Devardi glass - Page 3

Carolyn M · #61 2010-03-06, 8:28am

I wasn't criticising your beads, I was saying I don't like to make beads that you can't melt into a smooth, even shape, round, pressed whatever. Since those are the beads that sell for me I need a dichro that will stand up to a fair amount of heat. Sorry if it came of as dissing your work, but frankly I've tried a lot of dichro over the years and it has taken me a long time to find consistently good product. To me it is worth the price

pam · #62 2010-03-06, 8:35am

Jim, I believe that Pat Frantz has a video out that will teach you to use dichro without burning it. She's a real expert. Also, please remember that tearing down another company is not a good way to promote your own agenda. CBS is a great company that has supplied the lampworking and glassblowing community for many years with first quality product. Their coatings are known and used successfully worldwide on many types of glass.

HannahRachel · #63 2010-03-06, 8:44am

As always, you are a voice of reason, Pam.

Since we're talking dicro, the only stuff I've ever really been able to manage is the fused stuff that Arrow Springs has, and it just so happens they are having a sale on their scraps right now. I like to just jam it onto my bead, encase and then melt the heck out of everything - I can't do that with any other dicro I've tried.

In terms of Devardi, I was gifted with a few scraps and based on what I'd heard about the compatibility issues I didn't really work that hard with them. I made a base bead of scrap Moretti clear and then covered with the Devardi and then shaped and I was pleased how they turned out since the colors did the same stuff as Moretti Dark Ivory. But a single color bead? Not going to happen often around here, so I didn't purchase.

baby firefly · #64 2010-03-06, 8:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolyn M

I wasn't criticising your beads, I was saying I don't like to make beads that you can't melt into a smooth, even shape, round, pressed whatever. Since those are the beads that sell for me I need a dichro that will stand up to a fair amount of heat. Sorry if it came of as dissing your work, but frankly I've tried a lot of dichro over the years and it has taken me a long time to find consistently good product. To me it is worth the price

I said I was unemployed, not stupid. There's a way to say things in a tactful manner. You could've tried that right off the bat.

Pam, I don't know what you think Jims hidden agenda is, he is just telling you his experience with the dichro he's used. This is people talking about their "experiences" If anyone knows where I could find the icon of the dead horse with his legs up in the air that Shawnette used in one of her posts, please let me know where to find it....................

chrissij · #65 2010-03-06, 8:48am

I understood what Carolyn was saying, but then I know HER to be a NICE person...

Kym · #66 2010-03-06, 9:12am

Whoo, things are getting a bit frosty in here.

Jim is the fairest, sweetest and the most charming guy I know and if he said he had some issues with dichro, then he had some issues. Whether or not anyone had issues or not, is besides the point as he was talking about his experience. To assume an agenda appears quite rude to me but perhaps not everyone has the same benchmark.

Baby Firefly has always been an upbeat, enthusiastic poster and its a shame to see her trodden on.

Kym

baby firefly · #67 2010-03-06, 9:40am

Kym, thank you, from the bottom of my heart

J&M · #68 2010-03-06, 10:35am

"Voice of reason"? Pfffffft. I agree with Kym. To assume an agenda appears quite rude to me too. Jim didn't "tear down another company"! Good grief... (it seems you are followed wherever you post now). All Drafly was doing was voicing his opinion here, nothing more. It seems you can't even do that now without a bead police patrolman/patrolwoman coming down on you.

Can't we ever have a discussion about this glass without someone coming on board and bashing someone else? Please?????

Jack

Kalera · #69 2010-03-06, 10:46am

I don't get where Carolyn was bashing anyone when she said she doesn't like to make lumpy, bumpy beads, so she needs a dichro she can't melt smooth. I make lumpy, bumpy beads on purpose, and I certainly wasn't offended. It was just a statement of fact about how she likes to work and what her needs are for glass.

lunamoonshadow · #70 2010-03-06, 11:48am

Firefly, no one bashed your beads (really)--there's plenty of conversation in the OTHER thread about the dichro not encasing well if you want to do "deep, smooth" type encasement vs. beads with TEXTURE--I had major issues with it myself. I've had issues with *other* brands being "shattery"/explosive as well, so I'm not just bashing one brand vs. another, or defending one vs. another either. I like my dichro to be user-friendly & not turn to ash before I can get clear over it, & not turn to ash when I re-heat the bead...& also not to shatter into bits while I'm trying to apply it to the bead....I'm not fussy much

(and yet, I'll work with exploding rods like vetro honey crunch...go figure

)

Now, about those little "crystals"....I'm wondering how they'd look *inside* something "not cooked"...you know, like in a "Tink-globe" or sealed in a clear vessel (glue the cork in so they couldn't escape) I haven't seen them....so it's just a thought--are they *really* sparkly before they're melted into ash?

'cause I love the look of dichro--even just in the "raw"--I've got a couple of crystalflipz stringers from a trade & I haven't melted them just 'cause they're soooo pretty--I just look at them!!!

Drafly · #71 2010-03-06, 12:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

Jim, I believe that Pat Frantz has a video out that will teach you to use dichro without burning it. She's a real expert. Also, please remember that tearing down another company is not a good way to promote your own agenda. CBS is a great company that has supplied the lampworking and glassblowing community for many years with first quality product. Their coatings are known and used successfully worldwide on many types of glass.

Pam, I am familiar with Pat Frantz's video. I have used and sold most of CBS's dicro and I am using it correctly. Even the most experienced lampworkers, at times, have problems with some of the glass manufactured.
CBS is a great company and makes some of the best dicro available and, in no way was I trying to tear any company down. I am in no way promoting any agenda here. My wife, in her shop has only sold CBS dichroic.
So, how am I promoting anything?
I knew not to post this. I know it is a slow time on the forums, and usually around Feb. or March, arguments start on this forum. It seems that the most qualified senior members usually initate them. I am on this forum to learn. I have met and enjoyed the company of many on this forum. I also have too much going on in my life, currently, to answer these petty posts. Many of us, Pam, have found out it is best just to ignore you and several others.
Regards, Jim

Drafly · #72 2010-03-06, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam

Jim, I believe that Pat Frantz has a video out that will teach you to use dichro without burning it. She's a real expert. Also, please remember that tearing down another company is not a good way to promote your own agenda. CBS is a great company that has supplied the lampworking and glassblowing community for many years with first quality product. Their coatings are known and used successfully worldwide on many types of glass.

By the way, I cannot comment about the Devardi dichro. I have a small amount of it, but have not had the time to test it. So, where is my adjenda?
Jim

baby firefly · #73 2010-03-06, 12:34pm

luna, monarae has a post in the other thread and she's onto something that's working for her with the dichro balls. I love your idea of putting them in something !!! Cool ...and I can tell you yes, they are amazingly sparkly little things. I'm looking at them as I type this. Thanks for tossing that out there.....

tracidawn78 · #74 2010-03-06, 1:01pm

Whoa, this got nasty quick!

As far as other types of dichro, and admittedly I don't know which coatings are on these, but the best dichro I've found comes from Arrow Springs, Rocio, and Dichro Magic's hotstix. They are much more expensive than Devardi's dichro, but I understand why. As with any dichro, it much be worked cool and there will be some scumming and bubbles to pick off, but not enough to make it a hassle. I'm not calling anyone's beads substandard at all, who am I to judge? I just know what works for me, I know the way I torch, and I know the types of beads I like to make, and the Devardi dichro product is no good for me. Maybe it lends itself to other styles, but not for me whatsoever.

I want my dichro to be very glittery, shiny, and full of color. When I ordered, Devardi didn't offer dichro on clear (other than the faceted balls). You could only choose from black, white, and yellow (I believe). The dichro I buy comes on clear, so you can layer it over any other color for great color blends.

I want my dichro to look like this, and from what I've found with my Devardi experience, this isn't possible.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/beadsbytraci/4104013597/ Dichro from Rocio
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beadsbytraci/4269721257/ Dichro from AS
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beadsbytraci/4402655651/ Dichro from Dichro Magic

pam · #75 2010-03-06, 1:41pm

First, let me say to baby firefly that I never said the words "hidden agenda", which has a bad connotation, you did. I used the word agenda, and I would assume that everyone that comes here has an agenda of some kind, either to learn or teach or sell their wares or just for friendly conversation. All of those things are reasons for coming here, or "agendas".

Jim appears to be a very nice guy, but from the beginning he has seemed to me to that one of his agendas is encouraging people to use Devardi glass. Putting down CBS in an effort to make the Devardi dichro more palatable just is not nice.

Now, let me apologize for posting in this thread. I didn't realize that there were two threads that normal members were not welcome to post in regarding Devardi glass.

BY DRAYFLY: "I knew not to post this. I know it is a slow time on the forums, and usually around Feb. or March, arguments start on this forum. It seems that the most qualified senior members usually initate them. I am on this forum to learn. I have met and enjoyed the company of many on this forum. I also have too much going on in my life, currently, to answer these petty posts. Many of us, Pam, have found out it is best just to ignore you and several others."

Again, Jim, I was suggesting that you learn from Pat's video how to work with dichro glass, since it gives very precise information, so that you wouldn't end up with the problems you discussed. One way or the other I hope you figure out what your problem is, whether you watch the video or not. She is really a great person and a real expert on dichro.

With regard to the rest of your post, there is an ignore button somewhere that you can use to keep from reading posts that do not agree with your "agenda". Sorry you took offense at what I said.

J&M · #76 2010-03-06, 2:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracidawn78

As far as other types of dichro, and admittedly I don't know which coatings are on these, but the best dichro I've found comes from Arrow Springs, Rocio, and Dichro Magic's hotstix.

Is there one dichro that's your favorite out of those three?

tracidawn78 · #77 2010-03-06, 4:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by J&M

Is there one dichro that's your favorite out of those three?

Man, it's really just depends on what I'm doing, but if I had to choose only 1 and be just limited to that, I think I'd pick the dichro from AS. The only problem is ordering dichro on their site is kind of a bitch because I can't tell what is what

I picked up my stuff in person last summer, so I was able to get exactly what I want. I've written them to see if I can reorder, and they weren't sure what dichro I was talking about either. I'm going to send them the little nubs of what I have left to see if they can locate it for me.

Really though, dichro from all 3 places are fabulous.

glassactcc · #78 2010-03-06, 4:15pm

Well, I made a bead with the black crushed dichro, and while it looked great for awhile, by the time I finished the bead it was pretty much gone. I made a HUGE bead and made it like I always do, with a smooth surface so I'm sure it was the length of time in the heat. I'm sure there are uses for this dichro, but not for the type of beads that I make.

tracidawn78 · #79 2010-03-06, 4:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassactcc

Well, I made a bead with the black crushed dichro, and while it looked great for awhile, by the time I finished the bead it was pretty much gone. I made a HUGE bead and made it like I always do, with a smooth surface so I'm sure it was the length of time in the heat. I'm sure there are uses for this dichro, but not for the type of beads that I make.

Oh, I forgot about that stuff! I was able to get one semi-decent bead out of that. I gave up on shaping it because I didn't want to lose any more of the glitter and color that I already had, so I just rounded it off into a barrel. It was the best I could get out of it. The chunks were so big that I couldn't just roll it in like frit, so it was really a scene over here trying to get chunks to attach to it and not fry off the dichro. Of the 3 dichro products I bought of theirs, this is the best one, but still not great.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/beadsby...7622680064139/

ETA: Did you try the faceted chunks yet?

glassactcc · #80 2010-03-06, 4:52pm

Oh, that looks way better than mine. I covered mine up with lots of flowers, vines and leaves. I made it for a handle for a tungsten rod so that's why I tried the dichro. No loss if it didn't work out.

Actually, I accidentally purchased the crushed dichro instead of the faceted beads. My mistake but I'll see when I get them. I am suspecting as you said, the same thing will happen with those. They will burn out. Or, maybe if you put them very deep in a large bead, they might work.

Kym · #81 2010-03-06, 5:12pm

I have used dichro from CBS, from Rocio, from places now that I can't remember, from Devardi. I have a couple of those rods too with dichro down the side and they are hopeless for my applications but then someone somewhere probably used them in a better app.
Most of the dichro seems to be quite thick so then you have to fool around melting it smooth and if you want a small bead, getting enough on without overloading can be problematic. Any of it will scum given too much heat or not carefully covered with clear etc.
The Devardi is very thin and it would be nice if they could get it on a clear background. Being thin makes it easy to apply, very easy like using dichro stringer but it also means the coating is thin and easy to burn out.
I think once Daniel and Natasha manage to get it on a clear background, it may have more application. I wouldn't mind paying quite a bit more for it if they could get it in a thicker coating as it is very shiny and attractive.
On a clear background it could be added last and left raised like a ribbon, could be interesting.

Cheers
Kym

CO_Phantom · #82 2010-03-06, 7:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracidawn78

http://www.flickr.com/photos/beadsby...7622680064139/

That bead turned out nicely!

I ordered the faceted dichro thingies because I didn't want to have some chunks with the dichro down and some with the dichro up. But it looks like you managed to keep the dichro pretty on that one!

What torches are you all using with your dichro? Would it be possible to use the devardi dichro with a cooler torch, like a HH and get it to stay shiny and pretty inside a shaped/pressed/smooth bead? (Just throwing ideas out there).

As far as other dichros go, there are good batches and bad batches. Remember, Cynthia, the dichro in your class at the Mandrel where the color all burnt out to ash for all of us? Donna sequestered it all and sent it back. I'm not saying I won't ever buy that type of glass again, just remember some are just bad batches.

-Amy

lunamoonshadow · #83 2010-03-06, 10:47pm

I *think* Nikki uses the rainbow "dichro on a rod of glass" for her rainbow sheeps wool...but I'm not 100% positive....so....there *is* an application for everything!

DesertDreamer · #84 2010-03-06, 10:57pm

I thought Rocio also sold CBS dichro???

Arrow Springs' is definitely CBS, as is dichro from Carol & Monty (http://www.dichroicinc.com/ whose site appears to be down at the moment). I've been using CBS dichro in various forms for about 12 years now. There have been a few quality control issues in the past, but they were more about the glass than the coating. There was a batch of clear thin colors maybe...6-7 years ago that bubbled on the edges no matter what I tried, and I learned that some others had trouble as well. I finally soaked them all in alcohol for a week then re-slumped them ever so slightly, and they came out much better. I also find the regular thickness dichro to be more difficult to use without scumming. And there was an early batch of salmon on black that was horrible.

Austin Thin Films (Dichro Magic), OTOH, has driven me to distraction more often than not. I know a lot of fusers who love the stuff, but for lampwork I've never had much luck with it. Likely user error, but I gave up and went back to CBS.

I guess I need to score some Devardi dichro soon so I can check it out. The colors sure look good.

ETA to CO Phantom....a HH or other cooler torch is definitely desirable when working with dichro, but it's NOT impossible at all with a hotter torch. When I first tried dichro (on a Minor) I had a lot of frustrations. I pulled out my HH, and worked side-by-side for a while...making most of the bead on the Minor, then going to the HH to appy and encase the dichro. After several months I gained a better sense of how to apply the dichro, and now I use a Midrange exclusively.

CO_Phantom · #85 2010-03-06, 11:16pm

I was specifically asking about using a HH for this Devardi dichro for a smooth surface bead, not other brands of dichro. I was under the assumption everyone who had tried the Devardi dichro and was having it burn out was on at least a minor or a miniCC or something bigger, and threw out there that maybe working it on a HH would be more successful. Not saying people should switch to a HH just to work cheaper dichro. Not saying Devardi can't be successfully worked on anything but a HH.

I am on a miniCC and have only had issues with that crappy batch of dichro we had in Cynthia's class.

-Amy

J&M · #86 2010-03-10, 1:24am

Here's a piece that has Devardi dichro in it.

I only lost some of it in a few spots...

Jack

Drafly · #87 2010-03-10, 7:17am

Jack, Great bead. Very different. Jim

J&M · #88 2010-03-10, 8:15am

Thanks Jim!

Jack

glassactcc · #89 2010-03-10, 8:37am

There was one color of dichro in the class at Arrow Springs that was burining out. It was a pink color. Interestingly enough, when I purchased the dichro I always buy at CRLoo, there was that same pink color in my scrap bag. It burned out on me also. I returned all of the pink for other colors which worked fine as always. Never did figure out why this one color had issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO_Phantom

I am on a miniCC and have only had issues with that crappy batch of dichro we had in Cynthia's class.

-Amy

lunamoonshadow · #90 2010-03-10, 1:53pm

That's a nice bead Jack--if I can figure out how to get it to do that, I'll be happy.