Ventillation Questions anyone run into this problem?

macsynchro · #1 2009-12-03, 11:49am

I have a 440 cfm rated hood. I have been working more than in the past these days 5 to 6 hours a day on a good day. Normally I have the central air on (l live in Florida) So at the beginning of the month I started getting sharp stabbing pains in my head, nausea, dizzyness....
I had my eyes checked nothing that would explain it... Next when to primary doctor MRI is clean and I don't have any infections... Neurologist is next week...

But here is what I am thinking.... I do have a fresh air vent in the room but we are thinking that the ventillation system is pulling to much good air out of the room. I have started torching with the windows open for now but I am still getting the headaches.

Has anyone run into this issue?

I don't want to stop torching.... *sigh*

cheng076 · #2 2009-12-03, 11:58am

I think your 'central air' system is negating any flow from your hood. Is there any way to stop the central air flow into/out of the room while you torch? Then provide another source for makeup air such as your open window. I also think your hood is too small. Check out Mike Aurelous (sp) great posts on ventilation and the sizing of systems.

cheng076

Here is how I tested my system. With my torch lighted I used smoke bombs in all four corners of the studio and at several other points (one at a time) and timed how long it took to completely evacuate the smoke. In my case the longest time was 10 seconds... and that was on low speed.

cheng076

macsynchro · #3 2009-12-03, 12:23pm

Thanks Cheng! I sent him a PM.

NMLinda · #4 2009-12-04, 9:16pm

In addition to cheng076's thought, your fan could be too small for how you've set up your vent hood, and for its size. This, alone, could lead to your symptoms.

Linda

macsynchro · #5 2009-12-07, 9:52am

My husband did take the hood apart and that fan is pulling some serious air. So I don't think it's the fan. But thanks...

NMLinda · #6 2009-12-07, 7:22pm

I don't know your configuration, but most folks who post here and elsewhere seem to like a hood arrangement that requires 650 cfm or more. The cfm needed is proportional to the width of your hood and height above your work surface, times a factor that depends on whether your hood is open on all sides or enclosed on all sides. For example, if you're using an adapted 30" kitchen hood that is open on all sides, and you have it mounted two and a half feet above your work surface, your cfm needs might be

781.25 cfm = 2.5' wide x 2.5 ' high x 125

Quite a few folks use kitchen range hoods and try to adapt them. They can work fine, so long as the fan is replace with one that has enough cfm. The one you mentioned, 440 cfm, sounds like the maximum one can buy at places like Home Depot. Unfortunately, this is about half of what you would really need for a hood that size mounted at a comfortable working height. This can very easily explain why you're feeling sick after torching. The fan may very easily not be big enough to extract the noxious fumes from your face. You can test this yourself by turning your torch on and holding a smoky source next to the flame. The smoke should be sucked up into the hood in no more than 1-2 seconds. Any longer than that, and you're sure to be breathing in the spent combustion by-products of the flame, along with any minor toxic agents released by the glass itself. Some people are very, very sensitive to this.

I would highly recommend you read the following:

http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/ventilation-primer/

and also go to

http://www.ArtGlassAnswers.com

These sites have excellent and important information that will help answer your question and ensure your safety.

Linda

Annelyse · #7 2009-12-09, 4:38am

Take care Diana! I hope you fell better soon.

Ravenesque · #8 2010-01-12, 8:53am

Now I'm here because I started to feel nauseous(sp) while torching, I no longer have the flu lol so it has to be my new set up.

Set up now, my chair is lower so my hood is higher and I'm closer to my torch than before. (also more comfortable so I sit longer periods as well)

Reading the link suggested above, he says it's bad to have too high cfm..basically no higher than 650-690..
Am I reading right? This is against all I've read here today.
http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/20...turbing-trend/

This is all so damn confusing.
I hate math, this is all math problems..where's the fan fairy?

woodywood143 · #9 2010-01-12, 8:57am

check out this thread right here
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=115042

Dale M. · #10 2010-01-12, 11:06am

One thing to consider is your HVAC may be doing you in...... HVAC does not supply fresh air (well maybe 5 to 10%) it mostly recycles room/house air. If your HVAC is negating the "serious air" you vent fan pulls, you are not getting fresh air flow needed to be safe...

Eliminate the ac into room while torching, setup room/studio in "concept" of sealed space and control fresh air entering through direct access from outside and be sure you exhausted air is at least 10 feet away for fresh air intake....

AC for most part is not your friend when doing studio ventilation....

Dale

Dale M. · #11 2010-01-12, 11:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenesque

Now I'm here because I started to feel nauseous(sp) while torching, I no longer have the flu lol so it has to be my new set up.

Set up now, my chair is lower so my hood is higher and I'm closer to my torch than before. (also more comfortable so I sit longer periods as well)

Reading the link suggested above, he says it's bad to have too high cfm..basically no higher than 650-690..
Am I reading right? This is against all I've read here today.
http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/20...turbing-trend/

This is all so damn confusing.
I hate math, this is all math problems..where's the fan fairy?

The CFM requirements for ventilation is directly related to size of hood opening....

For a 650 -690 CFM air flow, hood opening would be approximately 24X30 inches....... IF opening is larger it needs more air flow (more CFM) ....

The math is the easy port, finding parts and building effective system is a problem....

Where the confusion may come in is Mike says to use 125 cfm for "open hood" and to use 100 CFM for a enclosed (five sided -box type) work station.... This does make a differences in cfm ratio..... But by no means limits CFM rating to specific numbers. CFM needed is still calculated by "face opening" of hood or "box" and using proper CFM "constant" (100 or 125) of workstation type....

Dale

AVTrout · #12 2010-01-15, 11:22am

Hey! That same thing happens to me. I torch in the basement, have a huge fan, a custom made hood which is vented out the window that is directly above me. The "good" air window is 20' away but it's small. Gas furnace and hot water heater are also in the basement. And the hole for the sump pump is right beside me. I get dizzy and have a heavy feeling in my chest when I torch (used to torch, haven't in over a year due to ventilation issues). Last year I decided the hell with it, I'm pushing through, because i want to torch! After about 2 weeks of torching a few hours a night I started noticing during the day that I was frequently forgetting things and having a little difficulty with my verbalization. I'd say the wrong word or not be able to find the right word. DH and I decided it's due to the torching. I stopped, and after a few more weeks, I was fine.

We're moving in another year and 1/2, and one of my priorities is having a perfect studio set up. Until then, when it thaws out over here in Pennsylvania, this spring I'm going to torch in the garage. Double doors up!

NMLinda · #13 2010-01-15, 3:31pm

There's some good posts about setting up a studio in a basement on

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/index.php

It's worth getting a membership so that you can see the photos and pictures.

Working in a basement where you have a water heater, furnace or other gas-fueld appliance can be problematic if you don't take special steps. You are very likely sucking spent combustion fumes from your furnace or water heater right towards you by virtue of your lampworking ventilation fan. That could easily explain your symptoms - you may be getting a higher exposure from these appliances than from your torch. Torching in a basement takes some careful planning to avoid just this kind of problem. I highly encourage you to go to Art Glass Answers and read the various discussions on working in a basement.

Linda

Dale M. · #14 2010-01-16, 10:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMLinda

There's some good posts about setting up a studio in a basement on

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/index.php

It's worth getting a membership so that you can see the photos and pictures.

Working in a basement where you have a water heater, furnace or other gas-fueld appliance can be problematic if you don't take special steps. You are very likely sucking spent combustion fumes from your furnace or water heater right towards you by virtue of your lampworking ventilation fan. That could easily explain your symptoms - you may be getting a higher exposure from these appliances than from your torch. Torching in a basement takes some careful planning to avoid just this kind of problem. I highly encourage you to go to Art Glass Answers and read the various discussions on working in a basement.

Linda

DITTO.... I would agree with Linda on basement and special issues with ventilation and appliances.... Even IF I was not the one who wrote the "basic" article on AGA ....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=12&t=430

Dale

Ravenesque · #15 2010-01-20, 3:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellomoonglow

Hey! That same thing happens to me. I torch in the basement, have a huge fan, a custom made hood which is vented out the window that is directly above me. The "good" air window is 20' away but it's small. Gas furnace and hot water heater are also in the basement. And the hole for the sump pump is right beside me. I get dizzy and have a heavy feeling in my chest when I torch (used to torch, haven't in over a year due to ventilation issues). Last year I decided the hell with it, I'm pushing through, because i want to torch! After about 2 weeks of torching a few hours a night I started noticing during the day that I was frequently forgetting things and having a little difficulty with my verbalization. I'd say the wrong word or not be able to find the right word. DH and I decided it's due to the torching. I stopped, and after a few more weeks, I was fine.

We're moving in another year and 1/2, and one of my priorities is having a perfect studio set up. Until then, when it thaws out over here in Pennsylvania, this spring I'm going to torch in the garage. Double doors up!

Same here, one thing though, the garage - I had torched at someone's house once and that was the first time I had any reaction to torching. My eyes swelled and were bright red for days, I only made one small bead too!
The wind was blowing in my face and she didn't have anything to block the fumes or anything. I do not know how she does not feel ill from that.

To Linda and Dale, thanks for all your help, but as she said up there it's just really..it takes a long time to feel well after getting ill from this..I stopped torching 7 days ago and I feel like someone took part of my brain away, I cannot think or grasp things, among other issues.

SO lol, run on rambling...that said, I have been reading a lot, have been for years but more so now, I just don't know how to figure the correct makeup or anything. I'll start a new thread.

As of now until a job comes along, this is my only income, so it's really bad timing to have issues now after all these years.

Dale M. · #16 2010-01-20, 8:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenesque

Same here, one thing though, the garage - I had torched at someone's house once and that was the first time I had any reaction to torching. My eyes swelled and were bright red for days, I only made one small bead too!
The wind was blowing in my face and she didn't have anything to block the fumes or anything. I do not know how she does not feel ill from that.

To Linda and Dale, thanks for all your help, but as she said up there it's just really..it takes a long time to feel well after getting ill from this..I stopped torching 7 days ago and I feel like someone took part of my brain away, I cannot think or grasp things, among other issues.

SO lol, run on rambling...that said, I have been reading a lot, have been for years but more so now, I just don't know how to figure the correct makeup or anything. I'll start a new thread.

As of now until a job comes along, this is my only income, so it's really bad timing to have issues now after all these years.

Has something else changed in your studio besides just torch and height of torch below hood and your seating?

Dale