Mapp or Propane Bulk on HH..need advice

[JenniferP]

I'm just going through the 1 pound mapp gas canisters so very fast, and the freezing canisters are starting to bug me. Not to mention that I pay almost $8 per canister and now up to 4 a week or so. So I think I am going to upgrade to a bulk tank and wondered which do you prefer...mapp or propane?

If somebody on bulk propane with a HH could help me out and describe your set up and how you run the hose/pressure gage and what you do with the tank, I would so very much appreciate it!

Thanks very much!
Jennifer

[Dale M.]

I have used both bulk propane and bulk MAPP, quite frankly I can not tell much different in temperature of either fuel... I did find that working a bit further out in flame with propane did improve the quality of my beads, the was less burning of color and soot marks...

The main difference is the combustion process for MAPP is more complete at base of flame than propane, propane completes it combustion process a little slower so it completes a bit further out... Don't be to concerned, we are only talking 2-3-4 inches here ....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Dale

[Flonche]

Hi Jennifer!
Good decision, the small Mapp canisters are a pain in the butt. I only used about 10 of them before I switched to propylene, thinking it would be better than propane. THe only tank available for me at Airgas was a 30lbs tank, and I did with that for about 7 months. I bought a 12ft hose from Arrow Springs and have my tank on the porch outside, with the hose out by the sliding door when I torch.
Then one day I decided to try a BBQ-size (20 lbs) of propane, just to see the difference and because they are way cheaper (30$ less for each refill) and more easily available for me. I'm using the same hose.
Turns out the pressure of the 20# is much more adapted to the HH than the 30#. It burns just as well but doesn't overburn, in other words it's working perfectly for me.
I'd say go for the propane, the HH likes it!

[LoriB]

Hi, Flonche!
I'm pretty new to all this and am currently using the small MAPP canisters with my HH. So please forgive me if this is a really stupid question, but are you saying that you use the BBQ propane tank alone with your HH, or do you also use an oxygen tank somewhere with it? All I've ever heard is people using either the MAPP gas, or then they upgrade to the 2 canister system, so I'm very interested to know how this works for you. Also, since it gets pretty cold outside now, do you have to wrap your tank in some sort of insulating blanket or anything to keep the gas from freezing up?

Thanks!
Lori

[Samyel]

I'm also getting peeved with my little MAPP gas cannisters and looking to upgrade. Anyone want to describe, step by step, how to set up a simple propane workstation? It would be immensely useful, as I (and I suspect some of my fellow newbies) don't have anyone local to fall back on for advice.

[JenniferP]

Well, what I did was I ordered a special hose 15 feet long from Arrow Springs. It has a special adaptor "head" that fits onto the end of the hothead torch. This is a special type of head, and I could not find it anywhere local. This head is permanently attached to the hose. The other end of the hose screws into the propane tank.

My hose is due to arrive tomorrow, I think, and I'm just going to hook it up to the propane tank, which will be outside, and run the hose in thrhough the window, and attach it to my hothead torch.

This creates a new problem for me, as I don't have anything to "stand" the torch up and attach it to my workbench. If anybody has any suggestions please let me know!

But no oxygen is needed, just the propane. And when I have the $$ in January or Feb, I"m going to upgrade to a minor torch which uses oxygen and propane.

I actually had the opportunity to use a minor torch today in a 3 hour private lesson...it was wonderful! I took all of my reactive glass that I just can't work on my hothead and had a field day! The big difference between the minor and the hothead is that the bead was VERY hot to the core and I had to watch for drooping. It just doesn't get that hot on the hothead. On the hothead it seems to only get the surface hot not to the core. But it was wonderful to melt glass quickly on the minor. But there is going to be a learning curve for me...I was getting the hang of it when my 3 hours was up!!

[evvybuns]

After chewing through 8,523 cans of MAPP gas, I got the 15-foot hose from Arrow Springs and have been using my Hot Head and propane (the same kind used with barbeques) since the late summer. My DH set up the Hot Head with quite the Rube Goldberg touches of C clamps, aluminum strips, screws with wing nuts. It works fine. No gauge is necessary with this set-up. When you torch, open the propane completely by turning its valve counterclockwise until it doesn't turn any more. When I'm done, I turn off the propane tank and light the Hot Head to burn off the propane in the hose until it's gone.

It's dangerous to keep a propane tank inside. Mine is outside, and the 15-foot hose runs from it through the bottom of the garage wall to my Hot Head.

I recently took a class where Minor torches were used. Oh, God! What a mistake THAT was. I may be hooked. I'm taking another class this Saturday. I see a Minor and an oxygen concentrator in my future.

But to get back to the original intent of the thread: Get the 15-foot hose, hook it up to the propane tank and Hot Head, and flame away when you figure out how to anchor the Hot Head. Occasionally I've had to purge the hose because some sort of yucky stuff can build up in it and cause flame problems, but I haven't had to deal with that in several weeks.

[Dale M.]

The hose to connect HH torch to bulk propane tank is no mystery......

They have been available in camping industry for years.... Torch end is 1x20tpi male "throwaway" and other end (tank) is industry standard POL (for PREST-O-LITE) or as some say "Put On Left", because it has left hand treads...

Sears, Wal-Mar, Ace Hardware, And Sporting goods with camping supplies may have one...

http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails.asp?catid=52

Item Number: F273702

Dale

[kahlamodie]

[quote=JenniferP;1531894]....

This creates a new problem for me, as I don't have anything to "stand" the torch up and attach it to my workbench. If anybody has any suggestions please let me know!.....

Jennifer, Dale had posted a pic of that set-up somewhere. I have yet to do it to mine, but I bought an L-shaped bracket with some screws and a clamp thingy (don`t know what it`s called) that looks like the clamp you see around your dryer vent hose. It`s a metal clamp. You clamp the HH to the L bracket tightly, then screw the L bracket either into your table, or as I`m going to do, into a block of wood which will be C-clamped onto the table, and there you have it. Maybe Dale can come up with that picture for you...

[Elleth]

I recently hooked up my HH to bulk propane, it was easier then I thought it would be.
I purchased a 12 ft hose at the local propane store, the hose goes out the window to the propane tank. The HH is attached to my work table with a slightly bent L bracket and clamps. I took a couple of pictures, I hope they help!

[JenniferP]

AAWW, thanks so much for the pictures!

My hose arrived today, and I''m going out to get a 20 pounder propane tank tomorrow!! Hooray!

I talked to the owner of the Hothead Company at length today. She was sooo helpful. Yes, the bulk tank is safe. Yes the hothead can handle the bulk tank. Yes you can reduce on a hothead (you have to turn the flame way up and then use the bottom turquoise cone and flash in and out). BUT, she prefers prophylene (I know I probably spelled this wrong) for a lot of reasons. For me to use this I have to spend $110 on buying a 30 pound tank and $45 for each refill. Since I"m getting a minor hopefully in January I thought I'd just go with the propane instead and just stop making this process so hard. Really really nice lady who put all of my fears to rest!

[Holly]

If freezing is a problem with the 1# Mapp canisters, try the squat 1# camping cannisters of propane. I never had one freeze on me.
You can get them at Target for under $5 for two in the camping department.

[ewdb]

Originally Posted by Holly Cooper

If freezing is a problem with the 1# Mapp canisters, try the squat 1# camping cannisters of propane. I never had one freeze on me.
You can get them at Target for under $5 for two in the camping department.

yup. that's what i use. i torch on the 2nd floor so a hose out the window is not really an option. plus winters here are seriously cold so i'm not even sure a tank kept outside would be very useable - i currently have about 3ft of snow in my backyard...

now they can freeze up and lose pressure but nowhere near as fast as mapp tanks. i find i can usually work for about 1.5hrs before i need to dunk the tank in some water to warm it up. usually tho, i just take a 15min break between every 1-2 beads (mine take up to an hr or so each) to give the tank time to warm up.

[AnneC]

Originally Posted by Dale M.

and other end (tank) is industry standard POL (for PREST-O-LITE) or as some say "Put On Left", because it has left hand treads...

Dale

Found this out the hard way - after whining to dh because the hose didn't fit...seriously hunnie, there's something wrong with the fitting!!

I've got my HH hooked up to a bbq tank and attached to the bench with an L bracket...works great for now....eyeballin' a Minor

[cem]

Originally Posted by evvybuns

Occasionally I've had to purge the hose because some sort of yucky stuff can build up in it and cause flame problems, but I haven't had to deal with that in several weeks.

Can you explain how you purge the hose? I recently connected a bulk mapp tank to my HH and within minutes the flame increased and droplets of guck spayed my work area. I know it is guck from the hose, yellow oily drops. I turned off the bulk tank, burned off the gas in the hose, disconnected the hose and then hung it in a tree. No drainage!!

I did notice that the end that goes in the HH has a pin which blocks the opening when it is not on the HH. The other end ( the one which attaches to the tank) has a small hole. So how do you purge it, I was not successful.

Thanks in advance. cem

[Dale M.]

Leave HH connected to hose and leave torch valve open, hang hose with torch up, any oils should drain out tank connector...

By leaving torch on hose and valve open, it allows air to seep in above oily goo and break the vacuum in upper part of hose.

Dale

[agw]

I just set up a bulk MAPP gas tank today, a 13.6 kg one, and I really liked the flame I got from it! Of course, I'm so new at lampworking, it might just be my imagination LOL, but it seemed to me to be better than the 1# tanks. No loss of pressure at all.

I asked the guys at the gas supplier repeatedly and they all assured me ( I asked every single employee there privately over two weeks!) if I could keep it inside, rather than outside like propane, and they all said it was safe to do so. 40 below is the same in celcius and Fahrenheit - damn fricken cold and the fewer holes I have to drill in my house to the outside the better! ...still have to figure a way to heat my fresh replacement air somehow before fall...

[Dale M.]

MAPP and Propane have the same "heavier than air" properties which means they pool in low places when they leak. I know Canadian rules are different than in US, BUT MAPP gas has all the same explosive dangers as propane. No matter what your people said about it being safe, they are wrong.....

Study the MSDS's for MAPP and PROPANE and you will see that they have same flammability dangers, same pressure dangers, same contact dangers, and same specific gravity. Them makes them equally dangerous.

Again the people you asked are not knowledgeable to the dangers even if the work for gas suppliers. Usually these people are the worst to get safety data from because they work with the gasses all day and since they have not had a accident, they are pretty casual about with their attitudes to these dangers.

Dale

[cem]

Hey, thanks for the info. I purged the hose but nothing came out. I had it hanging out the second floor window for two days. It was sunny and warm, 19 deg. C. So I decided to call the hose fitting people. I talked to the guy to assembled the hose. He told me that the sputtering and spitting flames were probably a result of the silcone which he used when assembling the fittings.

Set my bulk hose/torch up again today and it worked like a charm. Wow, that was fun and much faster than a 1 lb. canister.

thanks cem

[Dale M.]

May want to read this white paper on hose gunk...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...opic.php?t=219

Dale