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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2015-01-11, 1:20am
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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Default DH Iaso , any tips?

I played the other night, I'm not getting that cool copper look
Mine look like Iris. I've tried a few different ways, on a cooled bead, warm bead, short repeated passes etc., either it looks like Iris, or muddy Iris. I've made spacers and inch size.

I'm fine with Arke, Iris, Triton...all the DH glass almost, but this one has me confused. Seems you work it the same as Iris so not sure why I'm not getting the copper/bronze.

If you want pics I can post, my battery is recharging.
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  #2  
Old 2015-01-13, 12:03am
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
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hmmm lol.

Ok so I've tried a few more times, it's just not working for me I've tried different flames, parts of the flame, bead size, warm and cool. Still need to take pics, mostly it looks like black with over reduced parts. One I thought was 'coppery' last night was just that muddy over reduced greenish.

On the other hand, I'm in love with Iris, which is supposed to be a bronze version of it. You would think it would play as well.
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  #3  
Old 2015-01-13, 8:21pm
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I didn't get as much copper colors as I would like, I got a lot of blues and greens, but I found it easier to get that rainbow color sheen then any other of the colors. I used a dragon's breath flame (all propane and holding way away from the torch), then turned down the torch and had a smaller reduction flame and bathed the bead in and out. I did get some that that grey area you were talking about if I over reduced. I would love more tips on getting consistant copper.
Oh and I let the bead cool off a bit before reducing.
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  #4  
Old 2015-01-13, 10:06pm
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I'm having the same issues as Ravenesque..... so frustrating! I see the metallic copper tones and then when I pull it out of the flame they go away and turn to blues (or muddy blues if I've reduced too much). I'm pretty good with most of the DH colors but this one is not working for me. I even struggle a bit with the Iris. Crap. I thought they would be super easy to work, why oh why did I buy a pound of each. Okay, I'll stop whining....
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  #5  
Old 2015-01-14, 11:05am
28676bhe 28676bhe is offline
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Mine stretched and broke up on the surface, but it was a nice look - just not what I was expecting!
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  #6  
Old 2015-01-18, 7:16am
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Those are gorgeous, Lara!!

I tried it last night for the first time and had the same issues. I'll try to post a pic later of what comes out of the kiln...I haven't looked yet!
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  #7  
Old 2015-01-18, 9:01am
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This is the first of the DH reducing colors that has been a problem for me. I was expecting it to be a little bit more complicated than the others, but not THIS complicated. I managed to get some of the coppery-bronze color, but it doesn't look rich and deep like the sample pics on the DH site. Mine looks thin and cheap. That's a poor description, but it reminds me of really cheap, low quality imitation gold plated jewelry, compared to good quality 18 carat solid gold jewelry.

Nothing that I've tried makes it look anything like the sample. The closest I've gotten to that was by doing about 6 quick passes through a bushy redux flame, cooling between passes, and then using an oxy flame to erase almost all of the reduction. When I repeated the redux cycles, it finally turned sort of bronzy. More coppery, actually, and it was the thin, crappy looking stuff.

Anybody else come up with a routine that works well yet?

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  #8  
Old 2015-01-18, 10:57am
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Well, I won't bother to post pics because all the beads came out a dull black with a brownish cast. no reduction at all, even though they looked sort of like Iris when they went into the kiln.

I left them on the mandrels and will heat them up and try again. I'll try the dragon's breath thing and see if that works.
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  #9  
Old 2015-01-18, 10:59am
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OTOH, my beads made with Iris were stunning! I bought 1/2 lb of Iris 2nds and I'm glad I did. Also glad I only got 1/4 lb of Iaso. If I can get something like Lara's results, I would be happy, though.
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Last edited by Magicfire; 2015-01-18 at 11:09am.
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  #10  
Old 2015-01-18, 6:32pm
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Thanks Patti, here are some more. You can see in the center beadd, I didn't get as much color.
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  #11  
Old 2015-01-18, 8:06pm
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I am almost there, I played a bit last night. Just like everyone else, I thought I had got a consistent copper, but after they came out of the kiln, not all of them were that colours. I think the bead I had the most success with was one that I let cool completely before re-introducing it to a bushy reduction flame. I would let it cool before each re-introduction, it took ages.

Gonna try with some spacers tomorrow

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  #12  
Old 2015-01-19, 12:54am
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^that's as close as I've gotten with a spacer once. But mine don't always look copper going in, sometimes I just give up because they want to live as black with muddy bits

Lara those are crazy pretty, but I have Iris and Arke to get colors, I want that coppery bronze.

I still need pics of one that I think is the closest, but it's not pretty. I need to make a note.
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  #13  
Old 2015-01-19, 11:00am
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Well, I reheated the beads from the first night, and did what Lara said...let cool, then put in a bushy reduction flame. I also tried erasing the reduction with an oxygen flame and then redoing the reduction, like suggested on the DH website. I reduced the heck out of them, over and over, letting cool in between times. I thought I had figured it out...when I erased the reduction and redid it, I got more and more bronze metallic color. But as soon as I took it out of the flame it would disappear. But after I did it many times on each bead it seemed like there was finally a pretty metallic thing going on, so I put them in the kiln.

All of them looked like they had some reduction going into the kiln...not bronze, but still something.

Nope. They were still that muddy greenish/brownish/black when I took them out of the kiln this morning. I'm really bummed, more because of the time I wasted trying to get them to do something.

The only color is a bit of reddish reduction.

Beautiful beads, Lara and Carolyn!

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Last edited by Magicfire; 2015-01-19 at 11:03am.
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  #14  
Old 2015-01-19, 11:06am
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Oh, there is a bit of a cream thing going on on the spacers. The bead on the far right is CIM Gunmetal with some Iaso stringer in the middle section. It's got a little bit of cream and reddish stuff. Kind of interesting, but not what I was hoping for.

I think I will put Iaso aside and stick with Arke and Iris for now.
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Old 2015-01-19, 4:45pm
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It looks like you are over reducing the beads, Patti. You do reduce multiple times but in a light reducing flame. Try lowering the oxygen and then just add a touch more propane so your flame is bushy but small.

Here is AX598, the test batch that became Iaso:

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Last edited by Hayley; 2015-01-19 at 4:48pm.
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Old 2015-01-19, 5:08pm
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When I am reducing a bead I twirl it in the flame for a few seconds, take it out, twirl it again, take it out. I never leave it in for more than 2 seconds at a time. Not sure if that is what you are doing but you could try that. I have never reduced in a no propane flame, but Lara seems to get pretty colours, so I might try that with Iris
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Old 2015-01-19, 5:09pm
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If you see that over reduction, you can get rid of it pretty easily with Iaso by switching back to a small hot oxidising flame
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  #18  
Old 2015-01-19, 6:28pm
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Can this be encased or is this just for the surface? I would love to see a copper under encasement. Waiting for mine to arrive
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Old 2015-01-19, 7:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillybead View Post
Can this be encased or is this just for the surface? I would love to see a copper under encasement. Waiting for mine to arrive
The top bead in the picture (post 15) is encased. It's very difficult to keep the copper/bronze color under encasement.
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Old 2015-01-19, 8:21pm
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Last year, I decided to use up my shorts of silver glass and reichenbach. I encased each piece.. One came out a gorgeous copper. For the life of me I can't reproduce it. Thought it might be copper ruby.. Bought more, it wasn't right. I was hoping this would have the same reaction. The closest I have been able to reproduce it is using copper pixie dust..
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  #21  
Old 2015-01-19, 8:47pm
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Thanks Hayley. I'll try that...though the first time I tried Iaso I'm pretty sure I used a light reducing flame. It was the 2nd night that I really blasted it with reduction.

What drove me nuts was that the bead would be a beautiful copper/metallic in the flame, but as soon as I took it out of the flame the metallic would disappear.

I will try it again, though! Those beads are gorgeous.

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Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
It looks like you are over reducing the beads, Patti. You do reduce multiple times but in a light reducing flame. Try lowering the oxygen and then just add a touch more propane so your flame is bushy but small.

Here is AX598, the test batch that became Iaso:

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Old 2015-01-20, 12:00am
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Yes I always just bounce the beads in quick for Iris etc. Although I've tried literally everything with these. I'm curious now if the pics on the site are the test batch

Here are pics finally, the focal is the closest, but it's not pretty straight on..it's sort of a dull army green is the best I can describe, if you turn the bead it looks almost like it's 'supposed' to. The other ones are the norm for me and Iaso...some are just black with hints of rainbow and/or over reduced streaks.

I did email them, still waiting on them to chime in.
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  #23  
Old 2015-01-20, 12:01pm
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A light tent makes reduction colors look drastically better, such as they'll never look in any real-life scenario, except maybe an overcast, but bright, day with everything covered in snow. I wonder how much of the difference in photos is from the photography. Notice the gap of non-vibrant-rainbowness from Lara's pictures - that's presumably where her light tent has an opening, and that's what the bead would look like in normal conditions.

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Old 2015-01-20, 12:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
A light tent makes reduction colors look drastically better, such as they'll never look in any real-life scenario, except maybe an overcast, but bright, day with everything covered in snow. I wonder how much of the difference in photos is from the photography. Notice the gap of non-vibrant-rainbowness from Lara's pictures - that's presumably where her light tent has an opening, and that's what the bead would look like in normal conditions.
The bronze in my beads is as vibrant in real-life scenario as in the photograph. I mostly sell to my students and those beads were all sold in the studio classroom with just the fluorescent ceiling lights.
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Old 2015-01-20, 12:16pm
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Iaso is formula AX598. No changes whatsoever were made from the test batch to the production run. No other colors were run in the pot between the test pot and the production run. All materials and composition are identical. Frankly, it's not the type of colors that would change from batch to batch, chemically, it is very stable and consistent. Every pot was tested, and performs the same as the initial batch. Our beads displayed on the website were made from mid-production glass.
It does require particular flame settings, and bead heat and reduction duration are more critical than with, say, triton. I have resisted trying to give specific timings (eg, cool 20 seconds, pass through specific flame "x" number of times, cooling "x" seconds between passes) because it is going to vary from person to person.
But I'll do it anyway:
1) Shape bead
2) Allow bead to cool for 20 seconds.
3) Adjust flame so candles are stretched 2mm from neutral.
4) Pass bead through flame, candles should touch bead and deflect yellow flame around the edges. 1.5 seconds duration for each pass.
5) Allow bead to cool 5 seconds between passes.
6) Repeat pass-through and cooling cycle 5-15 times.
7) Anneal. Turn your kiln down, it's hotter than neccesary anyway.

Here's a short video of the process:-----> Iaso <-----

The reduction proceed is pretty much like Iris, with a slightly different flame setting, and passes closer to the torch face.
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Old 2015-01-20, 1:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
The bronze in my beads is as vibrant in real-life scenario as in the photograph. I mostly sell to my students and those beads were all sold in the studio classroom with just the fluorescent ceiling lights.
Here's an old photo of something made with unknown DH glass. You'll notice that the places where the paper is reflecting off of the piece are like rainbow oil slicks, and the rest aren't. Granted, a normal environment will show more reflections where the photo has none, and less where the are some, because the white paper background gives an excellent broad, gentle, full-spectrum illumination for the surface-reduction to show up, and the non-reflective areas are almost totally lightless (this was taken in a black box with a spot light inside, so pretty much opposite of a light-tent setup).



It's not that the rainbow effect is never seen in real life, but that it never covers the entire piece so vibrantly as these light-tent photos show, and sometimes it is all but imperceptible. It's beautiful stuff, but I've had enough trouble photographing it to know that it is light-dependent.

To be clear - a light that is strong enough to make a white-spot reflection on the glass will only show the white-spot reflection. What's required for the rainbows to show up is a broad, gentle, but not-too-dim light source. In Double Helix's video posted above, it comes from the light reflecting off of the ceiling, walls, etc., and the best source, because it's the closest, is the table. Here's a link to the end where they're showing the bead off - https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...QnCbRR9Y&t=152

Last edited by dusty; 2015-01-20 at 2:25pm.
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Old 2015-01-20, 2:34pm
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We've noted the "light box effect", and so have made sure to post at least one photo of our new colors outdoors in full natural light. Some of our older colors, like Kronos, would indeed hint at the iridescence under certain lighting conditions, and like you say, would not display them at all angles.

Our newest exterior lusters, Arke, Iris, and Iaso do show strong metallic multicolored iridescence "in real life".

(Iaso pendant)

(Iris wings)
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Old 2015-01-20, 3:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Helix Glassworks View Post
We've noted the "light box effect", and so have made sure to post at least one photo of our new colors outdoors in full natural light.
That isn't what I'd use to cure the "light box effect." The sky is a huge light box.

I still haven't figured out how to photograph DH glass to give my customers an honest preview of what they might expect to see when they open the box in their living room - the photos always look either better or worse than the pieces look in actuality. I'd like to get something figured out, because right now I either go with the photos that look bad, which doesn't help sales, or just save the items for shows, which doesn't help sales, either. It seems like most people go with the best photos they can take, and it's not like the rest of my photos aren't take with excellent lighting, so maybe I'll go with that.

Last edited by dusty; 2015-01-20 at 3:37pm.
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Old 2015-01-20, 4:09pm
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I've never had any complaints from customers on the beads being different than in photos. *knocks wood*
We've seen pics from indoors and out with these beads, I don't think that's the case.

So Jed, I'll try closer and more adjustments. Iris is awesome btw! Thanks for the video.
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Old 2015-01-20, 4:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty View Post
That isn't what I'd use to cure the "light box effect." The sky is a huge light box.

I still haven't figured out how to photograph DH glass to give my customers an honest preview of what they might expect to see when they open the box in their living room - the photos always look either better or worse than the pieces look in actuality. I'd like to get something figured out, because right now I either go with the photos that look bad, which doesn't help sales, or just save the items for shows, which doesn't help sales, either. It seems like most people go with the best photos they can take, and it's not like the rest of my photos aren't take with excellent lighting, so maybe I'll go with that.
I don't sell online so don't have your dilemma. I can say, however, that often time students and customers who have seen my work online usually comment about how much more vibrant and colorful - not to mention iridescent - my beads are irl compared to the pictures they saw on the web.
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