Help! I can't apply a murrini for the life of me!

[ItsMeRoRo]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I put my clear on while the murrini is still basically cold and totally solid... preheat the murrini, spot-heat the bead, pick up the murrini with tweezers and stick it on the bead, give it a tiny push with my graphite paddle to set it, and then add a tiny dab of clear... just enough to cover the top... and slowly heat, push, heat, push, until it's flush with the bead.

What's the reason for the clear over it and do you do this every time? (hope its not to de-de-de of a question).

[Lea Zinke]

Hi Rachelle...

No, it's not required that you put clear over your murrini. In fact, I rarely do as I use mine more as part of my surface embellishment.

If I'm doing encased florals, however, I'll dot the stamen murrini in the center of the flower with clear to keep those little hairy stamens looking separate and blooming!

It all depends on the effect you're looking to achieve...

HTH,
Lea

[Kalera]

Not every time, but most times... it keeps the top of the murrini from imploding in on itself as I push it into the bead, because the pushing makes it want to turn into more of a barrel shape with a narrow top, and squish out on the sides. The clear keeps the top open, so there's less distortion. However, there are some murrini where the distortion is what I want, like if I'm going for a barnacle sort of look.

I feel like that description isn't going to help much, it's hard for me to explain without showing! Does it make any sense at all?

[lilacwind]

All great info... but how thick do you slice the murrini?
Thanks, Mimi

[Lea Zinke]

Rachelle: Just a quick note to add to my post about not using clear on top of my murrini -- the murrine won't implode on itself as long as you don't hit it directly with the flame. I use mine flush to the surface and it stays exactly where I put it with no distortion as long as I don't hit it with direct heat.

Mimi: Depending on the effect you're trying to achieve, the thickness of your slice depends. When I use mine as described above, I use almost wafer-thin slices.

If that still needs explaining, feel free to PM me!
Lea

[pam]

Kevan, it is possible you are putting too much clear at the beginning.

When you make the hole for the murini, you have to heat the murini, after placing it, so you can make certain the murini fills the entire hole before you add the clear. There are actually a couple of ways to do this. One is, as I said before, lightly heating the murini and tapping it a little at a time so it spreads to fill the hole. Never add enough heat to completely melt the murini, just enough to let it move ever so slightly. The other way is to push the edges of the hole toward the murini. You just have to make sure there are no holes left where air can get trapped. Once you have the murini in place with no holes for air, then you allow the murini to cool. Heat a small amount of clear and dab it onto the top of the murini. If your gather was hot enough, you should be able to pull the rod straight up and cut the trail of glass, with the flame, close to the bead. If your glass wasn't quite hot enough, and you can't pull the rod away without messing up your murini, then you will want to once again let everything cool and then place the rod at the point where it attaches to the clear into the flame - not the bead - and melt the rod off. If there is too much clear, then use tweezers to gently remove excess glass. Don't forget to keep the back side of the bead warm while you are working on the murini side!! Cool the bead again before heating up just the clear a little and gently, a little at a time, tap the clear to smooth out the edges. Hope this is a little clearer.

[ItsMeRoRo]

Thanks Lea and Kalera -- I think that makes sense to me. I am just getting into more complex canes and twisties and am really tempted to try some stamen murini too. I will give it a try and report back... I must torch tomorrow!!! LOL. Thanks so much for the help.

Lea - I still drool over your big hole floral beads on your card I got -- good bead porn!! xoxo

[Ever After]

I glue the murrini to a mandrel, heat the bead where I want to plunge it, poke it in, the glue burns off, I poke it in till its just barely above the surface of the bead, then I do apply a little bit of clear, heat it, press it flat with my blade, so that the clear covers the whole murrini, evenly, then melt in . I use fairly thin slices too.

[Lara]

Originally Posted by pam

I have a slightly different approach, as I don't have a diamond saw, LEA!!!!, I take a graphite rod the approximate diameter of the murini, or other tool that won't stick to the glass, and make an indention in the glass the approximate depth of the murini. Take the heated murini from the lip of my kiln and place it in the indention (after heating the indention slightly, of course). Apply a little heat and flatten the murini so that it fits the hole and then heat the whole area to fuse the glasses together. That's it.

DUH, Why didn't I think of that. I make eyes that way (learned from Sharon P's class). Thanks Pam!

[SunDoorBeads]

Too much great info I have always been afraid of murini and I have a little baggie I have never used. I will definitely try tomorrow and see if I can get this to work!

[Tutti-frutti]

Uh Lea, we will just send you our murrini cane for you to slice it up lol
Katja

[midniteburner]

I used to love to make beads with the presliced ones. I had no problems with the transparents.

Now the opaques were a whole different story. Everyone of them that had white would defricate. And I would get them on the bead fine. As I started to apply the heat, they would start to seperate between the colors.

What was I doing wrong?

thanks,

Sara

[Kevan]

This is the first time I've used murrinis. I made a bunch of them, but I've just been getting distorted big circles.

This is great information, can't wait to try it. Thanks you guys. You are the best!

[Kybeadmaker]

I leave my murrini a little longer. I flash it through the flame or leave it in the front of my kiln. After I heat the bead and flash the murrini, I push it where I want it using tweezers. Then I use my nippers to cut it down almost to the bead. I heat the murrini slowly and use my large,Maria made, brass tools...the one that looks like a srewdriver and gently push the murrini down with the side of the brass tool until the murrini is flush with the bead. Ta Da !

[tammydownunder]

I use a fair amount of murrini -both hand and pre-made. I apply them two ways. For the premade, I spot heat the base of my bead and, using my tungsten tweezers heat the murrini and stick it in place and cap it with clear. For handmade, I like to spot heat and, using the rod murrini, I push it into the base. Using my MOUTH, I hold the murrini cane and let it cool a bit, before I nip it as close as I can. The trick here, is to make sure you don't put the hot end into your mouth. Then, I cap it with the clear if I'm going for the "window" look.

[Humble newbie]

I just purchased some from Jet. As they are starbursts and tiny, what do I poke them with in the middle? My tungston pick seems like it would be too big. Thanks in advance!

[pam]

Laurie, I love that idea of glue!

[Ever After]

thanks Pam, I fumbled too much with the tweezers, by the time I got hold of the murrini the spot I heated to plunge, it had cooled too much. I had been using the glue method with cz's and thought hmmmmmm, lol
elmers or a gluestick work perfect.

[JetAge Studio]

Hi folks, since my murrini got mentioned in this thread, I thought I would put in my friendly two cents about how I work them. I think the problem with the smearing could be a couple of reasons. It's always a hazard to work them too hot, so that's my first thought. If they get too hot, everything is really liquid, so when you try to press them, they spread out too fast and the colors get muddled and distorted. My murrini are made with several layers of different colors of glass, when they're pressed, the layers get thin, really thin, and that is why sometimes you get some really great effects like seeing striations, or bleed through from the color underneath the top layer. Keeping them relatively cool with heat control and pressing is the key. My murrini are usually around 1/8" thick, by 2mm-5mm. Sometimes they're a little thicker, sometimes thinner, but they all work about the same way, using my methods. So, a 'thinner' chip is relative; some people prefer thinner chips to thicker ones... Another reason the colors may be smearing and not spreading properly is the base glass may be too hot, and the chip is getting plunged in to far. When that happens, the chip has a little 'wall' around it that prevents it from flaring and spreading. If this is the case, then it would probably smear when you try to press it down because the glass has no where to go but 'in' and not 'out'. When you place the chip on the bead base, it should be resting on the very surface (or just barely in). Then let that area cool a little (this is where I heat the rest of the bead) to let it 'set'. You want the base to be cool so the chip can be spot heated and not sink into the base as you gently press it next. Also, don't press to hard each time. It's a gradual thing to get it to be flush to the base. Remember, each pressing thins the layers of the murrini, so if you press to hard, the layers can get 'smeary' as well, so go lightly with them. I hope this helps anyone who works with my murrini. Also, just another note, for my pieces, I don't usually place a dot of clear on them. This also acts as a 'wall' for the murrini by keeping the top of the chip in place while the heat you apply melts everything all around it. It will spread, but it also gives a different effect. Try both ways to see what works or looks best to you.
I hope this makes sense!
Renee Wiggins

[Humble newbie]

Thanks Renee!

[LyndaJ]

Originally Posted by midniteburner

Now the opaques were a whole different story. Everyone of them that had white would defricate. And I would get them on the bead fine. As I started to apply the heat, they would start to seperate between the colors.

What was I doing wrong?

thanks,

Sara

I've read (but I don't remember where...) that the white that's used in commercial murrini is different from regular flameworking white, and does tend to devitrify. The one's that did that would probably be better off with a cap of clear on them before they get heated.

[Kevan]

Success! Success!

Thank you everyone and thanks Renee for the tutorial.

I went with no clear glass and it worked great. I'll post a pic later to prove it!!

[JetAge Studio]

Yay Kevan!!! I cant wait to see your creation! And, you're welcome for the tut....and thank YOU!!

[Kevan]

Darn, there's a crack right up the middle. Must be from encasing the translucent ivory. I'll take a picture anyway, it was a pretty bead.

[Kevan]

[Lara]

Pretty Kevan.

[JetAge Studio]

Yeah Kevan, that's a nice one, and such a bummer it cracked!! I'm so sorry!
Truth be told, I once placed 12, yes TWELVE super tiny murrini on a focal bead that ended up cracking straight down the middle...I kind of suspect a new color I used as a bead base as being the culprit, but darn it anyway! That sux.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience!

[JetAge Studio]

Ok, I would just like to share a new bead I just recently posted in the gallery, and it also illustrates the 'thinning' of the murrini glass as it gets pressed.


This is a multi-stage murrini I have been developing, which consists of an original cane, then used in a second set-up along with a new core cane to make an ornate murrini. I now know why you don't usually see this kind of cane/murrini as it took FOREVER to make!

Anyway, if you look at the murrini, you can see there is some white over the red in the petals but is very thin and milky...well, consider this was a solid white layer in the original cane that was pulled and then stretched twice and is now a really wispy white over the red. The red, which is a layer down in the murrini (under the white) is now the dominate color because it is slightly more condensed because of where it sits in the layers...however, you then see the black core peaking through the red and white... and that's under the red layer! So, the red is now semi-opaque because it too is pulled thin so the black underneath shows just a little...so when the murrini is placed on the bead and then pressed, this further thins the colors and creates a fascinating effect that shows most of the layers through to the top...ok, maybe this is too much information. I'm just trying to illustrate that construction (of the murrini), viscosity and heat control has a lot to do with how these elements work.
Sometimes when I make this kind of murrini, I kind of think of it as a really nice baklava with super thin layers of Filo dough...at first when you make it, the dough isn't translucent, but when it's cooked, you can usually see the inner goodness peeking through the wafer thin layers of buttered dough! Oh, the layers! Ok, maybe I'm hungry! I know, I'm rambling!

[Libby L.]

Ramble on Renee!! All information is good information. I love the bead by the way.

[Libby L.]

Ohh I should also post my beautiful murrini that was in my sisters collection.
It's part of a larger piece from Loren Stump.
I also posted this in the Gallery.