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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #571  
Old 2009-02-07, 8:34am
Drafly Drafly is offline
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I agree, questions should be asked and answered. My question is: How can experienced lampworkers condem a glass and the beads made from it, if they do not personally test this glass?

I also wanted to state that I have found impurities, stones and bits of crumbling refractory, in Moretti rods. Daniel could sort all the pull into sized, totally straight rods and charge a premium price, but he made the decision to sell at $5.99 a lb., small and large size rods, as is.
Lithium is used in the melt to decrease scum and helps in the melt, but it eats up the refractories quickly.
Not speaking for Jack, but I too looked forward to new posts concerning the testing of this glass, especially with other glass. But, posts in this thread always seem to go in another direction and away from what some of us joined LE for, tips and techniques.
I know some of you made up your mind concerning this glass early in this thread. You made your feelings known then, and are still preaching. Do any of you think this belongs in a separate thread?
Just one person's opinion. I will not reply to this thread, as I do not want to "fan the fire."
Regards, Jim
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  #572  
Old 2009-02-07, 8:52am
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Originally Posted by Asil4 View Post
Do these standards apply to bead "making" business people as well? There are many "customers" and "potential customers" for them here, as well.
I would think it would apply everyone and not just the glass business. Though I can understand the frustration, the way it was done was not helpful or professional. And with that, I'm staying out since I've decided not to purchase this glass.
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  #573  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:02am
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Jim, Did Daniel post in a separate thread? He insulted those that were expressing their opinions, whose posts are gone. I think redress should be in the same thread. If Devardi wants a thread for just their own purposes, then they should open a vendor forum on LE so that they can more easily control what is posted. Right now, they are just getting free advertising which other vendors cannot do.
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  #574  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:04am
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Originally Posted by SadiesJewels View Post
I've worked some of the colors of this glass and have had to anneal some of the rods to make them workable - but have been pleased with how they have reacted once done so - there are some unique colors here. I have not been disappointed in how they performed or considered the canes inferior in any respect - I have paid considerably more for some notable Effetre that has been equally shocky!

I do not buy glass because it is cheap ... and conversely because it is expensive - if it is a color I want, then I buy it. I have glass that costs $6 a pound to glass that costs over $100 a pound ... It's all about the color to me.

I have to admit I was sitting on the fence on this issue - I've been a silver smith for 17 years and know the realities of purchasing pearls, gemstones and other commotities produced in third world countries for the lust of the American consumer capitalist market (who still ask if I will reduce my price by 50%) - here we want things cheap and to hell with the conditions required to make such goods - it's the way the market here works. Want a cheap rolling mill - Pepe??? Harbor Freight??? Go for it ... a lot of my hammers are made in Pakistan - I understand the repercussions of choosing this choice of tools.

I also have tools made in Germany, Swizterland and other fine tool making countries - but I pay 10x more for some of these premium tools - I bet many here went for Pepe tools ... or purchase others from Harbor Freight! How do you think they can produce tools at such a competitive cost? They are produced in India, China and Pakistan ... labor costs are low (and human rights equally so - child labor can be involved). How did I begin my tool collection? I bought cheap ... tools from third world countries and have only recently begun to afford the more expensive tools.

It's the same for the glass ... however ...I admired the way the CIM issues were handled - now CIM is a respected glass supplier/manufacturer ... people no longer question the working conditions of the factories that make CIM glass. It's taken that no children are used or abused in the making of this glass, the presentation of this glass is beyond exquisite .. (although I really prefer longer rods) ... and this glass has become acceptable within this community.

Daniel ... your wife has been nothing but courteous and deserving of respect in her replies imho (we don't have to agree with that sentiment do we ...???) but attacking this community does nothing but hurt your cause ... leave Natasha to do the talking.

Respectfully,

Sadie
EVERY single thing Sadie said in this post is what I was thinking last night, but was too tired to put into words...(and Kevan said *something* about little gauze pouches in another thread as well--& she's right--no one in the USA make them for 10 cents each ...ditto for bubblewrap, tissuepaper, packing peanuts, etc)....I'm not convinced the "I'll never buy *anything* folks don't have *anything* of import in their houses...no matter how hard you try, it's damn near impossible to avoid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob View Post
My question is for Natasha or any one who has tried the black rods. I saw the video on turning the black to silver and tried to lower the propane for more oxygen in the flame and it's not going silver. I am on a concentrator, do you have to be on tanks to do this.
thanks
Bob
I just worked it the same as every other glass--a fairly neutral flame, but a little "hot" & overworked it (mashed it, reshaped it, etc) then ran it like I was reducing it with a bit of extra propane for a couple seconds & the silver came right out. I'll be ordering more of the black when the pinks come in--because, yes, even if it's shocky & I "don't know how to work it", I STILL want pink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
I agree, questions should be asked and answered. My question is: How can experienced lampworkers condem a glass and the beads made from it, if they do not personally test this glass?
They shouldn't. If the beads are properly made, properly annealed, properly tested, they're just as good as anything else made the same way. Unless you're making single color beads from recycled winebottles you find on the beach over candles you make from fat drippings from your home cooking off your family farm, you're relying on SOME sort of import *somewhere* in your production stream.

I also wanted to state that I have found impurities, stones and bits of crumbling refractory, in Moretti rods. Daniel could sort all the pull into sized, totally straight rods and charge a premium price, but he made the decision to sell at $5.99 a lb., small and large size rods, as is. Evidently some people have forgotten "rocky rubino"--one of my personal favorite colors--I'd love more of it--but yeah, that was a definite hit of "impurities" in the glass & I for one the price on this glass I can live with the shockiness--for the few colors I'm likely to find I want...(pink...pink...pink...metallic black...)
Lithium is used in the melt to decrease scum and helps in the melt, but it eats up the refractories quickly.
Not speaking for Jack, but I too looked forward to new posts concerning the testing of this glass, especially with other glass. But, posts in this thread always seem to go in another direction and away from what some of us joined LE for, tips and techniques. THAT is the way of LE--no thread EVER stays "on one topic"--well, the topic stays the same, but the direction will always drift--you need to get used to that--it's always been that way & likely always will be ...it's pretty much a given....goes with the territory....it's like a big lunch-time-conversation
I know some of you made up your mind concerning this glass early in this thread. You made your feelings known then, and are still preaching. Do any of you think this belongs in a separate thread?
Just one person's opinion. I will not reply to this thread, as I do not want to "fan the fire."
Regards, Jim
Answers to Jim in his post, added in red...

Anyone who has made jewelry & done *any* small amount of research on where/what their stuff "is", knows that pretty much any component/tool/whatever they use has multiple choices that go along with it--do you use the 3 cent item, the 6 cent item, the 12 cent item, or the $2 item, all that look EXACTLY the same, to create your finished product, and how is it going to effect your ability to compete in the sales market?
This whole debate has been making me want to both laugh & cry at the same time...(it's why when the occasional "why shouldn't we buy from FMG" threads pop up, I just shake my head--THEY are one of the BIGGEST importers from INDIA & other underprivledged countries of all the jewelry catalogs--& they *do* use sweatshop labor....duh...& yet, dozens of you buy from them faithfully, doing bulk buys all the time )

If boycotting ONE glass vendor because they got upset ONE time makes you happy, go for it...MY glass came QUICKLY, my emails were answered promptly, & my order was CORRECT. More than I can say for ANOTHER vendor who seems to be on the boards ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME, who is regularly rude to anyone who has an issue with them, doesn't offer refunds, only offers corrections "if you order more glass" , & implys that every new customer or small order with a problem must be a "scammer"....& yet THAT vendor gets threads of praise ....

Go figure....

I'm still not all that impressed with the purple....(so I'm sad on that...)
But...I like the black....
I'll let you know on the bubbly blue....
I'm 50/50 on the glass itself right now....
but the service was A+
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  #575  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:19am
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Originally Posted by pam View Post
I do, however, care about our community and feel this glass is not a good quality glass and as long as people realize that it is not and that beads made from the glass will not be first quality, and know the facts about glass factories in India, then their decision is up to them.
Thank you Pam. I've been thinking about this thread for days and could not find a kind and eloquent way of stating what you just did, but it has been bothering me for days.

I don't want to insult anyone, but it takes very little to damage one's reputation with their customers these days and I am all too aware that one poor quality bead could ruin my reputation with my current customers as well as future ones as a bad experience seems to carry a future life. I simply believe that it is best for me (and my business) if I use quality materials to produce a quality product.

I will admit I was slow to move towards CiM. Very slow. I still only use a few colors that I can't find elsewhere. I have commented on none of the threads about CiM, but like everything else that happens in the glass world, I am one of many that watches closely and makes my choice carefully and quietly. Kathy at CiM most definitely has earned my respect and we have not had one personal interaction. I have simply "watched her" from the beginning and formed my opinion from there as I'm sure many of us have. No matter what your choice is, the best we can do as individuals is to make an informed a decision as possible.

Wow! I think this is the longest post I have ever written on LE (and maybe the first time I've thrown my opinion out there, too).
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  #576  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc;
Bob. What I have found with the black glass is that you have to make your bead or design with a normal flame and then when your done, turn your propane up and not your oxy down for a reduction flame. Go back to an oxy rich flame. I had to do this a couple of times to get it to work for me. It is an awesome color once you get it to go metallic.

Hope this helps!
Thank you Cynthia and yes this does help.
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  #577  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:26am
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Megan-beautiful beads. I love the effect of the boiled metallic black. I will have to try that.

Beth
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  #578  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:38am
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Originally Posted by prettyangel View Post
From Daniel,

My wife is an angel. She is loving, gentle, courteous and kind. I have never met someone so wonderful. When she is lying on the couch in tears and canít even speak or eat from so many accusations and negativity from a just a few peopleís threads, emails, postings on other places and phone calls, yes, thatís right, phone calls, I have to take action. I am her knight, and I will always be her knight. I will stand up against those who are unkind and try to hurt her. If that hurts my business, then it does. Protecting her is much more important to me. I only feel bad for those who canít understand this. Ask yourself if you would like a husband (or wife) who would not stand up for you? She doesnít even wish to post here anymore because she has been treated so badly. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IF YOU ARE JUST GOING BY THIS THREAD!!!! But this thread is bad enough, even without the things that were deleted two times by the owner.

Yes, ask your questions. But when youíre given an answer, leave it. You donít have to continue to accuse and badger. You donít have to constantly be negative and unkind, post after post, page after page. How many times does the owner have to remove postings? As my wife told you and as you should have gathered by her kindness on this thread, we are humanitarians and would never do anything to hurt others, like buying glass made by children. What more of an answer do you want?

Be critical of the glass. Thatís ok. Itís awfully strange though that a lot of the ones doing the criticizing of the glass are also the ones badgering Natasha about child labor in India. And some are from what we have learned glass testers that receive free glass from other vendors or are even paid to test other glass. And itís awfully strange that some of the ones badgering Natasha about child labor complain about problems with the glass many others are not getting, and Natasha has addressed right up front how to solve. Just why are you trying to hurt us if not because you or your friends also sell glass ĖP.D.?

I've never heard of anyone being paid to test glass... And again, questions that are being asked have nothing to do with the fact that you sell glass. This has nothing to do at all with competition. I'm sure most flameworkers would agree...the more glass choices the better.

If this ruins this glass business for us ďin one fell swoopĒ, then that is that. But I will not just stand by and watch my wife being picked apart for no reason, reducing her to tears. Asking questions and being critical can be done in a kind manner. That has not been the case.
Daniel
All of the questions have been asked polietly. Your wife has never been attacked.
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  #579  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:40am
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Originally Posted by bob View Post
My question is for Natasha or any one who has tried the black rods. I saw the video on turning the black to silver and tried to lower the propane for more oxygen in the flame and it's not going silver. I am on a concentrator, do you have to be on tanks to do this.
thanks
Bob

Bob , I have tried everything to get it to come to life . I would like the answer to this also .


Daniel , I just want to thank you for being the kind of man that will stand up for your wife's integrity . She has been nothing but kind to me personally and her true sweetness has always made its way via cyber space to me .

Blessings,
Janelyn ( whom has no idea where the lamp on my desk was made )
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  #580  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:41am
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I understand your point about staying on topic, Jim, and although I seldom participate in these kinds of posts, I do want to address Daniel (and Natasha) from a business execution perspective relative to this glass.

Daniel, I too, found your post dissappointing - unprofessional, frankly. You and Natasha have received a wealth of extremely valuable feedback regarding the quality and characteristics of the product you are representing - all for free. You are trying to launch a new business and, in my opinion, need to be far more objective than your were in your post if you want to survive and thrive. From an objective perspective, you must agree that the preponderance of evidence regarding common Indian business conditions is against your (unsubstantiated) claims. About all you accomplished by your post was to make the very customers you want to have buy your product feel that they have had their intelligence insulted and therefore disinclined to buy from you. I'm sure that's not the result you wanted.

I think there is a more positive tact you can take, instead. I was inspired by Tela, in the Beads vs. glass thread over in the family room, who shared a wonderful family experience. She wrote:

'I was a jewelry designer/importer for years. Over 25. And a few years selling handmade oriental rugs too.I had a "factory" in Taiwan, and one in India for the jewelry. My Taiwanese man used his factories on mainland China. My dad probably worked with my mans dad for an additional 25 years.
Over those years, I have had the pleasure of developing a nice relationship with these folks. Their lives have improved dramatically because of our business relationships.
Same for my Indian guys, the goods had all the quirky inconsistencies that Indian goods can have, but over the years the quality improved along with their lifestyle, as a direct result of museum shop business....
It seems to me, many find a better way of life from these "cottage" factories.
And, lets be clear, these are much closer to cottage industries than factories that most of us think of.
Now, would I, being a nice jewish girl from New york city- and all that infers, work in the conditions his "girls" worked in? Not on your life!
I visited, and the conditions ALL the people in his village live in, as far as things like housing and work conditions go were not anything I thought was ok....but, [i]his[i]workers had better housing, and more independence.They were thrilled to have the work, and to learn about our life here. And, over the 50 years we have known the familys, they have moved their shops to nicer places, bought condo's in the "modern" Taiwan, because they had more resources, and really, I think had a life improvement as a result. These are not sweat shops.'

YOU are in the greatest position to be an uplifting and positive influence on the supplier in question, as Tela's family was in their case. We as consumers have no direct interface, and therefore must rely on you to be a trusted business agent on our behalf. Trust, of course, must be earned - so be transparent with us! You'll gain that trust far faster. Even more proactively, ask for help. Describe the working conditions and where the supplier, either in your opinion or theirs, needs the most help. There are many big-hearted people in the glass business. You may find that there are folks who are interested in working with you to help improve working conditions for your supplier, much as Tela's family did with theirs.

There's quite a win-win opportunity here: a chance to help a business in an emerging country improve, a chance for that business and its employees to take a step upwards in their livelihoods, a chance for glassworkers at a new, inexpensive source of glass without the fears of exploitation - and a chance for you to grow your own business. Being transparent and engaging folks here in positive solutions is truly your best strategy.

Linda
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  #581  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:41am
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I just want to make one more response, since I obviously missed it before.

"I agree, questions should be asked and answered. My question is: How can experienced lampworkers condem a glass and the beads made from it, if they do not personally test this glass?
They shouldn't. If the beads are properly made, properly annealed, properly tested, they're just as good as anything else made the same way. Unless you're making single color beads from recycled winebottles you find on the beach over candles you make from fat drippings from your home cooking off your family farm, you're relying on SOME sort of import *somewhere* in your production stream."

This was quoted from lunamoonshadow's post where she answered Jim's question.

Jim, there is no reason to test a glass that is obviously substandard. If this glass had been made at any glassblowing facility in the US it would have been discarded. Anyone who knows anything about the making of glass will tell you that.

And Luna, you are wrong, even if substandard glass is properly made, properly annealed, properly tested it will never be the equivalent of first quality glass. Each tiny bubble is a weakness in the glass, as we all know. That's why we try very hard to remove any bubbles. One bubble, two, three, even 10 strategically placed bubbles may not affect the integrity of the glass to a great extent, but persistent bubbly glass weakens the structure. Improperly made glass has inherent weaknesses of its own, irregardless of the bubbles.
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  #582  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:42am
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I would love to comment on your post Daniel. But I too have seen what happens to people that post in support of someone that most disagree with.

I wish you much success with your business. Take this as a bump in the road.

Hugs,
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  #583  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:58am
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Well put!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys View Post
I would love to comment on your post Daniel. But I too have seen what happens to people that post in support of someone that most disagree with.

I wish you much success with your business. Take this as a bump in the road.

Hugs,
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  #584  
Old 2009-02-07, 9:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silkys;
Bob , I have tried everything to get it to come to life . I would like the answer to this also .


Daniel , I just want to thank you for being the kind of man that will stand up for your wife's integrity . She has been nothing but kind to me personally and her true sweetness has always made its way via cyber space to me .

Blessings,
Janelyn ( whom has no idea where the lamp on my desk was made )
If you go to the second post in this page lunamoonshadow explaned what she does and it sounded good
Bob
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  #585  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:00am
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And Luna, you are wrong, even if substandard glass is properly made, properly annealed, properly tested it will never be the equivalent of first quality glass. Each tiny bubble is a weakness in the glass, as we all know. That's why we try very hard to remove any bubbles. One bubble, two, three, even 10 strategically placed bubbles may not affect the integrity of the glass to a great extent, but persistent bubbly glass weakens the structure. Improperly made glass has inherent weaknesses of its own, irregardless of the bubbles.
Hey Pam .. ( im not challenging you any at all ,ok) I really would like to know . Ive never held a rod of "Seeded" glass. Ive never inquired about it , I have always assumed it was Bubbles that gave it the " Seeded name . Was I wrong to assume this ? And If not , what makes it OK to use and sell ?




Thank you Bob !
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  #586  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:11am
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Originally Posted by pam View Post
I just want to make one more response, since I obviously missed it before.

"I agree, questions should be asked and answered. My question is: How can experienced lampworkers condem a glass and the beads made from it, if they do not personally test this glass?
They shouldn't. If the beads are properly made, properly annealed, properly tested, they're just as good as anything else made the same way. Unless you're making single color beads from recycled winebottles you find on the beach over candles you make from fat drippings from your home cooking off your family farm, you're relying on SOME sort of import *somewhere* in your production stream."

This was quoted from lunamoonshadow's post where she answered Jim's question.

Jim, there is no reason to test a glass that is obviously substandard. If this glass had been made at any glassblowing facility in the US it would have been discarded. Anyone who knows anything about the making of glass will tell you that.

And Luna, you are wrong, even if substandard glass is properly made, properly annealed, properly tested it will never be the equivalent of first quality glass. Each tiny bubble is a weakness in the glass, as we all know. That's why we try very hard to remove any bubbles. One bubble, two, three, even 10 strategically placed bubbles may not affect the integrity of the glass to a great extent, but persistent bubbly glass weakens the structure. Improperly made glass has inherent weaknesses of its own, irregardless of the bubbles.

So....based on this then, the $50 a quarter pound glass that TINK was selling from Moretti/Effettre that was "bubble glass tubes" that's LOADED with bubbles, is inherently weak?

And every one of those freakin' rods of Opal yellow & EDP I've got with bubbles running the entire length of the rods that blow up all over my desk are *obviously* substandard, because they blow to hell every time I melt them...

Pam--I wasn't arguing that this glass likely wasn't melted long enough--I'm sure you're right & it needed more time in the pot.
I was simply stating that one shouldn't lump "artisan made properly annealed" with "import unannealed" just based on WHAT GLASS IT WAS MADE FROM.
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  #587  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:12am
likes to make glass stuff likes to make glass stuff is offline
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Originally Posted by pam View Post
I just want to make one more response, since I obviously missed it before.

"I agree, questions should be asked and answered. My question is: How can experienced lampworkers condem a glass and the beads made from it, if they do not personally test this glass?
They shouldn't. If the beads are properly made, properly annealed, properly tested, they're just as good as anything else made the same way. Unless you're making single color beads from recycled winebottles you find on the beach over candles you make from fat drippings from your home cooking off your family farm, you're relying on SOME sort of import *somewhere* in your production stream."

This was quoted from lunamoonshadow's post where she answered Jim's question.

Jim, there is no reason to test a glass that is obviously substandard. If this glass had been made at any glassblowing facility in the US it would have been discarded. Anyone who knows anything about the making of glass will tell you that.

And Luna, you are wrong, even if substandard glass is properly made, properly annealed, properly tested it will never be the equivalent of first quality glass. Each tiny bubble is a weakness in the glass, as we all know. That's why we try very hard to remove any bubbles. One bubble, two, three, even 10 strategically placed bubbles may not affect the integrity of the glass to a great extent, but persistent bubbly glass weakens the structure. Improperly made glass has inherent weaknesses of its own, irregardless of the bubbles.
How in the heck can you know a glass is substandard if it hasn't been tested or used?

By the qualities you posted, most handpulled moretti and vetro don't qualify as acceptable glass, as we all know of colors that shatter an inch at a time as you use the rod.

Moretti regular clear, anyone?

Rocky rubino?

All those rods with one bubble running the whole length of it?

It seems like Devardi (which I've not used or even purchased) is being judged at a whole new standard...and that's not right.
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  #588  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:17am
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"Just why are you trying to hurt us if not because you or your friends also sell glass –P.D.? "

I assume this was addressed to me.

Daniel, I am not trying to hurt you or Natasha or your business, but admittedly from Natasha, you have only been making beads for six months. You obviously have great customer service and I know people appreciate that, but honesty is the best policy. If you had, for instance, come forward and said that you have found an inexpensive glass that is not first quality, but would be good for practice beads, I would have had no problem with that. If you had, for instance, said, I don't know anything about the factory first hand, I would have been satisfied with that. If you had come on this forum when the discussion was still intact and said, wow, we didn't know about children being used in the factory, let us investigate, then come back and said, we are told there are no children used in the factory, I would have been satisfied with that.

My concern is not for you and your business, but for the lampworking community and the beads we produce. As long as people are aware of what this glass is and is not, and the preponderence of unsafe conditions and use of children in the glass factories in India, that is I all I want, and I think that has been told. People are free to make their own choice.
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  #589  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:21am
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Deb Hopeful Journeys Deb Hopeful Journeys is offline
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Ok, so Natasha posted what she knows so far about the company. Why can't those that disagree either start a new thread, not buy the glass, etc.

I am saddened by what has happened to Natasha here. If you don't like the glass, business model etc "THEN DON'T BUY THE FREAKIN GLASS" It really is that simple.

Sigh,
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  #590  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:24am
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Originally Posted by pam View Post

"The rod I got had a bump with some impurities in it (looked like a small piece of gravel, I swear) but I just heated around it and pulled it off." Those are called stones and are caused by improper mixing of the glass.
.
Such as we found in rocky rubino. This is not a problem that only happens with glass from India. I have found it in Italian made glass often enough. I have a batch of lovely dark lapis (I think that was the name I'd have to run check and its just not worth the time) that has rocks in it.
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  #591  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drafly View Post
.
Not speaking for Jack, but I too looked forward to new posts concerning the testing of this glass, especially with other glass. But, posts in this thread always seem to go in another direction and away from what some of us joined LE for, tips and techniques.
This particular thread was started to inquire about the origin of this unheard of Devardi glass... the original poster stated they were "leery". The posts that are about how, where and by whom the glass is made is ON topic for this thread.

If you want a thread just about tips and tricks for using this glass, why not start one? There are several posters in this thread sharing their findings on using the glass, so I'm sure they would be happy to continue doing so in a thread that was actually created for that purpose.
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  #592  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:26am
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Thanks for the info Pam, that was very interesting to read. In reviewing the information in this thread on balance it appears to me that this glass has a few nice colours which are not currently in the palette for 104.

I have to wonder though if it is as shocky as it is reported to be whether the wastage makes it such a good deal. I know the advice is to use a cooler flame, and kiln anneal your rods, but frankly with time being an issue for me in beadmaking, those are not options.

I also question the testing process for this glass. The owners admit they are newbies in making glass beads and I would like to know how this glass stands up over time. Does the high percentage of impurities/bubbles etc mean that beads will crack in 6 months/a year/? All questions I would like fully answered before I trust my reputation on using this glass in my beads.

Oh, and Daniel, glass manufacturers use highly experienced beadmakers as testers because they are respected within the community, know what they are doing and will report back objectively. That way any glitches in the glass can be worked out before selling it to the general public
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  #593  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:28am
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When I first started out, I also bought effetre/vetro glass that had lumpy bumps, inclusions, uneven rods... but they were sold as seconds at a discount and it was stated up front that it wasn't first quality glass.
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  #594  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff View Post
How in the heck can you know a glass is substandard if it hasn't been tested or used?

By the qualities you posted, most handpulled moretti and vetro don't qualify as acceptable glass, as we all know of colors that shatter an inch at a time as you use the rod.

Moretti regular clear, anyone?

Rocky rubino?

All those rods with one bubble running the whole length of it?

It seems like Devardi (which I've not used or even purchased) is being judged at a whole new standard...and that's not right.
Thank You.

Anise white anyone or does it shatter at the touch of heat?
Just do a search for 'shocky' and you will find numerous complaints of Vetrofond, Moretti and others that are deemed shocky glass.

Moretti Intense Tangerine and Opal Yellow? Both had holes the length of the rod. I took them back to that supplier I used at the time and she replaced mine and stuck those back in the bin for sale. Not my supplier anymore.

CIM clear? I have bought rods and stringer FULL of bubbles.
There is a thread of complaints on which clear is the best clear to use.

Oh yea and Rocky Rubino...."a wonderful color with just a few rocks - just pull those out and I'll even sell it a bit cheaper"

What about the seeded glass I bought?

There does seem to be a double standard going on.

Daniel, I understood your first post and your second one verified what I had thought. I think it was nice for you to take up for Natasha and my hubby would have done the same.

Like Deb said, I have seen what happens to those who disagree far too many times here so I'll leave it at that.
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  #595  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:34am
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I started a new thread for those of you who would like to continue showing and sharing your artwork using Devardi glass. Anyone who would like to show what they have been making, or need advise or input or feedback with beads they are making, color play, shapes, sizes,reactions etc. It is directed toward Devardi glass because it's a relatively new glass and I know how I feel about new glass, I WANT SOME so I can see if I like it! And if I do, because I trust my own knowledge and opinion, my beads will not suffer the "substandard" label that some might think will happen. It's a technical thread about GLASS all for free! It's in the family room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys View Post
Ok, so Natasha posted what she knows so far about the company. Why can't those that disagree either start a new thread, not buy the glass, etc.

I am saddened by what has happened to Natasha here. If you don't like the glass, business model etc "THEN DON'T BUY THE FREAKIN GLASS" It really is that simple.

Sigh,
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  #596  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:38am
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When she is lying on the couch in tears and canít even speak or eat from so many accusations and negativity from a just a few peopleís threads, emails, postings on other places and phone calls, yes, thatís right, phone calls, I have to take action.
i think no matter where you stand on this issue, i think we can all agree that if your wife has received nasty phone calls over this, that is totally unacceptable. i'm very sorry.
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  #597  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:42am
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Jim, Did Daniel post in a separate thread? He insulted those that were expressing their opinions, whose posts are gone. I think redress should be in the same thread. If Devardi wants a thread for just their own purposes, then they should open a vendor forum on LE so that they can more easily control what is posted. Right now, they are just getting free advertising which other vendors cannot do.
They did not start this thread, this thread was started before they were even members.
That being the case, saying "if Devardi wants a thread..." Implies they had some choice in the matter, in an effort to show wrong doing. This strikes me as unfair and wrong.
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  #598  
Old 2009-02-07, 10:44am
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I am not sure why those are saying this is poor quality glass. I mean, given its no double helix or bullseye but I have now tried it and when I followed the instructions on not working it too hot and taking the time to preheat the rod in the flame, I did not have any scumming, bubbles, or popping glass. It was completely enjoyable to work with... I am not sure how their glass is any different from something vetro or effetre has put out. I have received Vetrofond Light Blue that had nothing but impurities in the rod, black specks that would come out in the heat and be seen in the finished product.. And even after being told by numerous people of the nasty rods, it was still sold as quality glass with no warning to the buyers that it was crap. Rods and rods of popping white, black, and other pulled colors. A ton of my rods from effetre and vetro have bubbles running up through them but we are okay with putting up with them.
If its a moral thing and you know the country of origin, know what conditions COULD be like, make your own choice on whether not to buy or to buy but why put down the glass when you possibly have never even tried it. I would rather help a business order from India because it does inherently have a trickle down effect. I mean, I would rather the man working at the factory have a job and be able to send money home to help his kids eat and house them, then him living on the streets not even being able to feed himself much less his kids. Until Natasha and hubby go visit the factory themselves, they are not going to know for sure there are any children there and with knowing that, you still have a choice to purchase and not purchase but not all indian business owners over there are bad people forcing kids to work. I would hope that the benefit of the doubt could be given to them until they can go see the factory. I mean every time we buy a shirt or shoes, do we ask ourselves if a child actually made that and most likely a kid could put a shirt together before they would be dealing with huge rods of hot glass.
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  #599  
Old 2009-02-07, 11:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc View Post
I started a new thread for those of you who would like to continue showing and sharing your artwork using Devardi glass. Anyone who would like to show what they have been making, or need advise or input or feedback with beads they are making, color play, shapes, sizes,reactions etc. It is directed toward Devardi glass because it's a relatively new glass and I know how I feel about new glass, I WANT SOME so I can see if I like it! And if I do, because I trust my own knowledge and opinion, my beads will not suffer the "substandard" label that some might think will happen. It's a technical thread about GLASS all for free! It's in the family room.
Thanks for starting a new thread. I am very curious and have been since this thread opened to find out about the pink Devardi glass. Will check out the new thread.

Blessings,
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Old 2009-02-07, 11:05am
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Jack, I'm sorry if you took our posts as "unfriendly" as that is not the case at all. For the most part glass bead artists, as many other artists in other media, are very concerned about the conditions of peoples involved in bringing our materials to us. In every other glass that we buy we have asked for and been given the information, and the business owners have been honest with us.
Has Natasha not been honest and answered every question she CAN answer right now?

We know about all the factories and the owners of the factories and the working conditions within those factories. These things are important to us as a group.
It's important to everyone... but that's not the issue here. The issue here is having some people condem this particular glass distributor because they assume. You're automatically assuming the worst. That's not right. Don't threaten "not to buy their glass" because of an assumption.

The quality of the product is also very important to us and the honesty of those selling those products.
Have they not been honest? If not, HOW DO YOU KNOW? Natasha came right out and said that this particular glass isn't the greatest. She's been forthright and answered every question she is able to answer right now... OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. You people just won't let up.

I'm not quite sure why you feel this glass seller should be treated any different than every other glass seller. I have not seen one rude post in this whole thread. People have been posting the truth, perhaps it is an ugly truth, but it is the truth.
I don't feel this particular glass seller should be treated any different than every other glass seller. Is it the truth about Devardi Glass? We don't know yet. Again, you're ASSUMING it's the truth.

Given that the seller/importer will not give us information, then the only assumption that can be made is that this factory is like others in India.
That's the problem in a nutshell. You're basing your "facts" on an ASSUMPTION. Do you understand what that means? Do you know what can happen if you assume something is true, without knowing for sure that it is true? These folks are starting a business and the threats of "I'm not buying this glass" because of an assumption is cruel and rude. Some of you people have a great influence on others here, and by saying things like "I won't buy your glass because it was made by malnourished children" is just wrong because we don't know that to be true yet about Devardi Glass.

Do you really feel that working malnourished children until they die of silicosis is unimportant and should be left hidden because it interferes with you confidently buying a lower quality, inexpensive glass?

Of course not! But, again, (), HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS PARTICULAR GLASS IS IS MADE BY MALNOURISHED CHILDREN? You're ASSUMING again.

It seems to me that you should sit back, relax, go make some beautiful glass art and see what the TRUTH is when Natasha visits the factory in the near future like she said a few days ago. THEN make all the "I'll not buy your glass" comments if what you ASSUME to be true, is indeed a fact.

Remember... innocent until proven guilty... or does that NOT apply here at LE?

For the last time,
Jack
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