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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2007-07-24, 2:10pm
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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encasing issues
Hi everyone. I'm practicing encasing lately with terrible results. It's not so much the bubbles that are bugging me but I always seem to smoosh the base bead and decorations all to heck. I try to keep my base bead cool but I still smoosh the heck out of em when I try to melt the clear smooth around the bead. I'm on a HH. What am I doing wrong?
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2007-07-24, 2:15pm
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Know-it-all Megalomaniac
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Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 6,282
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You're gonna hate to hear this, but practice practice practice.
Either you're not keeping the base bead cool enough, or you're
not getting the clear glass hot enough, or any number of factors in between.
I still have some problems with encasing - some days it works for me
and some days not so good. I just found that the more I did it, the
better I got.
Are you encasing by wrapping the rod around the bead
or by heating the clear and striping it from hole to hole?
If you're doing it one way - try the other way and see if it helps.
I find that the rod wrapping method works best for me, but
other folks get more bubbles with that method.
Check the tutorials section - I think Moth had a tutorial on encasing with
stringers somewhere in there.
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2007-07-24, 2:36pm
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Entropy increasing....
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: In a box of paints
Posts: 25,098
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I have my own encasing issues. I'm seeing someone for it. Group therapy is part of the treatment.....
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"I am an artist… I am here to live out loud." Emile Zola
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2007-07-24, 3:03pm
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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Looks like I found the right group for therapy. Can I join ya all? lol
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2007-07-24, 3:29pm
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Lampwork Meditator
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Join Date: Mar 15, 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 286
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This was going to be my question exactly! I tried encasing two florals a few days ago and got mush. I was piling the clear on the middle of the bead pretty high, then melting all over. Disaster. Then I melted some clear directly over the flower and then added more all over the bead. Better, but nothing worth showing.
I'm going to look for that tutorial...
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Susie Kline
Roselle, IL
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Carlisle mini cc with concentrator
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2007-07-24, 4:32pm
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Lampwork Meditator
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Join Date: Mar 15, 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 286
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OK, I found some links on WetCanvas. Hope they help!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...hlight=bicones
http://www.wetcanvas.com/Articles2/24464/484/index.php
I'm not feeling great, looks like it's gonna storm, but I want to try this tonight! lol Gotta get everyone through dinner and then torch!
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Susie Kline
Roselle, IL
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Carlisle mini cc with concentrator
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2007-07-24, 5:01pm
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She better not sell these
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: Why, AZ... Really, that is the name of the town...
Posts: 455
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Here is how my encasing finally started to make some progress.
Double dip your mandrel. You will probably crack your bead and this will keep it from sticking to your mandrel if that happens. (Or, do what I do, get the bead good and hot and dunk it in some water to crack it off if it sticks to your mandrel)
Make a white bead. White is very soft and melts quick, so if you can work on white, you will be able to work on just about anything. You might put some simple easy quick decoration on the white. That way you will be able to see if you are dragging your design. Cool the bead to the point of being afraid it might crack. If it does crack, who cares, it is a practice bead, just melt it and cool it again.
Now, use a colored transparent to encase it with. Light blues, purples and greens work well, because they change color with heat. You will be able to see just how hot your encasing glass is. When your encasing is working, feel how much pressure you are using, or not using is more likely. Pay attention to how the glass feels as it is going on the bead. Look at how much of your white bead shows heat. When it works, make more, write down notes, ask yourself questions, and then... make some more encased beads.
I know it sounds funny, but it really helps to be able to see the glass change with the heat, and the colored transparents have similar consistency to clear.
I hope this helps, nobody else ever suggests it, so I must be the only one that learned this way, but it is what cracked the "encasing hump" for me.
If you find that you are making no progress at all and start to get frustrated, quit. Leave it alone for a day or two. Amazingly enough, when you return to try it again, it will probably be better. Our minds have a tendency to work things out when we aren't paying attention.
Good luck and show your successes!
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Twiggy
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#T53
"I love making lampwork beads, one at a time, with a Cricket or Minnnow burner on 5LPM oxycons".
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2007-07-24, 5:29pm
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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Wonderful. I did one half assed sort of encasement tonight! An improvement on my last thats for sure. lol. Not sure if I will post it or not, I tried to put a bubble in the middle of a dot. Kind of looks like a volcano ready to erupt but I encased it!! lol Thanks guys
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2007-07-24, 7:14pm
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She better not sell these
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: Why, AZ... Really, that is the name of the town...
Posts: 455
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Super! Bubbles are fun, a whole other subject, but they can be fun.
As long as you are learning and having fun, that is all that counts!
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Twiggy
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#T53
"I love making lampwork beads, one at a time, with a Cricket or Minnnow burner on 5LPM oxycons".
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2007-07-24, 8:04pm
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Know-it-all Megalomaniac
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Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzie
Wonderful. I did one half assed sort of encasement tonight! An improvement on my last thats for sure. lol. Not sure if I will post it or not, I tried to put a bubble in the middle of a dot. Kind of looks like a volcano ready to erupt but I encased it!! lol Thanks guys
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Don't be afraid to post pictures - sometimes it can really help others to
pinpoint what you are doing (or not doing) wrong.
We all started out with class A wonky ass beads - every one of us.
No lampworker in their right mind would make fun of you.
We've all been there.
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2007-07-24, 9:31pm
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She better not sell these
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: Why, AZ... Really, that is the name of the town...
Posts: 455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen Hardy
Don't be afraid to post pictures - sometimes it can really help others to
pinpoint what you are doing (or not doing) wrong.
We all started out with class A wonky ass beads - every one of us.
No lampworker in their right mind would make fun of you.
We've all been there.
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Karen is exactly right!
(and the honest lampworkers will admit that they still make a wonky once in awhile, I just turn them into fish and hearts and "sculpted" beads...) Also, the more time you spend sitting at your torch, the better you will be at saving a wonky and catching your bead before it gets too wonky. It is almost a feeling thing, and one day you will be sitting there and you will feel it. I still get all goosepimply when a bead "seats" itself into that wonderfully round shape.
I took a look through my old pics for some beginning encasing pictures and didn't find any, I am afraid I probably deleted them all or I would post them for you. Some were actually quite humorous, but it didn't feel very funny at the time
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Twiggy
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#T53
"I love making lampwork beads, one at a time, with a Cricket or Minnnow burner on 5LPM oxycons".
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2007-07-24, 10:19pm
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I'm meeeeelting
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Join Date: May 27, 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,236
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My encasing ability is still pretty hit and miss. Thinking about the ones that came out best, I think the trick was heating the clear until it's very hot and melty, applying it in one ring around the bead and then melting it over the bead VERY VERY slowly, stopping to cool the bead any time the inside bead started to glow red the tiniest bit. It's extremely easy to get it too hot and create a hideous mess.
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2007-07-24, 10:29pm
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CA Queen Bitch
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Hermiston, Oregon
Posts: 11,258
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I love to encase! My fav method is putting thin overlapping swipes across the bead from left to right. I do my big focals that way. Just get a good size glob melted before you begin swiping.
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Suzy Q...... as in Quick
Being unstable and bitchy is all part of my mystique.
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Peek A Boo!
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2007-07-25, 3:27am
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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Ok as soon as I get home from work tonight I'll post my volcano. Remember I've been torching for only two weeks. lol. Excuses Excuses.
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2007-07-25, 3:38am
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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encasing practice volcano's and colorful turd collection. lol
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2007-07-25, 1:37pm
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Know-it-all Megalomaniac
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Join Date: Oct 22, 2005
Location: Californication
Posts: 6,282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anzie
encasing practice volcano's and colorful turd collection. lol
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Okay - see the blue bead at the beginning?
The reason it looks that way is you are probably leaving
very skinny thin areas between the clear as you wind it around.
The clear melts and as it flattens, it "pulls" the colored glass up between
it and causes that effect.
The remedy for that is to make sure that the clear is really hot, make sure
that the NEXT clear stripe OVERLAPS slightly with the previous stripe, and
when you melt the glass in - you melt it from the center out to the edges
so any trapped air gets pushed out.
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2007-07-25, 9:16pm
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She better not sell these
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: Why, AZ... Really, that is the name of the town...
Posts: 455
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Anzie,
Your ends look great! That was something I had a hard time with.
What type of torch are you using? Are you using stringer or are you using straight from the rod to encase?
You might try using bigger or smaller stringer to encase with to help you keep from getting gaps between your clear. I find that the thicker stringer stays hot a little longer and is easier to control than the thinner, but your base bead heats up a little more. I have taken big beads out of the flame and cooled them in the middle of encasing because they got too hot.
If you are on a HH or Fireworks, you have a nice big bushy flame, and that tends to heat the base bead a little more, but using a thicker stringer is easier with the bushy flame.
I think they look great for a beginner, it takes time to know where to keep your bead in the flame. I work on the right hand side of the flame and keep the bead under the flame with the encasing glass going through the flame.
I have some beads here somewhere that look just like yours. Keep them, you will get a big grin down the road.
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Twiggy
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#T53
"I love making lampwork beads, one at a time, with a Cricket or Minnnow burner on 5LPM oxycons".
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2007-07-25, 9:19pm
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Entropy increasing....
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: In a box of paints
Posts: 25,098
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Beautiful bead, Suzy.
I had three big focals come out of the kiln with cracks. Lauscha clear. Booooooo.
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"I am an artist… I am here to live out loud." Emile Zola
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2007-07-26, 4:02am
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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Suzy that bread is beautiful! I'll get there. lol. Twiggy I work really hard on my ends, and trying not to get that wonky thing going.
I use a HH by the way and I love the little fella. It's not as intimidating as I thought it would be. Turn the valve and strike the sparker, woosh. lol
I don't know the different terminology for the rod sizes yet. Stringer is that really thin stuff you make yourself isn't it? Man if I use the stuff I've been pulling it would take all night to encase the bead. I think I'm pulling them too thin. And a noodle? I take it a rod is just the regular glass rod? I'll try the sideways swippy thing next then the stringer thing. And I'll make sure I post my results for you guys to help me with my problems
ok stringer and overlap the edges. Double dip mandrel, "I've been lucky so far and not cracked any bead release". Let my bead cool a bit more before applying the clear, and try a colored transparent over solid base. Gotcha. lol.
You guys have been great. Thanks!
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2007-07-26, 6:27am
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Spectrum rulz
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 151
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encasing
Encasing was my "to die for" thing I wanted to achieve when I started making beads. I had 1 class to start with and after that I was on my own with many frustrating months - did I mention months of how much PPP is enough PPP. I didnt jump for 1 technique to another cause this was the biggie. So on the journey along the way this is what I discovered and this works for me. First I was on a HH and now I am on a CC. There really is a fine balance between too cold to start adding the clear and its only something you will know by doing it. Another thing I learnt so you dont smudge your flowers or your base bead is to spot encase all your flowers. What I do now is mostly 2 layer 5 dot flowers and rose swirls with encased stringer. When I add my rose swirls I encase them straight away with clear stringer. I add my grouping of 5 dots first with white and then with a colour sometimes 2 colours to get the colour I want then I spot case all the dots with a thick clear dot. You need to melt the dots down onto your flowers but take the bead back out of the flame and do it slowly if the base bead starts to glow you are too hot you need to be able to see your flower clearly at all times. If you get it too hot it will swirl out of shape. I then add either another 5 dots of 3 dots over the top of the first dots in white first then in colours. Melt these down into your bead again out in the back flame not up close as you will loose the shape of the flower. When they are all melted in take the bead out of the flame and let everything cool off and firm up. Next you are going to plunge your centre. I use a 1/16th mandrel to plunge I think it gives a nice size bubble. You need to heat the whole flower take out of the flame and wait for the intense orange glow to subside before you plunge, plunge in deep push the 3 layers of dots down to make the centre of the flower. After you plunge each flower you need to take the bead back into the flame for a few twirls so it doesnt loose too much heat. Now melt a probably about the size of a pea and push that into the top of your flower this should also cover all your top dots of your flower if it doesnt spot encase the rest of the flower. So now all your flowers are already encased and you cant pull them out of shape while you do the rest of your encasing. So now all you have left are the spaces in between your flowers to encase. I just keep melting blobs and pushing them into the remaining spacers. I use a thick clear stringer to do around the mandrel. So now it sort of looks a bit like a porcipine. I melt in each point and flatten it with my marver and access if any spaces need some more glass which I add from stringer. So now the fun begins of melting it all in. Again do this out in the back flame. If your flowers start to disappear its all getting too hot and take it out of the flame to cool. If you can see your flowers at all times you can see they are not distorting. Just keep melting until it is nice and smooth. If your ends arent puckered I add a circle around the mandrel about 3mm away from the mandrel with clear stringer when this is melted it will form the pucker. Anyhow that is just how I do them. Probably after you get it down like this you can afford to melt it a bit hotter but to start with I think it is the way to go.
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2007-07-26, 6:29am
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Spectrum rulz
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2005
Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 151
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encasing
Obviously I dont know how to add pics here I will have another go.
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2007-07-26, 10:01am
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Does that shed?
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Join Date: Jul 08, 2007
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrywashere
Obviously I dont know how to add pics here I will have another go.
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Beautiful beads and thank you for your tips. I"m going to try everything you folks give me and find out what works for me. Thanks so much.
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2007-07-26, 11:21am
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CA Queen Bitch
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Hermiston, Oregon
Posts: 11,258
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Thank you!!
BEAUTIFUL set Christine!!
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Suzy Q...... as in Quick
Being unstable and bitchy is all part of my mystique.
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Peek A Boo!
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2007-07-26, 12:33pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Apr 15, 2007
Location: Central N.J.
Posts: 322
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You all are so wonderful! i have been making beads for a few months but only got my own set up last month. I just read this thread and learned so much now if only my brain can grab hold of the info and transfer it to my hand!!! I will let you see if I get anyhting worth looking at this weekend.
debi
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2007-07-26, 12:56pm
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She better not sell these
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Join Date: Oct 07, 2006
Location: Why, AZ... Really, that is the name of the town...
Posts: 455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrywashere
Obviously I dont know how to add pics here I will have another go.
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Florals to die for! Those extra layers are worth it! Your barrels are empeccable, I love the shiny sparkly effect your bubbles give your beads. Georgous!
Drooooooooooollll.....
Here are some of my recent encased, but I use the "around the world method" and they look very different from the spot encase method. Yes, I get a few bubbles, they aren't the end of the world, they don't bother me unless they are huge or there are tons of them. I have been lampworking since November 2006, so I remember very well the pain you are going through. BUT, when it clicks, you will have sooooo much fun!!!:
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Twiggy
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#T53
"I love making lampwork beads, one at a time, with a Cricket or Minnnow burner on 5LPM oxycons".
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