Flame coming out of wrong spot

ilovetomp · #1 2010-10-17, 12:39pm

I just set up my National 8 m with the S7 tip. My concentrator was going good and my propane was going great. I checked with the bubbles to see if there was any leak with the propane and the oxygen. No bubbles.

I have the most incredible flame going on when all of a sudden the flame continued beautifull from the torch tip and then where the hose connects to the torch the flame was coming there, also.

So, I did not have any leaks detected with the bubbles, but I am assuming there was a leak. The flame came from the propane part of of the torch, not the oxygen. Makes complete sense.

So, should I wrap the torch connector with the plumbers tape. I have always heard not to, but, I am just slightly confused and very fortunate.

Outside of the bubble procedure to check for leaks, is there another way to handle this matter.

Reponses are greatly appreciated.

kbinkster · #2 2010-10-17, 12:50pm

Quote:

I just set up my National 8 m with the S7 tip. My concentrator was going good and my propane was going great. I checked with the bubbles to see if there was any leak with the propane and the oxygen. No bubbles.

I have the most incredible flame going on when all of a sudden the flame continued beautifull from the torch tip and then where the hose connects to the torch the flame was coming there, also.

So, I did not have any leaks detected with the bubbles, but I am assuming there was a leak. The flame came from the propane part of of the torch, not the oxygen. Makes complete sense.

So, should I wrap the torch connector with the plumbers tape. I have always heard not to, but, I am just slightly confused and very fortunate.

Outside of the bubble procedure to check for leaks, is there another way to handle this matter.

Reponses are greatly appreciated.

I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what it is you're saying.

When you say that you "checked with the bubbles," are you dunking the whole torch into a bucket of water, or are you spraying leak check solution or soapy water onto connections and fittings?

So, was everything going fine and then all of a sudden the flame started shooting out of the back of the torch? Was the propane valve open or closed when the flame happened?

It sounds like it could possibly be coming out of your valve body, since there's no leak at the connection between your hose and the torch inlet (stud).

jamie lynne · #3 2010-10-17, 12:53pm

Did you have your propane on while you were checking for leaks? You have to have it on in order to see if there are leaks (on at the tank NOT at the torch). Sounds like you are one lucky woman.

kbinkster · #4 2010-10-17, 12:56pm

If you are testing for leaks with leak detection solution or soapy water and test the connection between the hose and the torch inlet with the torch propane valve shut (tank on and regulator set), and there is no leak, then the when you open the valve and bubbles appear, it is probably leaking in the valve body in the needle seat or around the threads of the valve.

I wouldn't use the torch under those conditions. It's not safe.

ilovetomp · #5 2010-10-17, 1:06pm

Yes, I sprayed the solution on the torch. I really didn't think dunking it would work.

The propane and the oxygen were on.

So, with my understanding from Kbinster, I think I may just write this off as a lesson learned. I thought that perhaps it was a flashback arrestor issue. I have the arrestor at the tank, not on the torch. I thought maybe I should get the torch arrestors.

Well, I think I will just order a new National. I have several tips and I love the versatility of the torch. Going to Sundance.

Thank you.

kbinkster · #6 2010-10-17, 1:07pm

You shouldn't have to pay for a new one - it's a defect with the torch. Isn't it under warranty?

ilovetomp · #7 2010-10-17, 1:31pm

I do not know. I bought it in February of last year. I have been using GTT Bobcat and I thought I would finally hook this one up.

You know, usually, when I purchase something I am under the impression that it should work well.

However, now that I have your wonderful input, I am going to contact National and see if there is anything they can do. Perhaps they can repair it.

I just like using different torches. Kind of a freak like that, I guess.

Again, thank you so much for your input.

kbinkster · #8 2010-10-17, 1:34pm

I would hope that they repair it or replace it. You have a lot invested in it (with the tips and all) and the problem does not sound like it was due to anything you did.

I'm a torch collector, too. There's nothing wrong with liking different torches. They might have different abilities, but they should at least be operational and safe.

ilovetomp · #9 2010-10-17, 3:29pm

I totally love torches. Instead of shoes and handbags, it's torches. Something seriously wrong, huh?

One thing fortunate about the 8m is that I can just get a new 8m for about $150.00 and all of the different tips, they will all adapt.

Again, thank you.

ArtcoInc · #10 2010-10-17, 3:54pm

On the 8M, the valve for the gas is threaded into the back of the torch, and the hose threads directly to the valve. So, there are 4 places where the gas could be leaking:

1) The gas hose itself
2) The threads between the hose and the valve
3) The valve itself
4) The threads between the valve and the torch body.

If you could narrow down exactly where the flame was coming out, we may be able to offer a solution.

Malcolm

Dale M. · #11 2010-10-17, 4:35pm

If it's a "leak" its certainly repairable unless main torch body is cracked.... You should not have to buy new torch body....

I'm with Malcom, sound like something has become loose and just may need a little TL&C...

If you had a picture with a pointer to where leak is it would be really easy to diagnose online...

Dale

ilovetomp · #12 2010-10-17, 5:42pm

Here is the photo of where the flame was coming from. It was a beautiful bushy flame and I am so afraid to start her up again, so. I am trying to convince my husband to light it so that I can get another photo of it.

Could it be an issue with a flashback arrestor? My flashback is currently on my propane tank. Maybe I should have one at the torch.
I am not completely techno saavy on all this stuff; however, I am trying to learn.

squid · #13 2010-10-17, 5:47pm

I would NOT relight it.

ilovetomp · #14 2010-10-17, 5:57pm

Yeah, my thoughts, too.

ArtcoInc · #15 2010-10-17, 7:26pm

That is the fitting on the end of the gas hose. You may only need to tighten the fitting, or the fitting itself may need to be replaced.

I'd suggest removing the hose, make sure that everything is clean (no debris on the mating parts), and reattach the hose, making sure it's tight. If that doesn't fix it, than you probably need to replace the fitting on the end of the hose.

If you need to repair the hose, you can either have your local welding supply place crimp on a new end, or you can just cut the hose, and use a barbed fitting and a hose clamp.

A flashback arrestor at the torch would have made no difference in this case. What you have is a leak, not a flashback.

Malcolm

ilovetomp · #16 2010-10-18, 6:57am

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Dale M. · #17 2010-10-18, 8:43am

Also the connection is LEFT HAND thread... Counter clockwise to tighten...

The clue here is two ways, its a FUEL hose, and the little grooves in fitting where wrench is applied ....

You should be able to tighten it and turn on propane and do a leak test without lighting torch, if you do not get any bubbles or propane smell (get nose real close and sniff) you are probably good to go, IF you can not get it to seal with processes Malcolm suggested then yes have welding shop take a look at it...

All the hoses, valves, regulators and fitting of lampwork torches (well 95%) came for welding industry and any competent welding shop should be able to help you even if they look kind of questioningly at torch its self (some have never seen lampwork torches) If they try to sell you complete new hose you are in wrong place (unless you want to buy new one) ...

Dale

Dale M. · #18 2010-10-20, 8:23am

Bump.

Any resolution yet?

Dale