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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2012-02-04, 9:18am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 107
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Punty-ing buttons...
I have been addicted to making buttons lately and have made some that I would have been very happy with....
...except for the crazing across the surface where the punty was attached. I even try and make sure to pick all the punty glass off with tweezers but I still get cracked, flaking glass after a day or two. Has anyone else had this problem? THere has to be a better way to do this since lots of people make buttons with raised, unencased designs that can't even be 'picked'....
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2012-02-04, 9:29am
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Mr Brutus RIP
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Join Date: Apr 29, 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,369
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Ok, I can't think of how you are making it since it is too early....... are you doing an implosion type and then adding the loop?
Mine are on mandrels, 2 hole, regular mandrel for a shank style and also a copper loop.
BUT I've been trying to think of how to make one with an implosion......and no mandrel.
Maybe it is the glass you are using? I have CIM clear, got an awesome clear batch so I bought a bunch more.........garbage! All crappy and I have tried pickling it even.
SO maybe that is the problem? OH< or maybe the glass is incompatible......a different coe? or a boro punty? hmmmm hopefully someone else will know. My guess might be a different coe and you are not getting all of it off
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2012-02-04, 9:32am
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Mr Brutus RIP
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Join Date: Apr 29, 2006
Location: Central Florida
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do you have a picture?
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2012-02-04, 10:25am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2010
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This one is BellaDonna on a maria of CIM Hades and encased with CIM Clear.
This one is just some frit from That Frit Girl on a base of random Devardi plum and encased with CIM clear. The cracking is only on the surface where the boro punty was attatched.
These are Aeon on a base of Hades and encased with CIM Clear. One has a crack down the middle and the other has a crack on the surface where the boro punty was attatched.
I guess I should add that I haven't had any compatibility problems thus far with this batch of CIM Clear. I've had it almost a year.
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2012-02-04, 11:03am
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Mr Brutus RIP
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Join Date: Apr 29, 2006
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,369
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wow, bummer! They are really pretty. I would guess its boro getting left behind.
The divardi, well lets just say I bought some and will NEVER again use it. What I made cracked.....
Yea, my guess is its the boro being left behind cause the others should be fine.
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2012-02-04, 1:51pm
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Senior Member
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Thanks so much for the input. Guess I'll try harder to remove all traces of the boro. Its just hard to pick and pull glass without pulling whats underneath. I agree the Devardi is crappy, shocky glass but thus far I haven't had compatibility issues. Guess I'll double check everything. Too bad I still have several pounds of it to use up. 
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2012-02-04, 4:12pm
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: The Rocky Coast State!
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If you are having bits of boro sticking, my guess is you're puntying up with more of a hot seal than a cold one. Your button needs to be warm so it doesn't thermal shock with coolness outside the flames for too long but try having the tip of the boro screaming hot. Out of the flame, touch the boro to the button and slightly pull it away. You want as little contact between the two glasses as you can. Done correctly, the boro punty should just pop off at the slighted "tunk" on (I use my torch) a hard surface.
Does this make sense? It's always hard to describe in words.
Sue
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Sue Walsh
The past is history,
The future is a mystery
and the present is a gift.
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2012-02-04, 5:39pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2010
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Thank you Sue. You are right, I am probably doing it wrong. I never took a class so I just stuck the punty on there. So the punty should be glowing but the button/bead should not be? Would stainless puntys work better? I kind of like making buttons but its disappointing when almost all of them flake on top.
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2012-02-04, 5:53pm
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Senior Member
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I prefer glass to glass. With glass to glass, you need to tunk it lightly to break the bond. With s.s. rods/chopsticks/whatever, if the joint cools too much, it will break without any help at all- usually at the worst possible time.
Check out this thread:
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showth...rble+cold+seal
It may help.
Sue
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Sue Walsh
The past is history,
The future is a mystery
and the present is a gift.
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2012-02-04, 6:52pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2010
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Thank you! I read the thread and wouldn't have known to use cool glass/hot punty. I was joining them at basically the same temperature. I will try the new method Monday when I have more torch time.
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2012-02-04, 6:52pm
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Mr Brutus RIP
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Join Date: Apr 29, 2006
Location: Central Florida
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Awesome info Sue, I never knew the proper way to do that!!
Sue
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2012-02-04, 7:06pm
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Hummel factory reject
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Location: New Yorkish
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Wow glass, I use a metal punty for soft glass buttons and off mandrel things. When you are finished and ready for annealing just heat the punty and it will release cleanly. Just another way to do it ��
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2012-02-04, 7:12pm
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Borovangelist
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I don't often dabble in soft, but can you use a soft glass rod as your final punty? I know if the tips are rounded the rods are less likely to explode.
I figure that way you've got compatible glass, so if you leave a little speck you can just circle around the mark to smooth it in.
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2012-02-04, 7:20pm
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Senior Member
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Tom, yes, you can but if you have a design on the button face and leave a dab of your punty, it can ruin the design. Sometimes I coat my design with clear so that won't happen but mostly I just use a boro punty.
This one would be ruined:
This one has a layer of transparent over it so would be okay with a 104 bit of clear punty left to be melted in:
Sue
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Sue Walsh
The past is history,
The future is a mystery
and the present is a gift.
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2012-02-04, 9:12pm
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Borovangelist
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I like the little cutouts 
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2012-02-04, 9:14pm
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Formerly FishBulb
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It takes a bit of practice to get what's called a "cold seal". I just use a soft glass rod, marver it into a point, heat the object a little bit and the tip of the rod a little bit, then press them together. If your glass isn't so hot that it's melted then it should stick together while you do your thing.
Practice on other marbles or buttons before continuing with your good ones, and you'll get the feel for how hot both the things should be before they're attached, and what a good attachment feels like.
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2012-02-05, 8:21am
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SCIENCE Teacher!
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Join Date: Jul 19, 2005
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 2,140
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Sue - gorgeous!
I use the same COE of glass as a punty so there are no compatibility issues, then use hot fingers tool to hold it and finish off the top.
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2012-02-06, 5:41am
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Glass-aholic
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Yes with the technique wowglass is currently using, a 104 punty would be the best bet/easiest transition. I agree with Tom. I also agree that if modified to the intended cd seal boro would be my choice for cracking off to early reasons . Happy torching!
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hand dyed silk ribbons in many colors!
WASHERS & TOPPERS - layering components for interchangeable glass topper and to use in other jewelry/metalwork.:
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2012-02-07, 2:46pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jul 20, 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
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I use the same glass that I've encased the button with. If your punty seal doesn't break off like a cold seal should, you just need to melt the remaining glass and pick off what you don't like and melt the rest in. I usually melt the tip of the punty and make a point on the end, then attach the point with a cold seal. I've never had any issues with it. Good luck!
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2012-02-07, 3:01pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 25, 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 107
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All this is good information and thanks to everyone who chimed in. I don't have a clue why I thought I HAD to use a different COE as the punty. It honestly never occured to me to use the same glass.
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