Thoughts on a noob's setup plans?

[jamesrich]

Hi everyone. I am very new to lampworking and have done work on a Minor off of liquid oxygen on and off for about a year. I've only worked boro, and would like to work big projects and small as well. I am looking into setting up a studio in the basement of my raised-ranch home. I really would prefer to avoid tanked/ liquid oxygen due to costs, and have been looking into concentrators, with mixed reviews on many. Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a good brand and good vendor, as well as any experience with cons or homefil? i have heard a bethlehem bravo can run on cons and still make big work. also was considering a paragon f-130 so i can grow into it. any and all advice is appreciated. thx

[snoopdog6502]

I run a mirage on an 8 liter and (3) 5 liter machines(23lpm). My Phanton runs great on 18lpm.
All you read about GTT has to have more PSI pressure is not true, they run on oxycons like a dream.

Homefils are garbage, they will break and be down more then up.

When you get over 20 LMP of oxycons you can get a Small 1/8hp Gast compressor and make a high volume type system 10 times faster then the homefil for the same price.

Get oxycons from Dave, great machines from a great guy.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/member.php?u=33838

The bravo is OK kind of a weak torch,the center fire is not sharp or powerful so it makes the torch very nominal. Not worth $1,000.00
For $200 more a Phantom is a much better torch. worth every penny.

I got a snub nose Mirage in April and it gets it on. its what Id say is the perfect torch. I can get a tiny sharp flame to a nice big bushy flame.
$1,725.00 is a lot of money on a torch but totally worth it.
I will send it in and get the compressed air upgrade.

I have a basement studio, run a 1,600cfm attic fan in the window with the automatic louvers with a window 12 feet behind me as a passive intake.
Iv tapped my natural gas and run a national 3A as a hand torch.
I make all my oxygen, its key to being able to afford the nice torches,lots of glass and nice tools.

I want an F130, now I have the Mirage I need a bigger kiln.

Good luck and if you want to see videos of torches running or anything shop related id be happy to make a video .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmfymeMiJyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScW-GnlMdWM

[jamesrich]

Originally Posted by snoopdog6502

I run a mirage on an 8 liter and (3) 5 liter machines(23lpm). My Phanton runs great on 18lpm.
All you read about GTT has to have more PSI pressure is not true, they run on oxycons like a dream.

Homefils are garbage, they will break and be down more then up.

When you get over 20 LMP of oxycons you can get a Small 1/8hp Gast compressor and make a high volume type system 10 times faster then the homefil for the same price.

Get oxycons from Dave, great machines from a great guy.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/member.php?u=33838

The bravo is OK kind of a weak torch,the center fire is not sharp or powerful so it makes the torch very nominal. Not worth $1,000.00
For $200 more a Phantom is a much better torch. worth every penny.

I got a snub nose Mirage in April and it gets it on. its what Id say is the perfect torch. I can get a tiny sharp flame to a nice big bushy flame.
$1,725.00 is a lot of money on a torch but totally worth it.
I will send it in and get the compressed air upgrade.

I have a basement studio, run a 1,600cfm attic fan in the window with the automatic louvers with a window 12 feet behind me as a passive intake.
Iv tapped my natural gas and run a national 3A as a hand torch.
I make all my oxygen, its key to being able to afford the nice torches,lots of glass and nice tools.

I want an F130, now I have the Mirage I need a bigger kiln.

Good luck and if you want to see videos of torches running or anything shop related id be happy to make a video .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmfymeMiJyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScW-GnlMdWM

Thank you very much for the info. would you have any info on prices for buying enough generators to run a torch like the mirage or phantom? Ive read some bad forums about Oxygen unlimited and extreme Oxygen and just wanna make sure to go to the best supplier with the best product. and i think a video of your shop with any info you find important would be very helpful, and much appreciated. but take your time of course, dont rush anything. Also, would you know anything about the red max? It has the appeal of price but I dont want to get a bad torch lol. thx for everything

[snoopdog6502]

Well as far as the oxygen concentrators Dave is the man at available oxygen.
Some machines were recently tested for purity and its was in the 97% range. They realy have made them perform above average.

Also Invacare is a good brand if you can find 10 LPM machines.
I have 2 5lpm machines. one has 46,931 and one has 63,452 hours. thats 5.3 and 7.2 years run time.

The Redmax is a big ol brute of a torch and most bang for the buck but keeping it fed enough oxygen is a bit costy so it cost money in the long run. It is two torches so the small top fire run on oxycons and the big torch on tanks is commonly done.
The redmax is a fuel hog but great work is done every day on them.

A mirage or a redmax can be ran with (3) 8-10lpm machines. more is better.
My mirage on 24lpm is pretty hot so I dont have to run the 40 jets very much, the Lynx center fire does most of the work.

To get started I did not have funds to buy everything at once. Here is a short run down...

I spent $600 to get a GTT Bobcat, tanks, hoses and regulators to torch at a card table in my driveway.

2 months lather spend $540 for a 8LPM oxycon from Dave at Available oxygen.

A month later got a Paragon Caldera digital and enameling collar with the big bead door for $650

2 months later I got a new GTT Cheetah for $550.

With glass, gas,kiln,tools,bench,eyeware,ventilation and everything you will drop $3,000+ with no problem.

I funded my glass by stopping Drinking alcohol. No joke.
Best thing I ever did.

[bshelle]

Originally Posted by jamesrich

Thank you very much for the info. would you have any info on prices for buying enough generators to run a torch like the mirage or phantom? Ive read some bad forums about Oxygen unlimited and extreme Oxygen and just wanna make sure to go to the best supplier with the best product. and i think a video of your shop with any info you find important would be very helpful, and much appreciated. but take your time of course, dont rush anything. Also, would you know anything about the red max? It has the appeal of price but I dont want to get a bad torch lol. thx for everything

There's a forum on FB called Concentrated Lampworkers that can give you guidance on oxycons.
Unlimited Oxygen is out of business.
Extreme Oxygen gets very good reviews.
You can also check your local Craigslist for oxycons people are trying to get rid of.
One thing to remember when torch hunting; if you get a torch with four inlets or "studs" you can run it on different lines - separate oxygen for an inner fire than the outer fire.
Whatever you do, if it's a question of "should I buy the bigger thing or not" just buy it. You'll want to upgrade.

[dusty]

If you go with concentrators, Available/Oxygen is where to get the cons - Dave has taken great care of his customers, myself included.

Unless I'm just running a single-stage torch (or a single-stage torch and a separate hand-torch), I don't like running directly off of concentrators, because changing the outer fire tends to change the inner fire. For a dual stage torch or multiple stations, a "High Volume/Low Pressure" system is the way to go. We run a Carlisle Hellcat and a GTT Phantom at the same time with just two U/O 20psi 10lpm concentrators (though YMMV, since we mostly run the inner fires). I made a DIY HVLP system with those, a Gast m100x compressor, and a 30 gallon stainless steel tank.

Sometimes I wish I had liquid, though. Nothing like knowing for sure that you're getting 99.9% pure oxygen with virtually unlimited flow. I don't have any problems with my system, but even running perfectly it's only 96% pure oxygen. Might not be a big deal, but knowing the difference between 90% and 96%, I still wonder what the difference between 96% and 99.9% is.

With liquid, you've got to deal with oxygen supplier, you might sometimes get bad liquid tanks (wastes oxygen), and the cost over time is higher. With concentrators, you've got to maintain your machines, replace them when necessary, build and maintain a whole system, deal with the noise, check purity now and then (which involves owning a fairly expensive O2 purity tester), etc. I'd have to try liquid to be convinced that concentrators are a better choice - but it could come down to how much money you're making with your glass.

For torches, I like them all, but if you're running liquid, you definitely ought to have something bigger than a Minor.

[jamesrich]

thank you all for the input. i will definitely be checking into the oxy companies. would anybody know any gas suppliers that would deliver liquid oxy to a residence in the algonquin illinois area? or how to convince one to do it? lol