Has anyone tried pickling clear glass?

[Mitosis Glass]

Since people are posting about their results here, could you also share what it is you are using for pickling? The vinegar and salt solution, the Sparex, the pool stuff, which? I'd like to try it myself and if the vinegar and salt work as well as the other things then I'd like to try that first, but only if it's not a complete waste of time.

[Polgarra]

I used vinegar and water mix (no salt). I thought it worked great. It took a Long time to do about 80% of the glass, then wipe it off and label all the glass.

I liked that I could pour it down the drain after wards.

[Beadanna]

It seems you can neutralize the Sodium bisulphate with baking soda - Sodium bicarbonate to make for safe disposal.

[Larry Scott]

I had an email the other day about this. Here is my reply:

The instructions on the package of pickle makes a solution that is great for cleaning scale off soldered silver, but is way stronger that is necessary for cleaning glass. I use a solution that is 1/4 strength or less.

I used to use a crock pot that was about 7 inches deep. I put the rods in standing up and after a couple of minutes I would turn them over to get the other half of the rod. The problem with the crock pot is that it takes forever and a day to get hot and to recover the heat after the cold rods have cooled the solution down.

These days I use a 14" Pyrex lasagna pan. I put the pan on a hot plate. The rods go in the pan with enough water to cover. (sounds like a cooking show....) Then I put in a table spoon or less of the pickle salt. Then I warm the whole thing up. It does not have to boil. I would guess the temperature should be 160-180 F.

The warm solution speeds up the cleaning. After a couple of minutes at temperature, I take the glass out and let it cool a bit before rinsing it in clean water.

You can use the solution over and over again until it is exhausted. To test, take a little of the solution in a bowl and add a bit of baking soda. If it fizzes, the solution is still good. When you are ready to dump the solution, add baking soda to neutralize it before putting it down the sink.

The pickling salt is actually Sodium bisulfate, which when dissolved in water produces a buffered sulfuric acid. The solution has a low ph so it is not dangerous, though it will eat a hole in clothing and will irritate you skin. Old clothes or apron and kitchen gloves... As the acid is used up more comes into solution, which is what buffering means, essentially.

The acid removes any metals that adhere to the surface during manufacture. It cleans out the scratches so they can melt cleanly and it removes oils and dust that have been attracted to glass. Glass, just sitting on the shelf, develops a low level of static electricity and over time attracts dust and oil. So the pickle will clean all that off. Of course, in storage in your studio, the glass will attract more dust and oil. So before using it, a quick wipe with alcohol will remove you home grown dust.

I clean all my glass with pickle. Clear, pastels, opaques. Everything. Every new shipment gets cleaned when it come into the studio.

Most people are most concerned with transparents and the clear. No amount of cleaning will make glass perfect. The trick to working clear is to turn up the oxygen just a bit and work further out in the flame. Near the torchhead, the flame is rich in propane which will reduce the glass causing it to fizz up or get smokey.
Further out the flame is rich on oxygen and hot. Folks in my classes who have had to most issues with working clear, are the ones who are working to close to the torchhead and with too little oxygen.

One other thing I do with all rods. The first time a rod goes into the flame, I heat the cut end and pull off a small amount of glass and discard it. When the glass is cut, with a nipper or especially with a saw, small cracks are created. These cracks turn into bubbles and scum. The natural perversity of things means that the scum is going to migrate to just the last place you want it to be.

----
I would add to this that vinegar is fine but is a weak acid and rapidly exhausted. Sodium bisufate, being a buffered acid, maintains a low ph with a longer life. People have told me they clean glass in Coke. Carbonated water is carbonic acid. Very weak and quickly used up or bubbled away. Coke is sticky.

[Donna J]

good info Larry, I'm going to save this- thank you.

[yellowbird]

Larry thank you

[Art of Hand]

Aww Larry, thank you SO much for your tips. I HATE using expensive glass, and went back to the normal Effettre clear a while back. I will use your tips to get the glass all sparkly! I have had reasonable good results cleaning a rod with vinegar already.
Kind regards

[KJJames]

Thanks Larry! Finally a use for the pickle I never used.

[redayh]

I pickled my transparent 96 coe glass last night. Tonight I'll be making beads. When it's all said and done I'll post pics for folks to see.

[FourTailsLampwork]

You know, this tip is going to make inventorying glass so much more attractive--I have to pull it all out and weigh it anyway, so I might as well give it a good cleaning! Thanks, all!

[glassactcc]

I swore I was NOT going to get sucked into this but now I think I'll try it. Ugggg...I have so much clear glass. I buy it by the case.

[Beadanna]

Now I need to find a pyrex lasagne dish and a twin burner. . . Oh and some Sodium bisulphate.

And I want to say 'thanks' to Pat for writing about it (http://frantznewsletter.com/?page_id=171) and to Jinx for starting the thread.

[Damselfly]

Thanks so much for this discussion! it's really great!

So if we go to Lowe's and get PH Down (since it's the same thing), does anyone know how much to add? Would it still be a tablespoon like Larry said? Or is the jewelers solution more concentrated?

[Pat]

Thanks for jumping in , Larry. I have used this cleaning method for my clear since I took his class. I use a griddle that I bought for 20 bucks and the large lasagna pan. It works great because it's long enuf to accommodate the whole rod. I take it out and put into a container of clear water. I also clean with alcohol and now dry with leather per Kimberly Affleck.

[betsymn]

I tried it last week (and yes the sparex was still good, because when I neutralized it with baking soda, it fizzed), and while it cleaned the glass, it did nothing about the scratches. In the past few months, I've bought SuperClear and Lauscha clear from 3 different vendors, and have the same problem with them all, lines of scratches that turn into air bubbles. It's really discouraging.

[dianeconroy]

Thank you, thank you Larry! You answered all the questions I had after I read this on Pat Frantz's Facebook. I think I am going to have to give it a try, so frustrated with clear right now I could start throwing the stuff, not that it would make it better, so I will try this instead, and turning down the torch. I had scummy lines before I switched torches, now I have scummy lines and little bubbles. I love the little bubbles with the brass frit, these bubbles not so much. Have I mentioned lately how much I love this site? Can almost always find a solution, you guys/gals are great!

[FourTailsLampwork]

This really turns cheap Moretti scummy clear into something similar to crystal clear. Not completely; there are still scratches, which as BEtsy said turn into bubbles, but OMG. I can save my spendy Aether for when I really want something *perfect*.

I used the Ace hardware pool Ph lowering acid -- checking to make sure it was indeed sodium bisulphate. I put a long 15" Pyrex dish right on my stove (I torch in my breakfast nook), opened the kitchen window and turned on the vent fan, and put the stove on low. (First time I have ever been grateful for having a nasty electric rangetop). Enough water to cover and a tablespoon of acid granules, and my glass was off and rockin'! I have a small table set up for inventory, so I just pulled stuff out, weighed it, then plopped it in the bowl ... and then went back to building my class website and preparing to teach next week. Next break I came back, pulled out the clean glass (nitrile gloves FTW!), rinsed it (layer of baking soda in sink in case), pulled out more glass and weighed it ..... I am looking forward to tomorrow when I will get some torch time!

For jewelry, I use salt and vinegar for light duty cleaning, but I am pleased to be reminded that the pool acid is basically Sparex. Sparex is spendy! For jewelry I would use the ratio for pickle--about a quarter cup in a pint of water. I use copper, though, so if this is too strong, reduce the amount.

[FourTailsLampwork]

Okay, Which Twin Had the Toni?

ONE of these beads was made with $60/lb Aether clear. Okay, $40/lb aether seconds. The rest were made with pickled Moretti 004. Mind you, both are fast point-and-shoot pictures. Both are the same set, just different perspectives.





One Of These Things Is Not Like The Others. So --- which of these beads was made with which glass?

[GinnyHampton]

Originally Posted by pierces*designs

***Wonders if my husband would realize if his ratty old jacket disappeared...***

He didn't know about the cat glass, so go for it

[redayh]

I don't know if this picture will help anyone, but this bead was made with some old school plain Moretti clear from 2006. There are a few little bubbles, but no scum. It's hard to tell from the photo because my skills aren't the best, but trust me when I say it's really, really clear. I was very impressed with the pickling.


This bead was made with some extremely scratched up System 96. This one has no bubbles and is pretty much perfectly clear. Once again, my photography skills don't show it off at it's best.

[rainygrrl]

Originally Posted by FourTailsLampwork

Okay, Which Twin Had the Toni?




One Of These Things Is Not Like The Others. So --- which of these beads was made with which glass?

And the answer is???

[Jinx Garza]

Thank you Larry! You and Patty both rock. In fact, big hugs to everyone who has shared their experiments and tips on this thread.

Jinx

[FourTailsLampwork]

Originally Posted by rainygrrl

And the answer is???

Honestly? I don't remember! I think that is a GOOD sign for the pickled clear

If you *pushed* me I would say the second from the left as you look at the picture, but frankly there are three without a single bubble, let alone scum.

[VivianLampwork]

I'm going to do this today!!! I have a bunch of clear that is terrible.

I think I'll heat the pyrex dish up in my oven rather than the stove top. My mom exploded a pyrex dish on my stove top once & it burned holes in my counter top. I think she put the dish on a hot eye, but I'm still a little scared to do it that way.

[FourTailsLampwork]

I would be a little concerned about the fumes contaminating your oven, Vic. I'm hunting for a hot plate from a thrift store or Freecycle, because I don't even like using the stove. On your lowest heat setting it shoul be fine. Keep the ventilation going, even though this is low acid.

[ruthmartin]

Originally Posted by VivianLampwork

I'm going to do this today!!! I have a bunch of clear that is terrible.

I think I'll heat the pyrex dish up in my oven rather than the stove top. My mom exploded a pyrex dish on my stove top once & it burned holes in my counter top. I think she put the dish on a hot eye, but I'm still a little scared to do it that way.

When Pyrex was made by Corning, it was made from boro. Now, Pyrex made in the US is made from soda-lime glass. Pyrex made in Europe is still made from boro. Using soda-lime Pyrex at 160 degrees will probably be fine but using it at higher heat and then introducing cold liquids may cause an explosion.

Ruth

[houptdavid]

Originally Posted by ruthmartin

When Pyrex was made by Corning, it was made from boro. Now, Pyrex made in the US is made from soda-lime glass. Pyrex made in Europe is still made from boro. Using soda-lime Pyrex at 160 degrees will probably be fine but using it at higher heat and then introducing cold liquids may cause an explosion.

Ruth

"Pyrex" ware by Corning hasnt been made of borosilicate glass in the US since the 1940's
European products and laboratory glassware continue to be made of borosilicate glass.

[Larry Scott]

Pyrex is, of course, a brand name Those who went the Gathering last summer and took the trip to Corning will remember that a sizable chunk of the gift shop was given over to the Pyrex line. Regardless of what kind of glass it is made of, it is the Pyrex glass lasagna pan that I use on my hot plate.

Those who have taken any of my classes know I am a little quirky about terminology. I generally use the term 'pyrex' or 'boroscilicate' and never the term 'boro.'

With a wink, I contend that folks who use the term 'boro' are reluctant to say 'boroscilicate' in fear that someone may ask them how to spell it.

[FourTailsLampwork]

B O R O S I L I C A T E



I am just orally lazy.

On the other hand, if in *my* class you write about "midevil" or vices worsa, woe betide you. It's just what one is expert in. (Though do NOT get me started on the use of "viola" or, far worse, "wah-lah" or "wallah" instead of "voila". *shudders* )

Whatevah, thank you so much for sharing this tip again!! It makes such a difference.

[Larry Scott]

Or 'and et cetera'