background. It simulates day light and the felt is a nice solid background.

but i built my own light box and had all kinds of fancy diffusers and lighting rigs and wiring for it...all a waste! i spent about 100 bucks for no reason at all. my desk light was 20 bucks and the felt pieces were 30 cents a piece.

alb6094 · #7 2010-10-22, 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rose

I would suggest looking at what other sellers are selling and the quality for the price. Sometimes we are way too hard on ourselves. Get a feel for the market and then jump in where you feel comfortable.

I would also point out that in this economy, my experience is that sales are pretty flat. It will be harder starting out right now, but if you understand that and have quality goods you will find your way.

There is also a learning curve with figuring out how to photograph, list etc.

Which is, IMHO, not fun at all.

Descriptions, and *names* for goodness sakes. I'm thinking 'Frit Bead - series A #1, series A #2.....' lol. or just call them what they are, ie, 'The What Can I Do To This Glass bead'

I'm fighting my way through all this right now too. I really didn't think mine would sell then a friend convinced me to come and do a house party with her and people paid money for my beads.

Trust me, what you cringe over non-glassworkers don't see. They were acting like they hit the jackpot. I was mentally shaking my head in disbelief.

I was so nervous on the drive over there I almost threw up. I have serious issues with 'I'm not good enough'. Chances are if your wife thinks you're ready then you are. I doubt she would steer you wrong.

Rose · #8 2010-10-23, 4:28am

Astrid, I Totally understand what you are saying, lol! You will learn to use Google to conjure up names and your imagination will grow leaps and bounds. I used to hate finding names!!! Now it comes pretty easily.

Mr. Smiley · #9 2010-10-23, 5:55am

I think there are buyers for every level of work... if there weren't, i wouldn't have made it to where I am today... and I'll look back 10 years from now and be just as thankful for my buyers today... If the pieces are annealed and structurally sound, go for it... if we all waited for us to "arrive" before we sold anything, this would be an much much smaller community.

gmarv · #10 2010-10-23, 12:34pm

appreciate ya,ll taking the time to reply to my ???
marv

e. mort · #11 2010-10-23, 5:00pm

One thing to consider. When I started out, I underpriced my work, and then later increased my prices as I got better, and after I realized how expensive producing glass art for a living is. The problem was that my customers had become used to the lower price, and so I had a lof of people asking "why are they more now?" So, once you figure out a good price that you can afford to sell your stuff for, only sell your best stuff at that price. If you want to clear out your seconds, put them out clearly defined as seconds. Some people love to dig through a box of seconds so they will eventually sell as well.

Bakerman44 · #12 2010-10-25, 7:31am

I just opened my etsy shop. check out my link for the "second quality" i discounted them 25%. i felt that was a fair balance of savings benefit to the consumer while still getting some more monies in my pocket!

J.Meader · #13 2010-10-25, 11:09am

Marvin I too have found that the old saying that one mans trash is anothers treasure is sooo true when it comes to selling glass. As the artist we only see what went wrong and that the piece is not what we envisioned. I have often put a higher price on piece that I think is horrible (but structurally sound of course) and watched it be the first one to go

Don't forget to make pieces for yourself as well, I bought a china hutch last year and have had more fun just creating pieces for the hutch. It is very liberating to just create something without a care as to whether or not someone else will like it.

Mr. Smiley · #14 2010-10-27, 4:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bakerman44

I just opened my etsy shop. check out my link for the "second quality" i discounted them 25%. i felt that was a fair balance of savings benefit to the consumer while still getting some more monies in my pocket!

I adjusted the white balance in one of your pics... give me a call and I'll help you with it...

ginkgoglass · #15 2010-10-27, 5:12am

You've gotten some really great advice here.

If you've worked in scientific glass, you are used to having items near "perfect."
With something more creative and not built to specifications, there will be surprises (some good some not so good), especially in the beginning. There is a beauty in handmade because it does have the mark of a human hand on it. It's not perfect the way a machine would create it, but even more lovely because someone put their creative energy into making it.

I've had a neighbor dig through my trash bowl and ask me in horror "You're not selling these?" I love them!"
OMG they were horrible! I traded her those pieces for dog sitting while I was out of town. It's amazing sometimes how the ugliest thing in my eyes will be the first to sell.

Just get out there and sell things as long as they are sound structurally and annealed well. If people like them, they will buy them.

Do a show. There is nothing like having to produce 100 of something to get really good at making them.

Later on, you may look back and realize you are much better, but there is no reason in my mind to hesitate doing it except for fear or feeling not good enough. I have that too so I understand it very well.

Bakerman44 · #16 2010-10-27, 8:38am

ohh purty Brent. I figured it was dark because i keep my monitor dimmed a bit. I'll see if i can't figure it out first, then ill call you. Tanks!

gmarv · #17 2010-10-27, 3:18pm

i think the fact that i don,t have a print to work off of and tolerances to keep has been kind of a shock to the ole system. then doing what i want instead fo what is ask of me has been a ajustment not bad mind you just new for a old glassblower. i have appreciated all the responses to my query.
marvin

Mr. Meker · #18 2010-10-27, 10:09pm

I have a device that I want to make. Do you have any experience with Housekeeper seals in borosilicate glass? I need to seal 2 electrodes through 35mm heavy wall tubing.

gmarv · #19 2010-10-28, 5:00am

i have some experience in glass to metal seals, what kind of metal do you have to seal through the boro.

Mr. Meker · #20 2010-10-28, 9:11pm

They have to have platinum tips, but I was thinking copper for the rest of it.

gmarv · #21 2010-10-29, 5:06am

i use to make some chambers using platinum wire we would rap a small amount of cobalt around it making a bead then sealing the cobalt to the boro tube. this was apretty good seal under vacuum. copper is different ,expansion is different. you have to use a certain size copper i can,t remember off the top of my head the sizes that will work i think the vacuum seal is not as good . if you can,t use platinum let me know and i,ll try to find my info on copper.also some different metals will work but there is always some kind of prep work to do.
marvin

Mr. Meker · #22 2010-10-30, 6:46pm

I could use platinum for all of it, but it is so damn expensive. This is going to be a gift, so I want to keep it cheap. I guess I could platinum or gold plate the copper.

gmarv · #23 2010-10-31, 5:53am

my info. says to use copper you need to flatten the wire to .002 of an inch then make a sleeve of the same glass just bigger than the copper wire slide the wire through .then heat just the glass and press with pliers or tweezers. for the seal. then just seal the sleeve through your piece. my suggestion is to just try the copper to a sleeve using the technique.[housekeeper seal described above] just try to get as close to the measurements as you can. it ain,t as hard as they make it sound. a couple practice trys and maybe you will get it.
marvin

p.s. platinum is just so damn easy to do but expensive i know. hope this helps

scoutycat · #24 2010-11-09, 11:45am

Back to the selling thing - often our own judgement is clouded by what we intended to do vs what we got, which may be attractive to someone who isn't as attached to the idea of a specific effect. I typically have 2 lines - a 'signature' line, which literally has my signature on it and consists of stuff that I'm more or less pleased with; my 'regular' line, which doesn't have my signature on it and is either less complicated bread & butter kind of stuff or stuff that didn't turn out as well as I hoped but has no major issues. I sometimes put out seconds as well, which are structurally sound but have issues, ie. blowouts, bad bubbles, chipped or otherwise crappy ends, wonkiness etc. Also, I try to give myself a few weeks between producing an object and pricing it. The time seems to fuzz the perfectionism a bit, and allow me to be a bit more objective and not as harsh.

nevadaglass · #25 2010-11-09, 1:02pm

Great topic btw Gmarv!

I still see flaws in my work after 7 years of working with glass. Mostly that comes from us as artists striving for perfection.

When selling my work, I use the "Waterford Crystal" mentality but that's my personal preference. They do not offer discounts on seconds or reduced prices on lower quality items. It either passes quality control or it doesnt. If it doesnt pass, then I either keep it for myself, if it serves some functional purpose, or I throw it in the scrap pile for re-use on something else. Of course family members received alot of gifts along the way if they werent too flawed but not considered sellable - LOL. I decided to follow their rules of quality control after visiting Waterford twice in Ireland. Their perspectives on quality control made sense to me.

It serves 2 purposes...

The first is your prices become consistent. You dont have higher quality pieces being compared to lower quality pieces which can devalue your high quality items. Additionally people associate your work as a high quality product. The second is I wont have to turn over in my grave 100 years from now when I find out that horrific plate I made is still floating around and deemed some priceless treasure!!!

On every new series of items I have ever created, whether it be a plate, bowl, marble or scultpural piece. I have always kept my very first. The first plate I ever fused is in my mind the ugliest thing ever created and I still have it in the studio. My first marble is even worse - its not even completely round and the clear glass is dark smoke grey!!

When I look at that first plate and look at my current plates and bowls, then I know I truly have advanced as a glass artist. My last marble compared to the first left a smile on my face. Huh, I actually improved!!

I still get people who want to buy them because they think they are the coolest thing they have ever seen and I always tell them they are not for sale.

On the plate, the glass is burnt, it has air bubbles in it, gaps where it didnt slump in the mold correctly , but I have had at least 15 different people tell me it looks like a piece of pottery and they think its cool. I keep it as a reminder of what not to do and how far I have come

The biggest point here is that now I have boundaries that seem to work pretty well of what I deem as sellable versus what is not. That opinion also changes over time. There are many who actually want items with a bubble in it or a warble in it, etc, because to them it lets them know it was created by a real person rather than stamped out of a hot press, machine or production line ( or so I have been told) . Of course I still strive for perfection, but I'm a little less critical of myself these days. I mainly use other glass artists as my guideline....how does my work compare to what else is out there. That approach also provides me goals of things to work on in terms of improving skill sets. I certainly dont expect anyone else to live by the same rules I have set for myself. At the end of the day, it will ultimately come down to what you feel comfortable with. Customers and other artists will let you know if you are out of bounds /wink.

nevadaglass · #26 2010-11-09, 1:59pm

One more thought - I know , I know - I'm all words of wisdom today....

Similar to E.mort, I started out in my local community with sales and made the first mistake of business. I priced my glass for my current local market.

I now have changed business tactics and priced comparable to the glass market. I havent seen that this tactic has paid off yet but the Fall season is always a very slow time for me and I am also not marketing like I should so time will tell.

gmarv · #27 2010-11-13, 7:33am

you guys & gals have been very kind and informative about your process on
judging your own work. it has helped me a lot. thanks.

marvin

TheSilicaForge · #28 2010-11-13, 1:50pm

oh Waterford Crystal, how I miss you. I hate the thought that when I go back to Ireland I won't be able to go to the factory. I had such a good time there and it was such a wonderful place. I really wanted thier big crystal grandfather clock too. Oh well.

nevadaglass · #29 2010-11-18, 2:30pm

All I can say is that they were closed for like 100 years in the 1800's before starting up again so I am hoping they reopen.

I guess Galway will have to take up the slack until then

After going twice myself, It was one of the biggest influences for me getting into glass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSilicaForge

oh Waterford Crystal, how I miss you. I hate the thought that when I go back to Ireland I won't be able to go to the factory. I had such a good time there and it was such a wonderful place. I really wanted thier big crystal grandfather clock too. Oh well.