Wanting to do a tut, but not sure if I should

[Frogsongstudio]

Originally Posted by BeadBlossoms

And ah, yes..... putting yourself in the crosshairs. Been there, done that, swore I'd never do it again. A newbie gets schooled very quickly if one angers the bead gods. But, here goes for what it's worth. There are lots of similar tuts out there on the same style of bead. For instance, I don't see a great deal of difference in style between the beads in Deb's "Nebula" tutorial and Ann's new "Nuclear" tutorial she just posted, or in Kalera's "Seerless Dream Tale Beads" on her website. To me, they look like the same type of bead with different variations- glass and silver used in a special way, with different placement of the dots. But they all have a slightly different twist, and most likely came about it in different ways. Perhaps they used different styles, different techniques, different glass, who knows? They are all gorgeous - who cares? They all made money on their beads and tuts. I'd buy them all. Did they all research if it had ever been done before, and call each other to see if they minded if the other wrote a tutorial? Most likely, not.

I think everyone who writes a tut feels they can offer something - be it a "nuclear-nebula" bead, or a different style goddess bead. If people want to buy it they will, if it's something just re-hashed perhaps they won't. So, who's to say who can or cannot? And who decides if it is deemed "different enough" to justify the existance of another tutorial? Or post their idea of rules that should be followed to be considered appropriate?

And, sadly, many do percieve there is a "tutorial police" and a "copying police" out there right now. Most everyone is afraid to state their opinion at this point. There are countless posts of people getting creamed if they don't agree with certain opinoins. So, you learn fast, I'm afraid.

Hi Donna,

You make some good points although I did want to say that when I saw Anne's nucleus beads it didn't even cross my mind that they were anything like mine. And having bought the tutorial and read through it I can honestly say that they are totally different than the way I make my Nebula beads.

I just wanted to say that in case anyone who already bought my tutorial felt that Anne's Nucleus tutorial wouldn't teach them anything new. It will, trust me.

I've never seen Kalera's Seerless Dream Tale Beads. I looked on her website but couldn't find any so I can't comment on those. If I saw one I'd be able to tell if they were made like mine. I did see her Geode beads though that I'd never seen before and those are way cool!

As for the comment about people getting creamed simply for having a different opinion than certain other opinions, well, unfortunately, you are right about that and it's pretty sad.

[Kalera]

These:
http://www.beadwife.com/detail.tpl?ItemID=10137

They're probably a similar technique, but I won't know for sure until I buy Anne's tut.

People often come up with similar ways to use glass spontaneously... however, the final designs in which we use the techniques variy considerably!

Other beads in which I've used variations on the same technique:

http://www.beadwife.com/detail.tpl?ItemID=10625
http://www.beadwife.com/detail.tpl?ItemID=10644
http://www.beadwife.com/detail.tpl?ItemID=9870
http://www.beadwife.com/detail.tpl?ItemID=10484

You can see, there are a lot of different directions you can go in, even if it's all based on a particular "magic" combo. I am certain that Anne has things in her tut I wouldn't have thought of. And, oftentimes completely different approaches to using the glass yields similar results, so it's also possible that they're not the same technique, at all.

[BeadBlossoms]

Originally Posted by Moth

Umm...the author of the tutorial, that's who. And doing research to help one make that decision is part of being responsible, in my opinion.

I can't speak for any other tutorial writers...but yes, I did try to find out if there were any other tutorials out there like mine.

Jellyfish- none, not even in foreign languages. Canes- yes, but they covered different canes and methods than mine. Mushrooms- not that I could find. Fish- yes, Ofilia Cinta has a beautiful fish tutorial published, but mine was different enough for me to proceed, but notice I attached it to the mushrooms because I didn't think there would be a market for the fish alone. Birds- Shane Fero has a video out about his sculptural birds, but they aren't beads. I couldn't find any other bird tutorials. That doesn't mean they aren't out there...but I made a good effort looking.

Control yourself. This isn't hard.

~~Mary

Your last line proves my point - wow, never expected that!

A subject is brought up and others state their opinions. Beleive it or not, it's their right as much as yours. Someone disagrees, and you have to be nasty. This is exactly what I was talking about. You couldn't reply with your opinion without the last dig, or with respect. Maybe you should try to control yourself and respect others with opinions different from your own...........it isn't hard.

No one who posts deserves this because they diagree with your feelings on a subject. Everythings cool until you dare disagree. Unbelievable.

[sarah_hornik]

I think she was saying "control yourself" as in "control your own actions as a tut writer", not "control yourself and don't disagree with me".

[ekkc]

Originally Posted by sarah_hornik

I think she was saying "control yourself" as in "control your own actions as a tut writer", not "control yourself and don't disagree with me".

I agree.

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by ekkc

I agree.

Me too! Donna, I don't think there are any "nasty" intentions whatsoever in Mary's post - truly.

Please try and keep in mind that when we are communicating with words alone here - minus the voice inflections, facial expressions, etc. that can help to accent/clarify the articulated word and add appropriate "emotion" - it's often difficult to vocalize exactly what you mean on the first pass, which obviously can lead to misunderstandings from time to time.

I'm pretty confident that Sarah had Mary's "intent" properly clarified.

[midniteburner]

Originally Posted by Moth

Umm...the author of the tutorial, that's who. And doing research to help one make that decision is part of being responsible, in my opinion.

I can't speak for any other tutorial writers...but yes, I did try to find out if there were any other tutorials out there like mine.

Jellyfish- none, not even in foreign languages. Canes- yes, but they covered different canes and methods than mine. Mushrooms- not that I could find. Fish- yes, Ofilia Cinta has a beautiful fish tutorial published, but mine was different enough for me to proceed, but notice I attached it to the mushrooms because I didn't think there would be a market for the fish alone. Birds- Shane Fero has a video out about his sculptural birds, but they aren't beads. I couldn't find any other bird tutorials. That doesn't mean they aren't out there...but I made a good effort looking.

Control yourself. This isn't hard.

~~Mary

Mary has made an excellent point here! And people who don't do their homework seem to get into trouble.

Sara

[Moth]

Originally Posted by BeadBlossoms

Your last line proves my point - wow, never expected that!

A subject is brought up and others state their opinions. Beleive it or not, it's their right as much as yours. Someone disagrees, and you have to be nasty. This is exactly what I was talking about. You couldn't reply with your opinion without the last dig, or with respect. Maybe you should try to control yourself and respect others with opinions different from your own...........it isn't hard.

No one who posts deserves this because they diagree with your feelings on a subject. Everythings cool until you dare disagree. Unbelievable.

Well, obviously, Donna, you don't know me at all, nor have you read anything else I've posted in any of these godforsaken threads.

If you HAD, you would know what I was trying to say and not get your knickers in a twist.

If you HAD, you would know I'm not inflammatory in my posts. I don't jump on people for disagreeing with me. I don't slam people who have opinions.

If you HAD, you would not feel the need to jump down my throat for your own uninformed misunderstanding about WHO I am as a person, and how I treat other people.

Unbelievable is right.



OH, and just so you don't think I've come back and taken a bunch of stuff out of my post, the reason it was edited was to ADD the 'as a person, and how I treat other people' part. Without it, it sounded like I was saying something like, 'I don't think you know who you're dealing with here'...and that isn't what I meant. I didn't want to be misunderstood again, so I clarified.

[Moth]

That really sucks, Donna. I have done my best to be kind and considerate to everyone while discussing this issue. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

Thanks for the kick in the teeth, apparently it is exactly what I needed to be able to step away from these issues without feeling like I was bailing out in the middle.

You actually did me a favor.

~~Mary

[Shrimp]

From someone who has mixed opinions about tutorials, I say go for it. I thoroughly agree with Kalera regarding her advice of offering both the male and female torso techniques in one tut. I wish you a prosperous venture!

[SunDoorBeads]

Mary I cannot believe how low some people will sink I agree that no good deed goes unpunished- I am sorry you feel like "you need to bail" I think the majority feels you are very informed and respected in this community. I for one love all your "freebies" on your site and think that the time you spent reflects your love for this art. I quite agree that you need to do your homework to become an author. If you look at the research that writers do prior to publishing a book it is quite remarkable! Plus there is such a thing as plagerisim and I know that no one here wants to be accused of this that is why we make sure this isn't something that "has been done before". However, with the tut in question I feel that this may well be just another way to make a goddess or god. I have my own look to mine and am sure that I do things differently but choose not to write one for my own reasons. Bottom line if you know in your heart that yours are "unique" then publish your knowledge if this is your wish we all love to learn and I love seeing how others arrive at the same conclusion! Please do not be discouraged and Mary we love you and love your work!!! You are a great contibutor and artist!

[Shrimp]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

I posted this in the concept thread last night but think it would perhaps have been better in this thread.

I have been trying to keep out of most of these discussions about tutorials as the last few have, in truth, made me feel quite sick to my stomach.
My view for what its worth,

1. Anyone is entitled to write a tutorial about whatever they wish if it is their own work and to be payed for it. In other words they write how they make something even if it is close to something that someone else makes. What would be wrong is if they took paragraphs out of someone elses tutorial and used it as their own.
2. Anyone is entitled to buy whatever tutorial they want to. If they feel its too close to something that another artist has done - DON'T BUY IT. It your choice.
3. As soon as a thread degenerates into a slinging match that hurts other peoples feelings it should be stopped. It serves absolutely no use at all. No one is going to change anyone else's mind, that very seldom happens, and the truth is that if the people were face to face they probably would never dream of saying some of the things that they do on the faceless forum.
4. I think that the last debacle had done tremendous damage to the lampworking community and the community spirit that existed and hopefully if those threads are not allowed to continue as long as the last one did it will help towards slowly building up the community spirit again. This is not aimed at anyone but just a generalization of how I feel now. For many years I have told people about the wonderful generosity that has amazed me in the beading world. I am talking both about the sharing of knowledge and material things as well. I'm not sure that is something I would say today. I hope in the near future that will change again.
5. I was one of the people who once upon a time asked what I perceived to be an innocent question. Obviously I was wrong. I was well and truly flamed and the thread ran for many weeks. It was the last time I ever asked about anything.

I know that things are really tough right now all over the world and especially in the States but I hope it does'nt make us lose our humanity. For that would be a far greater loss than anything material could be.
A Happy New Year to you all and may it bring the things you really need and some of the things that you want.
Lynne Smith

Lynn...this post of yours should just become a sticky here at LE. I've done alot of pondering on my own opinions regarding tutorials lately. After a go-around with the PGBs here, I realized they were right. Your approach is a more subtle one and should be practiced by those who indulge in forum disruption. I hope that these people will follow your example in the future. Thank you for sharing a wise woman's opinion.

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by Aleta

Lynn...this post of yours should just become a sticky here at LE. I've done alot of pondering on my own opinions regarding tutorials lately. After a go-around with the PGBs here, I realized they were right. Your approach is a more subtle one and should be practiced by those who indulge in forum disruption. I hope that these people will follow your example in the future. Thank you for sharing a wise woman's opinion.

I agree!

[AKDesigns]

"Forum disruption"....

[Lynne Smith]

Thanks Aleta and Carmen.

If people could maybe just reread their posting before pushing the remit button maybe it would avoid some of the misunderstandings.
I admire Mary and her work tremendously but her last comment could very easily have been misconstrued. Rather write more than less to explain what one means. And because I have read and have seen a lot of Mary's work through the years I immediately thought to myself that she would'nt make a derogatory statement. But not everyone knows everyone else so sometimes things can be taken as they seem and not as they were meant.

Also the little sarcastic remarks and the smilies that follow really don't help the discussion.

Lynne S

[AKDesigns]

Happy New Year to you!

[Lynne Smith]

Why Amy??????

Aleta posts about forum disruptions and she gets a "forum disruption" with a laughing smilie after it from you.

I then post about people who make sarcastic remarks and put a smilie after them and what pops up. You again with the same laughing smilie and "A Happy New Year to you"

Now you can innocently say you were wishing me a Happy New Year. I don't think so and nor would a lot of other people. I am sure you probably don't even know who I am. I don't post that often and this past year have'nt even been posting very much in the showcase because of certain circumstances I have'nt been making very many beads. And after this post probably would'nt be posting that much again. I have no intentions of getting into a pissing contest with you. I'm not good at that anyway and I'm sure you would win.

You certainly have a right to voice your opinion but be nice. It really makes the world a much more comfortable place to live in.

Lynne S

[pam]

Honestly, Lynne - and this is just a suggestion and being said in a most serious and kind way - if you are so sensitive to what I consider to be indepth and sometimes heated discussions, to the point that they make you ill, then perhaps it might help you to stay away from those threads. As far as I know there have been only three threads that have gotten somewhat heated in recent weeks - four if you count the one about the spammer, but I don't - and that is such a small percentage of total threads posted daily on this forum that it should be easy to avoid them. No one should make themselves ill from simply reading a forum. You cannot control how others act on a forum and to try is just going to bring you more heartache.

Forums move at their own rate and are kind of like a house of cards that will come tumbling down at the slightest provocation and at other times will stay precariously balanced in defiance of gravity. There's been a little tumbling lately in a few places, but all in all I think it is a good thing to have frank, honest discussions over issues facing our community. We can't grow and mature with the happy face smiling down constantly. It just isn't possible. Issues have to be aired and discussed and I think LE is probably the best forum there is because it allows us that latitude. There are other forums around where every day is sunny and there are no storms, but they are not real life, as this one is, and they are not helping our art form and our community to mature.

Corri has done a wonderful, masterful job of keeping this forum real and I have never had more admiration for her than I do at this time with various people telling her how they want her to run her forum.

ETA: Both Mary and Amy, as far as I can tell from their posts, are really, really nice, intelligent people who have opinions that they feel free to express here, as they should. No one should try to tell others how or when to post, or what to say.
Most respectfully,

[ewdb]

First, i'd like to be clear about where i stand:
-i believe the only people who should be involved in the decision of whether or not to write a tut is the author (who will hopefully have done their research) and anyone the author decides to ask for advice.

-i believe the decision to buy a tut should be left to the buyers alone - i don't want anyone else sabotaging a tut unseen/unread. Only exception is if the author has blatantly plagiarized, that should come out pretty quickly - but would require solid proof before any accusations. If they've simply developed a similar technique on their own, then i'd like to see/buy the tut because maybe it answers questions or solves problems i had from another author's technique. There's always more than one way to accomplish a certain technique and i'd rather have a lot of choices rather than being limited to only one or two artist's visions, e.g. i have several lampworking books all of which overlap a lot on techniques but each has a slightly different take on it so are all of value.

And Pam, i would have to disagree with you here:

Originally Posted by pam

Honestly, Lynne - and this is just a suggestion and being said in a most serious and kind way - if you are so sensitive to what I consider to be indepth and sometimes heated discussions, to the point that they make you ill, then perhaps it might help you to stay away from those threads. As far as I know there have been only three threads that have gotten somewhat heated in recent weeks - four if you count the one about the spammer, but I don't - and that is such a small percentage of total threads posted daily on this forum that it should be easy to avoid them. No one should make themselves ill from simply reading a forum. You cannot control how others act on a forum and to try is just going to bring you more heartache.

ETA: Both Mary and Amy, as far as I can tell from their posts, are really, really nice, intelligent people who have opinions that they feel free to express here, as they should. No one should try to tell others how or when to post, or what to say. Most respectfully,

I agree with Lynne (and several others) for the most part and i do believe she does make a good point that if everyone made the effort to be a little nicer we would still have disagreements but probably wouldn't have any really ugly threads at all. I also think (as you say yourself) that everyone has the right to (politely) post their opinions in the theads as they feel and no one should tell them whether they should or not.

Hence suggesting Lynne "stay away from these threads" because she's "so sensitive" isn't really fair, is it?

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

If people could maybe just reread their posting before pushing the remit button maybe it would avoid some of the misunderstandings.
I admire Mary and her work tremendously but her last comment could very easily have been misconstrued. Rather write more than less to explain what one means. And because I have read and have seen a lot of Mary's work through the years I immediately thought to myself that she would'nt make a derogatory statement. But not everyone knows everyone else so sometimes things can be taken as they seem and not as they were meant.

Also the little sarcastic remarks and the smilies that follow really don't help the discussion.

Lynne S

I don't see where Lynne's posts says that Mary or Amy are not "really really nice people" in fact she defends Mary and mentions how she admires Mary.
All her post does is make a suggestion as yours does to her.......do I see a bit of "double standards" yet again??

[pam]

It's not a double standard, Carmen, as mine was a hopefully kind suggestion and meant in the very sincerest way. I sometimes think that if people would only do what makes them happy the world would be a better place. If you don't enjoy threads where people vociferously defend their opinons, then why go there? Why should she put herself in such health peril just to read a couple of threads when there are hundreds of others that could be read.

And honestly, your accusation of "double standards" is just that, a double standard. It's okay for someone you know or agree with to have an opinion, but not someone you don't agree with. So, who has the double standard?

And Lynne, I fail to see what is unfair about suggesting that someone who does something that makes them physically ill perhaps not do it. Should I then be suggesting that a number of other people who enjoy expressing opinions not do so because they may be making someone ill? I agree that it would be nice if discussions did not get into more personal attacks, but it would also perhaps be good if people would read posts the way they were meant to be read. I made my post to Lynne, and even stated that I was being sincere and kind so there would be no mistake. Instead you seem to take it as an insulting directive, which it was not.

[SunDoorBeads]

[quote=ewdb;2296829]First, i'd like to be clear about where i stand:
-i believe the only people who should be involved in the decision of whether or not to write a tut is the author (who will hopefully have done their research) and anyone the author decides to ask for advice.
To my understanding the author to be did ask us that's why she posted the question. Anytime you ask an opinion question or for advice be emotionally prepared to filter out negativity- which I believe was not Mary's purpose.-i believe the decision to buy a tut should be left to the buyers alone - i don't want anyone else sabotaging a tut unseen/unread. Only exception is if the author has blatantly plagiarized, that should come out pretty quickly - but would require solid proof before any accusations. If they've simply developed a similar technique on their own, then i'd like to see/buy the tut because maybe it answers questions or solves problems i had from another author's technique. There's always more than one way to accomplish a certain technique and i'd rather have a lot of choices rather than being limited to only one or two artist's visions, e.g. i have several lampworking books all of which overlap a lot on techniques but each has a slightly different take on it so are all of value.
If you read my post I make the same statement. However, doing your research as Mary first suggested as did I, is soooooo important put yourself in the shoes of someone who has posted a free tutorial for example, one you read 4 years ago, now you've been making this "bead" from that tut for a long time and one day ,while not remembering where that knowledge came from, you decide it is time to share this by writing a tutorial for sale well you end up selling and people love it not realizing that it was someone elses. Now you did not copy it word for word but you did sell something that was done as tutorial before and worse free! This is a prime example of doing your research had you, you would have "had a V8 moment" and said AHHH now that's where it came from and never have a thing to worry about- or you will be able to say that the way you have come do this is soooo different that you can publish yours with a whole heart! I think this is all Mary and Myself, and other's want the Author to Be to take into consideration! It's this work that make the tutorials so valuable in my opinion.

[SunDoorBeads]

I also think Amy just wanted to add some comic relief to this discussion- no harm so why nit pick?
Lynne, If I were you I would not be afraid to ask a question, I have been flamed but guess what I am a big girl who knows that some people have nothing better to do. I have to accept that I will never please everyone and that some people will not understand and support my way of thinking. It does not bring me down and I certainly don't let them win!

[SunDoorBeads]

Amen Pam!!!!!!

[Carmen Isaacs]

Originally Posted by pam

It's not a double standard, Carmen, as mine was a hopefully kind suggestion and meant in the very sincerest way. I sometimes think that if people would only do what makes them happy the world would be a better place. If you don't enjoy threads where people vociferously defend their opinons, then why go there? Why should she put herself in such health peril just to read a couple of threads when there are hundreds of others that could be read.

I don't see anything in my post concerning this aspect of Lynne's or your post.

Originally Posted by pam

ETA: Both Mary and Amy, as far as I can tell from their posts, are really, really nice, intelligent people who have opinions that they feel free to express here, as they should. No one should try to tell others how or when to post, or what to say.
Most respectfully,

This is the post that I had an issue with. I simply stated that Lynne had not said anything bad about Mary or Amy. I have no issue with people disagreeing with each other but as you say "if people would read posts the way they were meant to be read" and I didn't think you had read her post as it was meant to me read. This is my opinion which I expressed.
The double standard issue (which was probably the wrong phrase to use) came in with your being "allowed" to make a "kind" suggestion to Lynne but when Lynne made a "kind" suggestion to Mary you jumped in with your above post. I just question why yours would be a kind suggestion and hers not?
I am also surprised my your comment about "knowing somebody" which has nothing to do with my post. How do you know who I know and why are my comments related to who I know? South Africa is a big place with +- 40 million people and strange to relate we don't all "know" each other.

[pam]

Sorry, Carmen, I didn't even notice you and Lynne were both from South Africa. I don't usually do research on people before I respond to a post. I usually take what they have written for honest and have no reason to look past that. Perhaps I should. And I think I said, if you had read carefully, "for someone you know or agree with". As I said, I had no idea you were both from South Africa and even if I had I would never have made the determination that you both know each other. Actually, I know more glass beadmakers from around the world than I do in the South Florida area I live in.

The ETA was added when I read Lynne's response to the Happy New Year salutation from Amy and recalled the response earlier where someone had misunderstood Mary.

[AKDesigns]

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

Also the little sarcastic remarks and the smilies that follow really don't help the discussion.

Lynne S

Originally Posted by Lynne Smith

Why Amy??????

Aleta posts about forum disruptions and she gets a "forum disruption" with a laughing smilie after it from you.

I then post about people who make sarcastic remarks and put a smilie after them and what pops up. You again with the same laughing smilie and "A Happy New Year to you"

Now you can innocently say you were wishing me a Happy New Year. I don't think so and nor would a lot of other people. I am sure you probably don't even know who I am. I don't post that often and this past year have'nt even been posting very much in the showcase because of certain circumstances I have'nt been making very many beads. And after this post probably would'nt be posting that much again. I have no intentions of getting into a pissing contest with you. I'm not good at that anyway and I'm sure you would win.

You certainly have a right to voice your opinion but be nice. It really makes the world a much more comfortable place to live in.

Lynne S

Oh Lynne, why so serious? I thought Aleta's "forum disruption" comment was hilarious and it made me laugh out loud. I posted showing that. Sometimes I post just to entertain myself but it certainly wasn't me being mean. And telling me to "be nice", well ....I'll just leave that one alone. I'm gonna "be nice" right now! I'm pretty sick of the drama here lately and some people just won't let it go. These are old arguments being aired over and over. Maybe that's what happens when a thread gets deleted before it's time. So instead, I've been trying to find the humor in all this. And if you look at it through different eyes it is kinda funny.

And thank you Pam and Michelle!

[midniteburner]

Sometimes reading a few posts of a little humor gives people a little break and time to calm down. And yes, a few have gotten out of hand.

I do apologize for my part in the distractions.

I do feel that it would be easy for people to get all excited and jump into making a tutorial before thinking things through and doing homework first.

Sara

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by Pyro Beads

I have been wanting to do a tut on my god and goddess beads, but after reading some of the comments in here I have to admid that I am afraid to. How I learned to do these beads I am not sure. I just wanted to make life-like god and goddess beads for a bike-ralley I was doing. Did I see a tut on these??? I know there are some out there and I have looked at them but they look nothing like mine.... so does that mean that I came up with them myself or did I steal some one's design or idea??? How do I find out??? If I make mine to look totally different, but use some of the same steps to create these does that mean I'm stealing from them?

As far as goddess beads go if you do a search on them you will find hundreds in different styles, ect..... they have been around for years......

any help would be greatly appreciated.

I realize that many digressions have occurred - and that they are worthy of addressing to clarify everyone's feelings and to clear the air and keep the flow, but I also think that bringing Pyro's original question/inquiry back to the forefront is probably a good idea to help us get back on track. Pyro has asked us for our honest input, advice and feedback, and after thinking about this for a while and given the specific subject matter, I think:

DO IT!!!

I love the suggestion that the tutorial be presented as a "Male Torso Tutorial" with an addition of a "alternative" possibility to create a "Female Torso" as a secondary focus within the original tutorial!!!

Pyro: I'm so proud of you for putting this question out and allowing it to air freely and for having the forethought and consideration of the community and all those who came before you to inquire in advance of publishing. I know there have been pros and cons posted, but I think the general consensus is that you should proceed with it - and I think that many lampworkers will be excited to see if published.

Wishing you the best of luck!

[BeadBlossoms]

Wow. I am truly stunned. I'm very sorry for the misunderstanding. As someone pointed out it's very difficult to judge the tone of someone's statements in print. I felt very stung and upset by Moth's response to my post. I rarely post because of all the animosity on a lot of these threads. I apologize if I took it the wrong way. And no, I don't know you Moth. But you don't know me either. So, for my mistake you slammed me in posts that cut to the quick. My mistake was that grave that I get a public flogging? Twice? But, as you pointed out, we don't know each other, you don't know who I am. Would you have had the same response if someone you knew made the same response? Probably not. Usually I see "oh, you took it the wrong way!" or "I didn't mean it like you took it" when it's between the "well knowns". So there is a double standard whether the artists choose to believe it or not- if you are not one of the "popular" or well established people on this list you get exactly what was given out to me on my response. And by the way? It's easy to say afterwards how you meant a comment-there's no way of knowing how it was intended when it was first written. But you sure got your knickers in a twist when I "misunderstood", huh? And came out with guns ablazing to school me in what happpens when a "nobody" dares to say something to a "somebody".

And, FYI, I'll tell you who I am. I'm a 49 year women married to the love of my life for 25 years, and mother of two great kids. I was laid off from my dream job in July, and decided to take up lampworking to keep me busy. I've adored and bought so many of these great beads, I wanted to know more about it. It was suggested to me to join this group a few months ago, as a way of learning and absorbing the talent of great artists who I am in awe of.

Instead, it has taken my excitement and joy of lampworking away. I am just going to melt glass and learn on my own. I will no longer post or probably even lurk much anymore. I thought this list would be fun, but it most definitely is not.

I stayed away from reading this post for a few days because I was so upset. I wish I had stayed away all together. I can't even describe how devestated I feel after reading all of the posts after mine - I'm depressed, physically ill, and I am crying as I write. I'm very sorry I took it the wrong way, and sorry you felt I deserved the replying posts.