Asking the experts - second thread

CrazyAboutGlass · #1 2010-03-16, 9:25am

My first post was put in the wrong forum..opps...so I started this one too...
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Hi all! I just took my second class with boro and I'm addicted (well I was addicted to all glass before, but today it's with boro)

I have a minor now and a 10 lpm oxygen concentrator....it melts the boro, but it's alittle too slow for me. My hubby is also getting into flameworking but he is looking into torches with a centerfire and more O2, so we're saving to make that the best torch....right now we just need a 'today torch' which we will use as a spare once we really get started.

So my question is....I'm looking to get something around $200 - 300 for now. I see the Piranha and the Beta and the 'not so sexy' midrange - But although many SAY Boro beads and small sculpture, I'm unable to find verification that I can do what I want with the concentrator I have....Does anyone make boro beads with a 10?...and only one 10...

Any thoughts you have are GREATLY appriciated! I've been googling myself to death

Thanks!
Anita

pierces*designs · #2 2010-03-16, 9:43am

Personally, I would recommend the cricket.

The cricket is on HOT little torch and should do Boro great on a 10.

Hayley · #3 2010-03-16, 9:54am

Anita, based on your budget, I'd recommend getting another oxycon instead of changing your torch.

Debbie, my experience with the Cricket is not the same as yours. I used it on a M15 and it's not as hot as the Bobcat (we have two M15s and had them hooked up side by side to test out).

CrazyAboutGlass · #4 2010-03-16, 10:14am

I'm not totally apposed to the second oxycon...they just take up so much valuable space! trying to get around it if I can...

kbinkster · #5 2010-03-16, 10:21am

Actually, adding another concentrator to the Minor isn't going to do much, if anything - at least not enough to justify the cost of another machine. 10 LPM is feeding it about as much as it needs.

On 10 LPM, neither the Betta nor the Piranha are going to be much of a step up. They're more of a step to the side - as would be the Cricket. The Bobcat or the Mega Minor would have a little bit more of a top end, but is it enough? I don't know. One of those would definitely allow you to make boro beads on a 10 LPM concentrator, but so would the Minor and the Cricket. The Lynx (which runs great on 10 LPM) would definitely be an upgrade from all of the torches you mentioned, but it costs $435.

dragonart glass · #6 2010-03-16, 10:49am

I have my center fire, which is a lynx, hooked up to a sequal concentrator and it works just fine for boro. I think my concentrator puts out 8 or 9 lpm. My advice is when it comes to concentrators and torches trust Kimberly's research. She has a lot of posts with valuable information in this forum. Read them, she's awesome!! You'll probably get more from reading threads on here than anywhere on google. Good luck in your research.

getdul981 · #7 2010-03-16, 12:03pm

I also have my torch (Knight Mini Dragon 7) hooked to a SeQual concentrator. I can melt up to 12 mm boro pretty easily. I'm not in this to make a living, so I don't need fast. At times, I would like the glass to melt a little faster, but until GTT calls and tells me they have a Scorpion with my name on it, I'll keep on with what I have. I can make marbles up to 1 1/4 inch fairly easily. The largest I've ever made was 1 7/8 inch and that took about 2 hours. A lot of the time was involved with the inside design though. I also have a 5 lpm concentrator (Invacare) that I'm hoping I can use with the Scorpion somehow.

getdul981 · #8 2010-03-16, 12:05pm

Ooops I just noticed that you were asking the experts. I am by no means an expert. Just letting you know what is working for me.

Lisi · #9 2010-03-16, 12:20pm

I'm not an expert either, but a Bobcat on a 15 was a hotter and bigger flame than the Cricket on a 15.

If you have a 10 or 15, skip the Cricket altogether and go for the Bobcat. If you can afford to spend more, go for the Lynx.

CrazyAboutGlass · #10 2010-03-16, 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by getdul981

Ooops I just noticed that you were asking the experts. I am by no means an expert. Just letting you know what is working for me.

LOL Greg! you are an expert to me

CrazyAboutGlass · #11 2010-03-16, 12:53pm

Thank you all for posting! I'm checking on all these torches now....

And for anyone that hasn't posted yet - I valued your 2 cents as well!

crofootadv · #12 2010-03-16, 2:08pm

No expert here either, but IMO a really good upgrade torch would be the Scorpion. It's got the really efficient Cricket as it's center fire, so most of the time you're running cheaply off your existing concentrator, then when you need the heat, crank up the outer fire on tanked O2.

I run a miniCC, and I can do up to 1 3/4" marbles (really slowly!), and my next torch will be either a Scorpion or a Phantom.

Lea Zinke · #13 2010-03-16, 2:12pm

I'd listen to Binkster, she's certainly the "in the know" person!

That said, I used the GTT Bobcat with a 10 lpm concentrator and moved to Lynx. Can do what I want to do on boro with no problem. Have used GTT torches now for a dozen years with only an occasional cleaning! Great product!

kbinkster · #14 2010-03-16, 2:31pm

Here is a thread that I posted showing measurements of various torches running on a 10 LPM machine:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=100224

This thread has pictures. There's another one with just the measurements, but no pictures for faster downloading. Just search my name for it.

PS If memory serves me correctly, it took 11 seconds for the Lynx (centerfire of the Phantom) and 13 or 14 seconds for the Cricket to cut through the 8 mm boro rod. I don't know why that wasn't included on that thread. I'll have to go back and find my notes to be sure what was what. I'll be doing melt tests on my new videos, so I might just repeat the test.

Oh, and thank you everyone for all the kind words. You're making me blush!

Sue in Maine · #15 2010-03-16, 2:41pm

I have both a mini cc and a cricket. I switch them out- mini cc (which is HOTTER than a minor) for 104 and cricket for boro. I do have oxy-cons. Now Lunamoonshadow works 104 on her cricket but I find mine gets too hot so I prefer the mini cc when I'm working soft glass. It's a learning curve, I'm sure.

The suggestion of the scorpion is a good one. It's the next step up from a cricket for anyone on oxy-cons, has both inner and outer flames. Very new on the torch scene.

Just my thoughts and I'm nowhere near an expert.

Sue

kbinkster · #16 2010-03-16, 3:06pm

The Scorpion does great on 10 LPM (check out my YouTube videos), but it is not in the $200-300 range.

crofootadv · #17 2010-03-16, 5:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbinkster

The Scorpion does great on 10 LPM (check out my YouTube videos), but it is not in the $200-300 range.

Price means nothing when we're talking about torch-lust here.......

Hayley · #18 2010-03-16, 5:34pm

My post was based on the assumption that Anita had a M10, thus recommending that she gets another oxycon. We all know that not all 10 lpm machines are created equal. If she had a Regalia, then she has choices on torches (Lynx, Scorpion, Piranha, Betta, even Barracuda) but it would not be within her $200-300 budget.

kbinkster · #19 2010-03-16, 9:25pm

All the "10"s out there get confusing.

The M10 is a 5 LPM machine. A long, long time ago, the M-10 was supposed to put out 10 LPM at 20 psi (because the base unit was supposedly a Respironics "Millennium 10" and it was actually called the "Millennium 10 Custom."). But then, not too long after they introduced the machines at the Louisville Gathering, Unlimited Oxygen changed the name to the "M-20" to reflect the pressure output they were trying to achieve. They then had a 5 LPM machine that was originally supposed to put out 10 psi (I think they now say it puts out 7 psi), and they named that the M-10, after the 10 psi pressure output.

Anyway, Anita said that she had a 10 LPM machine. She didn't say which brand. If she were talking about the 5 LPM, M-10, then your advice would have been spot on, Hayley. Adding a second 5 LPM to a Minor/5 LPM set-up makes a huge difference.

CrazyAboutGlass · #20 2010-03-18, 5:31pm

So much great info here! Thank you all! I've a M-10 from Unlimited Oxygen....So far stearing towards saving alittle more and getting a Lynx...it was the torch I wanted way back when I first was first introduced to flameworking....

kbinkster · #21 2010-03-19, 11:13am

Anita, if you have an M-10, and it's the 5 LPM model, then you should listen to what Hayley said. Upgrading your oxycon to one that really puts out 10 LPM will make a huge difference in your torch. 10 psi is not the same thing as 10 LPM.

The Lynx on 5 LPM is o.k. if you're just wanting to do soft glass beads and small boro (it is s-l-o-w, but possible - and still hotter than the Minor on 5 LPM). If you really want to make boro beads, then no matter what torch you have, you're going to want to have at least 10 LPM to feed it.

Hayley · #22 2010-03-19, 11:39am

Anita,

Your M10 won't power the Lynx to your liking. I have read others who had their Lynxes hooked up to one M15 and weren't happy with the performance of their torch.

Tanner Studios · #23 2010-03-19, 8:55pm

get the Lynx Its worth it. It is true that you'll only get 50 percent efficiency with 5 LPM.

But! Because of the triple mix you can manipulate the flame to get a narrow hot driving flame. I run the lynx center fire on my phantom with a OG 15 which puts out 6 LPM @ 9 PSI. And have no trouble working Boro. It may not be as fast as I'd like but then again I'm not melting through mandrels. I've made round beads up 25-mm no problem. I can do a set like this in about a hour and a half.

Plus if you get a lynx you won't out grow it until you can up grade to a phantom He-He.

Scott

CrazyAboutGlass · #24 2010-03-21, 4:47am

Scott - I love your beads! And the picture it outstanding!

We're going to stuggle along on our minor until we can afford to do it the right way (bummer!)

THANKS ALL!