HELP!! Mega Minor or Cricket for big/sculptural work??

ewdb · #1 2008-10-29, 9:24am

Ok, i need to upgrade from my Hothead but i'm struggling and can't decide. I've read up on both torches on each manufacturers site, read through every Cricket/Minor thread here and on WC and still can't decide...

-both torches are designed to optimize low pressure/concentrator setup
-both are hotter than the minor and claim they can handle beads bigger than 2"
-both work well for soft glass on 1 concentrator and boro on 2
-both are approx the same price (i'm in Canada - hence the diff)
-both come in my fave hot, sexy colours (lipstick red vs sparkly purple)

-I prefer soft glass to boro so being able to melt lots of boro isn't a deciding factor for me

So i'm hoping to get recommendations from those of you who have actually tried these torches and regularly make big -like up to/over 2"- and/or sculptural beads. (NO vendors, pls!)

why? because that's the only reason why i'm changing torches.
My trusty HH is fine for little beads - i just don't want to make little beads anymore. I make mostly big/sculptural beads and i'm losing patience with the amount of the time it takes to melt all the glass for a 3-5inch bead - plus i really want to see how big and fast i can work when i don't have limits.

betsymn · #2 2008-10-29, 9:51am

I bought a Cricket to replace my Bobcat until I can afford to get a Lynx. The Cricket is noisier and not as hot as the Bobcat. My vote would be for the Bobcat. I ran it on one oxycon for several years with no problems (other than carbon buildup).

Hayley · #3 2008-10-29, 10:26am

If you are interested in a torch that can "melt all the glass for a 3-5inch bead" then neither torch will work for you.

During one of our SGB NorCal meetings, Cynthia Tilker/glassactcc used Sharon Peter's Mega Minor to do a demo and thought it wasn't big enough a torch for her - and she makes large beads and sculptures.

You may want to consider a larger torch such as a Lynx or Cheetah, as well as a two-stage torch such as a Barracuda.

infinitecharms · #4 2008-10-29, 9:05pm

I have a mega minor with 2 m-15 oxycons and it melts soft glass great. I usually use only 1 oxycon because 2 makes it too hot for soft glass. I also do boro pendants and 1.25 boro marbles with it. I made a bead from Sarah Hornik's Think Pink tutorial which I think was over 2 inches long and I had no trouble with it. It is a great torch. I am getting a Phantom in 2 days because I want to go bigger with boro but I will not sell my little red torch because it has been great to me and I might just set it up to work with soft glass if the Phantom is too hot for it.

Cosmo · #5 2008-10-30, 6:11am

I would look at a Knight Bullet. It won't run on concentrators, but for what you're doing concentrators aren't your best choice anyways.

glassactcc · #6 2008-10-30, 7:39am

So true Hayley, too small for me. The Bullet is great and I also love the Carlisle Hellcat! I used it at Arrow Springs for my class and they are $200.00 off right now. Oh I want one bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

If you are interested in a torch that can "melt all the glass for a 3-5inch bead" then neither torch will work for you.

During one of our SGB NorCal meetings, Cynthia Tilker/glassactcc used Sharon Peter's Mega Minor to do a demo and thought it wasn't big enough a torch for her - and she makes large beads and sculptures.

You may want to consider a larger torch such as a Lynx or Cheetah, as well as a two-stage torch such as a Barracuda.

Wendyki · #7 2008-10-30, 7:46am

I use my mega minor on my larger tube beads all the time and now on the Locco style dragons as well as my seashells. I quite frequently make 2 to 3 inch shells on it for a special order.

I agree if you want beads like Cynthias its probably not the torch for you. but a little smaller then hers like mine you should be fine.

I made a 12 1/2 inch long bead on it as a whim in a long bead contest and have turned out 3 and 4 inch beads when i use my mandrel spinner without a problem. I think it would more depend on how big and thick your bead would be.

Do you have a studio anywhere near by you could go and try both torches or at least the mega minor?

tonips · #8 2008-10-30, 8:16am

Upgraded my hothead to the Cricket w/a 5LPM concentrator and absolutely love it. It's whisper quiet, and for working with soft glass, I turned down the oxycon and the propane because I felt it was too hot. I'm able to make round aquarium beads over 1-1/4" across, and for fine detail work, the pinpoint capabilities are amazing. Love not having to worry about storing the oxygen, also.

I've never made a 5" bead, so somebody else will have to address that one!!

Toni

ewdb · #9 2008-10-30, 2:09pm

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your input and keep it coming!

My beads aren't anywhere near as complex as Cynthia's! i guess it would probably help if i showed examples of the beads i currently make on my HH... so here goes: my goddess beads currently range between 1.5-4" in length, vary in width and the pregnant ones range btwn 0.75-2" thick.

this tusk is about 2.5" long i think

these two focals (right one encased) are between 2.5-3.5" long, about 1" wide and 0.5-0.75" thick.

If i can work soft glass to this size on a cooler torch like the HH, then do i really need a very advanced torch just to work a few inches bigger?

also, i have some space restrictions: my studio is in a 2nd floor bedroom with limited free space so i don't currently have the option of toting around tanks and/or installing a powerful permanent ventilation system (which i'm assuming the much bigger torches would require?). here's a pic of my studio area: http://shebamakeda.com/my-studio/

I'm putting together my ventilation right now - likely some sort of fan/funnel/hose connection i can move in and out of the window needed as a permanent setup isn't an option right now and winters here are seriously cold.

i think at least for the next year or so i just need something that can function on a concentrator and a 5lb propane tank in my current setup and allow me to work bigger. I don't mind changing torches again in about 12 months as my living situation will likely have changed by then and i'll have more options.

Does this additional information help to narrow things down?

ewdb · #10 2008-10-30, 2:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

If you are interested in a torch that can "melt all the glass for a 3-5inch bead" then neither torch will work for you.

During one of our SGB NorCal meetings, Cynthia Tilker/glassactcc used Sharon Peter's Mega Minor to do a demo and thought it wasn't big enough a torch for her - and she makes large beads and sculptures.

You may want to consider a larger torch such as a Lynx or Cheetah, as well as a two-stage torch such as a Barracuda.

what's a "two-stage torch"?

ewdb · #11 2008-10-30, 2:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

I would look at a Knight Bullet. It won't run on concentrators, but for what you're doing concentrators aren't your best choice anyways.

thanks but tanks definitely aren't an option for me right now. i can't even imagine hauling one up 3 flights of stairs each time i needed oxy - not to mention how much my condo neighbours would FREAK!

ewdb · #12 2008-10-30, 2:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassactcc

So true Hayley, too small for me. The Bullet is great and I also love the Carlisle Hellcat! I used it at Arrow Springs for my class and they are $200.00 off right now. Oh I want one bad.

ok wow, just looked up the bullet and the hellcat. WAAAAAYYYY outta my budget right now....

Cynthia, what do you currently use?

ewdb · #13 2008-10-30, 2:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendyki

I use my mega minor on my larger tube beads all the time and now on the Locco style dragons as well as my seashells. I quite frequently make 2 to 3 inch shells on it for a special order.

I agree if you want beads like Cynthias its probably not the torch for you. but a little smaller then hers like mine you should be fine.

I made a 12 1/2 inch long bead on it as a whim in a long bead contest and have turned out 3 and 4 inch beads when i use my mandrel spinner without a problem. I think it would more depend on how big and thick your bead would be.

Do you have a studio anywhere near by you could go and try both torches or at least the mega minor?

Love yr shells!

i can probably try the mega in the next few weeks - a couple people in our group bought it. but for the others i'm probably out of luck. not much happening in Ottawa on the lampwork side (yet...we're working on it!

) and most people i know make smaller beads than me and use a minor (the regular one not the Mega).

beadworkstudio · #14 2008-10-30, 5:05pm

I think what you're used to and your expectations as far as speed and such are a huge factor.

I frequently make beads 3" or longer. I had a Piranha and recently upgraded to a Cricket (yes, upgraded!). It is a little hotter and has more radiant heat. I no longer need both concentrators (M-10s). I can make long beads very easily.

I had a regular Minor until about 4 years ago, so I can't really compare them from memory. The Minor on one concentrator wasn't as hot as a Piranha on one concentrator. And the Cricket is a little hotter and has a nicer flame for large beads than the Piranha. So my *guess* is that the Cricket on one concentrator is comparable to the Mega Minor on two.

Oh, and if the Cricket was any quieter, I wouldn't be able to hear it. I can't imagine it being noisier than anything.

Hayley · #15 2008-10-31, 5:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewdb

what's a "two-stage torch"?

I think that's the technical term . . . lol . . .it means a torch that has an inner fire and an outer fire like the Barracuda, Knight Bullet and Hellcat. The center fire of these torches are the respective manufacturer's smaller torches.

Heidi von Frozenfyre · #16 2008-10-31, 6:18pm

I vote GTT all the way.

Nortels are notoriously dirty burners because they don't combust the gasses efficiently. Now I'm not saying this to start up a fight or anything.. to each their own.. and to each their pocketbooks.

GTT's are so good I don't even push the torch I designed in Europe.

GTT's burn sooo clean, and you can grab the torch while it's lit and it's cool. It'll open up a whole new creative window for you.

You'll see the clean difference between the GTT and your HH.

glassactcc · #17 2008-11-02, 8:34am

[quote=
Cynthia, what do you currently use?[/QUOTE]

Oh I lost track of this thread. I started with a Mini CC and then went to a National 8M but now I'm using an Arnold Zenit which I love but it's way overkill. The National 8M is nice because you can put three different tips on it as you like for different size flames and it is reasonably priced. BUT I STILL WANT THE HELLCAT

Cabanlet · #18 2008-11-03, 11:59am

I just bought a mega minor about a month ago and it's okay. It is definitely hotter than my minor. I run on a 15M.
So then I just bought a cricket and have used it for two days and it is AMAZING! And that little sucker is HOT HOT HOT. The flame is more penetrating, but not as wide as the mega - whicH I really liked about it. I am thinking about selling my mega minor...
Amy

Kevan · #19 2008-11-04, 12:53pm

I've made beads that size on my regular minor for years.

ewdb · #20 2008-11-04, 6:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassactcc

Oh I lost track of this thread. I started with a Mini CC and then went to a National 8M but now I'm using an Arnold Zenit which I love but it's way overkill. The National 8M is nice because you can put three different tips on it as you like for different size flames and it is reasonably priced. BUT I STILL WANT THE HELLCAT

Cynthia, would you mind sharing why you changed torches in the past? was it a hotter flame? more ambient heat? boro?

ewdb · #21 2008-11-04, 6:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevan

I've made beads that size on my regular minor for years.

you've made 3-6"+ beads on the regular minor? cool. i kept hearing it doesn't have a bushy enough flame for bigger sculptural work

To be frank, several very experienced beadmakers have mentioned i'd probably do just fine with a basic minor (not even the mega) - it was described as "inexpensive but a workhorse".

i had decided to go with the mega over the minor based on this Nortel torch table: http://www.nortelmanufacturing.com/t...-choices.shtml

still debating...

ewdb · #22 2008-11-04, 6:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabanlet

I just bought a mega minor about a month ago and it's okay. It is definitely hotter than my minor. I run on a 15M.
So then I just bought a cricket and have used it for two days and it is AMAZING! And that little sucker is HOT HOT HOT. The flame is more penetrating, but not as wide as the mega - whicH I really liked about it. I am thinking about selling my mega minor...
Amy

this might be a dumb question

... but by "penetrating" do you mean it melts the glass faster? or retains more ambient heat?

angelinabeadalina · #23 2008-11-04, 7:37pm

Evelyn, I haven't used any of the torches you've considered, but here's some of my personal experience with torches. I've never used a hothead, so no way for me to compare any of them with that. I started with a used Minor, and it is a workhorse. I think the combination of a sucky oxygen concentrator plus the Minor meant that I didn't get as much heat out of it as I wanted, though. I got a used Betta, hoping to need less oxygen while torching. The Betta had a bushier flame with my concentrator, and it did really well with an oxygen tank. The flame wasn't so bushy that I couldn't do details, though. Personally, I'd worry more about how big a flame you want to have and ambient heat concerns than I would about being able to get a pinpoint flame-- sculpture on the mandrel needs to be bathed in heat, while it just takes practice to do stringer or detail work close to a big flame. I got very lucky this summer and got a great deal from Ron Jr. and Rocio on a used Great White. It is amazing! However, I don't know that I needed to step up that far to get the heat I need. Another thing-- if you can work off mandrel, then you'd probably be fine with a Minor. I tried off mandrel this summer, ironically, at the same time I got that huge Great White. I found out I don't like off mandrel or boro as much as I do soft glass on the mandrel, so I'm keeping the Great White. But if I could do off mandrel, I'd probably think about selling that big torch and just using my Betta. Hope this gives you some idea.

glassactcc · #24 2008-11-06, 10:10am

Well, I changed from the mini to the National 8M because of the flame size. My beads were growing in size pretty quickly. I have never enjoyed making small beads or sets. I liked the fact that the National had the capability of large flame but had the different size heads that I could use if I wanted too. It was like having three torches in one and it was a work horse. It's a very nice torch. The reason I switched up to the Herbert Arnold was completely by accident and really was not planned. My husband and I were at CRLoo and there it was and I was drooling all over the place so he bought it for me and I didn't even know it. Like I said, it's overkill for what I do but the flame is amazing and very clean and can easily go from a full blown 40 mm, to a pinpoint with one dial. There are so many torches out there that I have never tried that are probably wonderful torches. For me, it's all about the size of the flame. I like a bushy flame that can get very tiny for detail work.

I also might want to add that oxy was never an issue for me because I have had an oxy generator for years now. That might be something you might want to consider with a new torch too as far as how much oxy they use. I tried a Red Max and it really used up a lot of oxy and with bottles, no way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewdb

Cynthia, would you mind sharing why you changed torches in the past? was it a hotter flame? more ambient heat? boro?

squid · #25 2008-11-06, 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewdb

you've made 3-6"+ beads on the regular minor? cool. i kept hearing it doesn't have a bushy enough flame for bigger sculptural work

To be frank, several very experienced beadmakers have mentioned i'd probably do just fine with a basic minor (not even the mega) - it was described as "inexpensive but a workhorse".

i had decided to go with the mega over the minor based on this Nortel torch table: http://www.nortelmanufacturing.com/t...-choices.shtml

still debating...

The cricket is at a minimum at least as hot as a mega minor - and it is cheaper

thatsmithlady · #26 2008-11-08, 1:40pm

I moved from a hot head, but still keep it and use it for silversmithing on occasion...I bought a mega minor and have a 15LPM ox-con. I have no need for anything bigger or hotter right now and can produce marbles 3 inches with the set up...could you try out the 2 torches in someone's studio? I'm on Vancouver Island...if your close pm me.

ewdb · #27 2008-11-14, 7:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatsmithlady

I moved from a hot head, but still keep it and use it for silversmithing on occasion...I bought a mega minor and have a 15LPM ox-con. I have no need for anything bigger or hotter right now and can produce marbles 3 inches with the set up...could you try out the 2 torches in someone's studio? I'm on Vancouver Island...if your close pm me.

thanks for the offer but i'm halfway across the country from you - i would have loved to visit otherwise!

I did eventually get to try a minor this week and and was amazed at how hot (and quiet!) it was and how much faster I could work! I made a 2" goddess bead in less than 10mins - it normally takes me 3x that amount of time on the HH! Only thing i found was the flame was a bit narrow for my tastes - the ends cooled quickly so i was constantly having to flash them...

one the one hand i'm now kicking myself for taking so long to upgrade but on the other hand, i really learned how to work slowly and adapt to the variety of flames on the HH...

don't think i'll ever give my HH up tho - i still love that little torch.

ewdb · #28 2008-11-29, 11:53am

Thanks for all the input everyone.

In the final count i decided to go with the Mega mostly because everyone i've spoken to really recommends them as solidly built, hardworking torches that last a long time. Also, for geographic reasons - they're right here in Canada so if i ever need repairs or questions i don't have to bother with any crossborder issues. plus Nortel gave me a good deal on the whole setup.

it's been set up with a 5lpm Devilbiss since Thursday and so far i LOVE this torch! the flame is wide enough and not too hot for how i work... I've made a biggest 2in bead so far and it was so easy and so fast to make so i'm kinda kicking myself for not upgrading sooner.

As i get used to the flame i'll be trying bigger beads...

Trey Cornette · #29 2008-12-14, 3:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

I would look at a Knight Bullet. It won't run on concentrators, but for what you're doing concentrators aren't your best choice anyways.

My Bullet Burner ran great on 2 M-20's and an 11 gallon holding tank

mandyjw · #30 2014-03-01, 9:15am

Sorry to hijack your thread Evelyn, but I thought this might be a good place to ask, I'm still waiting to get my cricket set up, does anyone know if it would ever be possible to make boro icicle ornaments on it? That's the only project I've ever wanted to do that required a really large torch.