mandrel Help!!!

Kristen · #1 2010-12-27, 2:09pm

losing my mind...searched threads..nothing helps..plz someone tell me what vendor sells 3/16 mandrels that do not stick..and yes I am heating the crap out of my mandrels...they do not look like mandrels I have had in the past..chalky, rusty crap...ruining all my pretty beads

jaci · #2 2010-12-27, 2:33pm

where did you get these mandrels? this is an odd situation..... Sounds like maybe they are not stainless, or they are the wrong kind. Usually it has to be something like 316l or 308 or something in that range.

ALSO what bead release are you using?

houptdavid · #3 2010-12-27, 3:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kristen

chalky, rusty crap

?????????????? Are you sure you didn't get some galvanized rod?????

Welding supply... 308/308L or 316/316L Stainless tig rod

Puddy Tat Glass · #4 2010-12-27, 3:55pm

I agree, sounds like they're not stainless. I've got 3/16 in stock if you're interested just PM me.

Kristen · #5 2010-12-27, 4:20pm

I can't remember if I got them at C&R or Wale, it was a while back, took a break for a bit from glass. I use fusion from Frantz..the release seems fine...these are definitely rusty. I really heat the mandrels till they are cherry red...I bought one of those expensive bead release things from Jim Moore..dosen't work with these...I use sand paper on them each time before I dip them...I'm at a lose

loribeads · #6 2010-12-27, 4:48pm

I've heard lots of people recommend the mandrels from Beadboxman.

houptdavid · #7 2010-12-27, 5:08pm

If you left them coated with bead release even stainless will rust!

jaci · #8 2010-12-27, 7:28pm

Try scrubbing them with warm soapy water and steel scrubby/steel wool. They may come back to life.

Puddy Tat Glass · #9 2010-12-27, 8:27pm

I was talking with my husband 'bout this and he was explaining to me that stainless steel really isn't "stainless" it's more like "stain resistant" because eventually it can rust...or, if it's exposed to certain chemicals or other metals. It also depends on the percentage of other metals that are in the stainless, a higher grade stainless wont rust as quickly as a lower grade. Maybe your bead release has something in it that's reacting with the stainless. Or if you live near the ocean and you're storing your stainless with other metals the salinity in the air can cause a reaction between the metals that would cause stainless to begin rusting. Some grades of stainless even have lead in them...I didn't know that till I started searching the internet about this.

Kristen · #10 2010-12-28, 3:26pm

Thanx everyone....I will try some steele wool and see if that works..if not will be buying new...out of curiosity...how long can you leave release on ?...before rust sets in

houptdavid · #11 2010-12-28, 4:38pm

That depends on what grade the mandrels are, and how humid the air is

PerfectDeb · #12 2010-12-28, 7:11pm

i've let 308 sit with bead release on it for months - it goes dirty looking but fine otherwise

when i had my mandrels sitting in a bucket of salt they rusted in a week - but i could burn it off fine

yes, yes, dont ask my why i was using salt, long story

Puddy Tat Glass · #13 2010-12-28, 10:46pm

I've got 308 and 304 mandrels and I've also had some coated for months...maybe two or three large ones that have set for over a year...with no rust. In fact I just used one of my big mandrels a couple of weeks ago that had been coated for nearly a year and it worked just fine, no sticking, no rust.

truegem · #14 2010-12-29, 5:46am

I have never seen mandrels like this! I have bought mandrels from many different places and they all look the same to me. Strange. Good luck, though. Hope it all works out. =)

Rose · #15 2010-12-29, 5:49am

I say just toss them and be done with it. I just went through 4 months of this, not knowing it was the mandrels. Spent a ton of money on bead release, thinking that was the problem. I bought a bunch from Sundance and life has been great ever since.

Fine Folly Glassworks · #16 2010-12-29, 7:56am

Would any of you please speak to variations in stainless mandrels (not junk mandrels) and Bead Release breaking easily?

Do different types of stainless hold the bead release differently?

Does my studio getting down in the 30's at night, and being warmed back up in the daytime impact dipped mandrels waiting to be used?

jaci · #17 2010-12-29, 11:04am

Kristina, I have not found there to be a big difference in the kind of steel used and the bead release sticking differently. I always clean my mandrels with steel wool/scrubby when I take the beads off. I think it makes a world of difference.

Bead releases all act differently, some I can not let stand more than a day, others work better if dipped the day before.. just depends. Also on that note, it is possible that the metal is expanding and contracting and somehow loosening the bead release off the mandrel. I don't know that it would be a significant difference though. You should experiment... Bring a few dipped mandrels into the house, and keep them warm and bring them out to your studio to use later. See if there is a difference.

Fine Folly Glassworks · #18 2010-12-29, 12:26pm

Thank you Jaci. So a light cleaning with steel wool reconditions the surface after cleaning? I sure will try that.

I am having a fairly steady problem with the bead release breaking, maybe 1 in 10. I use Sludge Plus. I will keep some in the house, and also will dip before use and flame dry to see the difference.

Thanks so much!

jaci · #19 2010-12-30, 7:31am

1 in 10 is not bad. I am using super blue sludge. Its so tuff that I have a hard time getting my beads off my mandrel!

works great though. I have a few crack here and there also, especially on the bigger sizes. I also find that I don't want to leave them too long, they work better if they are fresh dipped, and work really well if they are gently flame dried. You may want to to get some of the sludge plus, the blue stuff, and mix it. The blue has no graphite in it. I also find that this stuff tends to get thick fast, and want to stay thick. So you have to thin it out a little. I will work thick, but will not be as smooth. I have it so when it settles and separates, there is just less than 1/2 in of water on the top. This is the easiest way to explain it I guess. I also dip and shake. Dip then shake off the excess. I just whack it back and fourth against the sides of the jar. I hate drippies!!!! LOL

Jinx Garza · #20 2010-12-30, 9:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RetiredinCoquille

...eventually it can rust...or, if it's exposed to certain chemicals or other metals.

So true. I once left a bunch of bent mandrels in a jar next to an open container of Lime Away. The mandrels, and every metal surface within a 3 ft radius including the metal shelves on the shelf unit, rusted.

As long as we're recommending mandrels, I'd like to make a plug for my favorite source, Sacred Art Beads, Patricia Scoggins, calamitysclan on eBay:
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...=calamitysclan
Super quality and excellent customer service.

Jinx

Fine Folly Glassworks · #21 2010-12-30, 1:45pm

Thank you for the warnings and recommendations!

I have found that my Sludge Plus will dry rock hard in jar without ever being opened! I lost 2 jars that way. Now I set my jars in a pitcher of Distilled Water, and pull them out to use them. It has taken care of the problem.

I find that once I add water to thin Sludge Plus it weakens the holding power and more mandrels break or release. Do you all find that?

jaci · #22 2010-12-30, 2:13pm

I know that the jar is not air tight, but I have not had this happen to me Kristina. It can probably be reconstituted in a blender though.... I have not had any problems thinning it and having it crack either. The only time it starts cracking on me is if I have too much release on my mandrels. I have no luck double dipping either!!! It always cracks. As long as I shake off the excess they almost never break. Your water may be issue if you are thinning it. I dont remember the specifics, but adding hard/soft water may cause some brands to break down. I also had a mold issue with my FF smoth n tuff. I was told to dilute with vodka!! That way it would not mold. Great Idea! I used ameretto

cuz it smelled great! worked great! I think I used cherry vodka once too, that was cool! smelled YUM, and no mold. I have not had any issues using tap or bottled water to thin out my sludge.

Fine Folly Glassworks · #23 2010-12-30, 5:58pm

Using vodka and Amaretto to thin my bead release - that is quite an idea! My hubby WOULD call me a glass-a-holic then!

I use Distilled Water to thin, so maybe the lack of minerals in the water is upsetting the balance? Is that an excuse to use booze?

JenniferP · #24 2011-01-01, 7:02am

I think it has to do with the quality of the steel. I went to Home Depot and bought cheap 6 foot "steel" rods and cut them myself. They were 35 cents per 6 feet. I had to throw them all out because there was some kind of chemical reaction to the bead release and it crumbled off and also created awful air bubbles. The other thing I noticed is that these rods didn't darken when they were in the kiln...they stayed very light. They also rusted and were just very yucky. None of this happens with my "good" mandrels.

Beckah · #25 2011-01-01, 8:44am

In the past 6 weeks, I got 3/16" mandrels on Ebay from both Calamitysclan and Devardi. Devardi shipped super fast. They've been used extensively over the past few weeks and seem to be going strong.

I left Sludge dipped mandrels for over a year and they did fine in the flame and the beads came off super easy. I also reconstitute dried out Sludge all the time with distilled water with no problems. The only time I have trouble with Sludge is if it's too thick. The Art in the Round website has a good article on thinning bead release -- specifically Sludge.

Simply Lampwork · #26 2011-01-01, 9:48am

I agree with most. I find it is too costly to purchase mandrels. I buy ss wire rods from a local welding shop. I cut them myself. I did spend $45 dollars on a great wire cutter. It was really worth the money. It will cut the three smallest diameters with ease. The larger mandrels I buy as I really do not make that many at one time. Note the wire rods are stamped with the diameter on both ends, cut trim off these ends or will end up making a bead over one and have a wonderful plant stake. Your mandrels do wear out, I find that if I limit time I soak the finished bead in water and dry the mandrels with a towel that there is much less rust. All in all if you buy the wire rods and cut them your self you do not mind as much when they wear out.
I like Frantz bead release the best, it is super thin. I like to work on a small gauge so this keeps my goal of tiny bead holes. Less slop in the finished pendant or earrings.
Cheers and Happy New Year.

jaci · #27 2011-01-01, 12:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JenniferP

I think it has to do with the quality of the steel. I went to Home Depot and bought cheap 6 foot "steel" rods and cut them myself. They were 35 cents per 6 feet. I had to throw them all out because there was some kind of chemical reaction to the bead release and it crumbled off and also created awful air bubbles. The other thing I noticed is that these rods didn't darken when they were in the kiln...they stayed very light. They also rusted and were just very yucky. None of this happens with my "good" mandrels.

if you don clean them, and get the oils off, and rough them up a bit this will happen with any rods.
However, not using stainless, you will need to throw them out real soon anyways.

Simply Lampwork · #28 2011-01-01, 12:38pm

I burn off the oils by heating them to red hot in a flame prior to the first use.

Scout · #29 2011-01-01, 12:45pm

I put a couple of junky glass beads in the bottom of my release so when I shake it up, it agitates and mixes the release really well! Its what they use in spray paint, so I thought it would work in bead release, and it works great!